[Czilla9000]

As those of you who were here in late 2002 remember, Head-Fi was struck by a Virtual Dynamic's Interconnect/Power Cord craze. They were "the flavor of the month" between October 02 - December 02.

Then, for what ever reason, the craze wore off.

So I have few questions:


1. For those of you who bought Virtual Dynamic cables during the craze, are they still as incredible sounding as the time you first heard them? For the Nite/MasterSeries owners, do you still believe they are the best thing out there? Basically, has the ending of the craze changed your opinion about the cables?

2. What caused the downfall of the craze? Was it the exhaltation by Rick that his cables were blessed by God?


3. To those of you who have purchased VD cables in 2003/2/4, and did not witness the craze, what is your opinion of the cables?


4. Science Stuff: Virtual Dynamics claimed (and still does) to have a technology called "Dynamic Filtering". It is presumably this technology which is responsible for the gains in sonic performance by VD cables.

When Dr. Jude PhD so bravely and nobely dissected a VD cable (power cord), the shocker was a bunch of small blue pebbles found surrounding the dielectric and stuffing the VD cables.
As Jude found out, the small pebbles were ferrous-magnetic. He was able to pick them up with a magnet.

Presumably, these pebbles are/were pieces of iron (ferrite). Also, these small pebbles are what constitute "Dynamic Filtering" technology.

VD claims these pebbles work by dampening vibrations in the cables conductor and eliminate "Claucomb Friction".

The problem with this explanation is it does not make much scientific sense. Because of this, I prepose a different reason on why "Dynamic Filtering" works.

I think DF works through the fact the pebbles are magnetic. I am guessing the magnetic pebbles act as an EMI/RF shield and "Filter" out bad frequencies.

This also explains the difference in "fine"ness in the pebbles as you go up the VD line. For instance the MasterSeries incorporates "LiquidFine" Dynamic Filtering, while other VD cables have "UltraFine" DF.

The finer the pebbles the greater the coverage and the better the sound (?).

Thank you.

 

[markl]

Quote:

1. For those of you who bought Virtual Dynamic cables during the craze, are they still as incredible sounding as the time you first heard them? For the Nite/MasterSeries owners, do you still believe they are the best thing out there? Basically, has the ending of the craze changed your opinion about the cables?

Yes, still using the VD stuff. Since then I've tried two other interconnects to replace the VD References I'm using now, neither cable measured up. Tried 2 other power cords, again went back to the VD Reference power cord I have now. I came to the VD stuff (at least the ICs) after experimenting with around 12 different ICs/brands over the years at various price points. The Vd cables sound much better to my ears.

The VD Power 3 was the first aftermarket power cord I'd tried which (obviously as you may remember) pretty much blew my socks off. So I've tried virtually every power cord in the VD line so far and two other cables from other companies. I'm currently using the KAS Audio Primus on my Samuels HR-2, I think that's just a great combo from my small sampling. I still prefer the VD Reference PC on my source over the KAS Audio, however.

VD also has a technology called "Speed of Light" which is also a large magnet at the ends of their newer cables. The purpose of Dynamic Filtering is to reduce the potential for skin effect that comes from VD's use of such thick conductors).

I don't like like some of Rick & Co.'s wacky claims, but I sure like their cables. Given that the "science" behind cables is virtually non-existent anyway, any fancy geometry, fancy construction materials (i.e. gold wire), unusual treatments (cryo), shielding types, and choice of connectors (WBT, Neutrik, Eichmann bullet plugs) potentially falls into realm of the "unproven". Any claims that any manufacturer wants to make about any cable, it can be argued ultimately comes down to guesswork and hunches as to specifically how they affect sound quality. It's a shame that the guys at VD feel the need to use their religion (however sincerely felt) to market their cables. It's a potential turn-off.

The proof, however, is in the pudding, whatever the claims of the chef. Rick's cables sound great.

Mark
P.S. What is the point of this thread? It's clear from your tone that it's not like you are considering buying them. So why be a troll? Are you just bored today?

P.P.S. Who says the "craze" is over? The VD cables are now in much wider distribution than ever, you can buy them in many audio shops and many places on-line. Before they had to be ordered direct from VD in Canada.

 

[drewski]

Question 1- I still use VD cables- I still have about 8 pairs of VD power cables from power 3's up to the nites. I still think they are one of the best power cables out there. My buying these cables had nothing to do with the craze here because I had several VD cables before becoming a member of head-fi. There wasn't any craze when I got these.

Question 2- Part of what you call the "downfall" of the craze" is in part due to Rick's entry level pricing right now. The power 3 was a great way of getting into power cables. Also, his upgrade policies were very, very generous and it made it easy to move all the way up the line. Many, many people bought power 3's because they were something like $50 when they first came out. Now the Power 3 costs $200 and is not supposed to be discounted by the dealer, so people go straight to the used market. There is still a demand for these because I've sold Power 3's and Auditions recently for what I paid for them direct from Rick! Unfortunately, a lot of the people that I talk to want to upgrade to the David's, but can't afford to. Also unfortunate, as much as everyone loves Rick and his excellent customer service, most of us just can't justify the costs of replacing all of the new cables. I looked into a set of David's for my 2 channel system, and to recable would have cost me about $4K (2 sets interconnects, 3 power cords, and 1 set of speaker cables). Although Rick would give me a trade in value for my other cables, I still couldn't justify it. Like most others, I'm waiting for someone else to take the 50% depreciation and waiting to get some used now.

Question 3- Once again, I wasn't part of the "craze" and purchased because it was affordable way to try power cables. Sometimes it's hard to hear differences when you switch to something better- it's not until you take it away where you realize the full benefits of some products.

Question 4- I never did pay much attention to the technologies (maybe except for the croying treatment because Stan Warren told me that it really worked). If I understood some of this stuff, I'd be making my own power cables! But whatever technologies or "blessings" Rick puts in his cables, they are very good cables.

 

[Hirsch]

I continue to think the Master Series cables are the best interconnects and power cords I've ever heard. However, there are many interconnects and power cords I haven't heard. I may never hear some of them, either. I'm satisfied with the Master Series. It's got the combination of dynamics and detailing I was looking for. (Cardas Golden Reference didn't have the dynamics, and the VD Nites didn't have the focus, although both cables were very good). The Master Series put it all together for me. They are going to be in my system for a very long time, I suspect.

 

[Czilla9000]

Ok.....so the censensus seems to be by the current owners of the VD cables that they still think they are incredible.


MarkL - I thought you were using Nites and not the References. I guess I was wrong.

 

[Ebonyks]

Look czilla, we already know your opinion of VD cables, quit posting about the subject.

I don't think there's a single person on head-fi who actually believes all of the silly cable theory stuff that VD tries to sell to customers. It's all in advertising (and, as we can all agree, bad advertising)

By this I am in no way endorsing virtual dynamic cables (In fact, i'm really not a fan of them, but that's moot), nor am i going to play along in your guessing game as to what the real design ideas that rick of virtual dynamics uses in his cables.

Just stop this, really now

 

[ooheadsoo]

Hm, I just can't help thinking of VD when I see this stuff...

 

[Ebonyks]

Yeah, i'll always wonder what was passing through rick's mind when he realized what the acroymn for his company was...

 

[tortie]

Just checked VDs website... I had no idea these VDs were so expensive

 

[Czilla9000]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ebonyks Look czilla, we already know your opinion of VD cables, quit posting about the subject. I don't think there's a single person on head-fi who actually believes all of the silly cable theory stuff that VD tries to sell to customers. It's all in advertising (and, as we can all agree, bad advertising) By this I am in no way endorsing virtual dynamic cables (In fact, i'm really not a fan of them, but that's moot), nor am i going to play along in your guessing game as to what the real design ideas that rick of virtual dynamics uses in his cables. Just stop this, really now

What may I ask is wrong about asking people their opinions on cables?

ARG.....I am not try to make the cables look bad. People seem to think I am out to smear the reputations of cable companies.

What I am REALLY trying to do is isolate the variable that makes the VD cables sound good. As it stands I think it has to do with the ferrite powder acting as a ferrite EMI/RF filter. I am a fan of using ferrite filters as evidence of my using RadioShack Fusion cables that have ferrite chokes. (In a VERY recent thread a Head-Fier confessed his satisfation with using ferrite choked cables. People claim it roles off high frequencies......which it does - in the MegaHertz range. Also, if it does role off some frequencies it is not that big a deal. The Ety's, for instance, only go to 17,000 kHz and they sound great. However, I still feel ferrite is beneficial)

My explanation is a scientific objective rational conclusion based on known research.

If anything VD fans should be exhulting what I have said, because it explains that it is more than plausible the cables are working. What I am showing is that VD fans are not out of their minds.

Look.....just because a dude mentions science, and scientific proof, doesn't mean he is out to disprove things. The goal of science is truth.

EDIT: I was going to save this for later, but since the cards are on the table, I am working on a cable design myself which uses a form of EMI filteration. I wanted to know the opinions of VD users, to verify that filtration yields subjective results.

BTW, as of now, many other manufacteurs are using ferrite pebbles. PS Audio, for instance, is using them in their xStream Power Cords.

 

[Ebonyks]

The wording that you used clearly implies that you still have negitive reactions to VD, especially based on your extensive attacks on the invalid scientific theories presented by VD in the past. Regardless, i'll attempt to answer your questions:

1. Why do people like them? Because they're euphonically distorted, simliar to the way that tubes are. They're certaintly not true to your source, nor are they revealing. Ferrite beads are tradionally known for causing signal roll-off, which perhaps makes some systems sound better? it would eliminate harsh treble?

I'm just guessing at this point, i really have no clue

If you want my opinion on the subject, there are other companies more worthwhile trying to research than VD for cable ideas.95% of cables is marketing for what it's worth. Use large gauge wire (14+), high quality plugs, teflon dialetrical, and good shielding and you'll create a cable within reaching distance of the best out there.

Besides, there is very little about asking questions like this on a headphone forum that is scientific in any way

 

[markl]

Quote:

Why do people like them? Because they're euphonically distorted, simliar to the way that tubes are. They're certaintly not true to your source, nor are they revealing.

Not in all the systems I've tried them in. What the VD cables *don't* do, is they don't tip up treble, or add sharp jagged edges to sounds, that can be mistaken for "detail". I hate a "thin", reedy, brittle sound, it drives me crazy. Cables like that are witholding the meat of the music, they're all etched jagged bones. That kind of sound is also a negative for critical listening, it causes fatigue if you are relaxed and enjoying the music with eyes closed. But if you want something that will make you go "wow, listen to those cables" they aren't going to provoke that sort of reaction, they aren't gimmicky like that.

The sound they make is very clean, firm, flowing, and smooth (very "analog-y"), far from "distorted" or splashy, or hashy and grainy. They excel at soundstaging (it's huge), tone and timbre (sounds just right), and bass response (deep and "present"). I will say they are not the fastest cables on earth, and they do have a bit of warmth to them (which most people will find appealing anyway, especially with digital sources), and some other cables are better at image specificity, or placing sounds *exactly* in one location in space (but they can achieve this by shrinking the overall soundstage size, too). So no, VD cables are not perfect (what cable is?), but still the best I've heard so far overall. Quote:

Ferrite beads are tradionally known for causing signal roll-off, which perhaps makes some systems sound better? it would eliminate harsh treble?

???? So, they've done extensive study and measurement of cables using Dynamic Filtering have they? Can you please point me to these texts, I'd like to read them. Thanks.

Mark

 

[Ebonyks]

Markl, you're entitled to your beliefs on the sound of VD cables, and i'm entitled to mine. We've had this discussion before, and i don't feel like getting into another flame war. I believe your interpertation of the "VD sound" is wrong, and you believe mine is as well, so let's just leave it at that.

Furthermore, when i said that ferrite beads tend to filter out higher signals, i was refering to ferrite beads, not "dynamic filtering", or whatever the hell rick wants to call it, assuming that it is indeed refering to the ferrite powder that he puts in his cables.

 

[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally posted by Ebonyks 1. Why do people like them? Because they're euphonically distorted, simliar to the way that tubes are. They're certaintly not true to your source, nor are they revealing. Ferrite beads are tradionally known for causing signal roll-off, which perhaps makes some systems sound better? it would eliminate harsh treble?

Um. You HAVE heard the Master Series, before making this generic comment, I hope. I'd hate to think you were talking about cables you'd never heard. You do know that Rick uses different materials in each cable, so that the ferrite in the Power 3 might not be the same material found up the line, I hope.

What they do is actually unveil what the rest of the system is doing. My initial impression of the Master Series was that it was a bright cable. In conversation with Rick, he told me that the cable wasn't bright, but that the it was my source producing the highs. He further told me that I could eliminate the brightness using brass cones to couple the player to my shelf (making sure that a cone was under the transformer. This struck me as a bit nutty, but I did have a set of Mapleshade Surefeet here, and I tried them. No more brightness. He was completely correct. I bought more cones for other sources.

 

[Ebonyks]

I've never heard the master series, to your credit. My experences are based off a set of nites that i spent some time with.