Use of 1st. person plural in advertising
Mar 23, 2008 at 6:24 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 13

Jaska

Headphoneus Supremus
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I've noticed a very weird phenomenon over the last couple of years involving a peculiar grammatical (or other) preference for using the 1st. person plural "we" as opposed to the 1st. person singular "I" on web sites of certain members of the trade. While I will not mention any MOT sites in specific, all I will say is that it is well known that these are one-man shops.

So, while this obviously isn't any big deal, I just can't help but wonder if this is some new trend in marketing that I didn't know about. If I ran my own one-man shop and serviced muffler bearings, I certainly wouldn't advertise that "we" remove, clean, grind, and pack the bearings with grease before reinstalling them.
 
Mar 23, 2008 at 10:09 PM Post #3 of 13
^^ Post full of win.
 
Mar 23, 2008 at 10:17 PM Post #5 of 13
Most of the one man types of operations have assistants of some sort, even if it's their wife or kids helping with packaging and mailing out products.

I know for example, that Todd the Vinyl Junkie has a part time assistant who spends a couple of hours dealing with inventory and such after school. I met her when I was visiting Todd in Montana. I also know that Grace Samuels, Ray's lovely wife, helps him with sending out packages. I don't know for sure but I just can't imagine that Drew at Moon Audio does everything on his own; there are just too many details to keep track of.

I'm just tossing out examples that come readily to mind. So I think the use of "we" is probably legitimate in 90% of the cases, if for no other reason than to give a bit of credit where credit is due for the "small people" (as they would say in Hollywood) who are working behind the scenes.

If the main implication of your thread is to suggest that the used of "we" instead of "I" is an attempt at sales puffing (to make it look like a bigger business than it really is), I suspect that this might come into play but not really in a direct manner. It could simply be the case of a husband asking his wife, "Honey, what do you think sounds better here? I or we?"

Another possible explanation is that if an individual is in business under a trade name of some sort, he might believe that "we" is the grammatically correct word to use. In other words, how could Moon Audio rightfully use "I" since it's a company name? Again, just using an example that pops to mind.

In any case, I think its one of those situations where "we" have in front of "us" a distinction without a difference. (Even though I'm typing this response all by myself, I realize that there is an audience that I'm "talking" to and thus I can say "we have in front of us...".)
 
Mar 23, 2008 at 10:23 PM Post #6 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Capital R /img/forum/go_quote.gif
^^ Post full of win.


Whatever that means, I'm sure it isn't so nice.

I am asking a serious question here, as I honestly don't recall ever noticing any individuals outside of the scope of Head-Fi using "we" when they mean "I."

I don't know about you, but I take business seriously. If I wanted to promote my own products and services, I think it would be important to communicate clearly that I am the one responsible for designing and building products, as well as for standing behind them.
 
Mar 23, 2008 at 10:39 PM Post #7 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If the main implication of your thread is to suggest that the used of "we" instead of "I" is an attempt at sales puffing (to make it look like a bigger business than it really is), I suspect that this might come into play but not really in a direct manner. It could simply be the case of a husband asking his wife, "Honey, what do you think sounds better here? I or we?"


Thank you for the very thoughtful reply.

I still won't mention the specific MOTs I had in mind when I finally decided to write something about this subject, but I did actually already know about the at least occasional involvement of others in some of the businesses you cited.

Really, my point is more that these MOTs are artisans with very fine skills, and when all the work in the business is truly conducted by a single person, due credit should be taken. I didn't mean that this practice had any connection with "sales puffing." Actually, I think it could potentially have a negative effect on customers' perception. For example, I have a very good friend who's a violin maker, and a very good one. I have spent a lot of time reading the fascinating contents of his web site, and he is unwaveringly consistent in the use of the 1st. person singular when writing about his creations, and even his restoration services for that matter. He indeed works independently, and I believe if he made the mistake of suggesting otherwise through a poor choice of words, potential customers might easily be led to the misconception that he has apprentices or inexperienced trainees carrying out the work.
 
Mar 23, 2008 at 11:14 PM Post #8 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Whatever that means, I'm sure it isn't so nice.



He was just saying greenhorn's post is funny (or full of win/it's good).
wink.gif
 
Mar 23, 2008 at 11:46 PM Post #9 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thank you for the very thoughtful reply.

I still won't mention the specific MOTs I had in mind when I finally decided to write something about this subject, but I did actually already know about the at least occasional involvement of others in some of the businesses you cited.

Really, my point is more that these MOTs are artisans with very fine skills, and when all the work in the business is truly conducted by a single person, due credit should be taken. I didn't mean that this practice had any connection with "sales puffing." Actually, I think it could potentially have a negative effect on customers' perception. For example, I have a very good friend who's a violin maker, and a very good one. I have spent a lot of time reading the fascinating contents of his web site, and he is unwaveringly consistent in the use of the 1st. person singular when writing about his creations, and even his restoration services for that matter. He indeed works independently, and I believe if he made the mistake of suggesting otherwise through a poor choice of words, potential customers might easily be led to the misconception that he has apprentices or inexperienced trainees carrying out the work.



I see what you're getting at now. I suppose, more than anything, it's just a reflection of the state of the world in which we live. Not everyone these days (or probably ever, but I haven't lived forever so I can't say for sure) is a wordsmith, or even intellectually curious for that matter. So the choice of "I" or "we" is probably about as important to many otherwise successful, happy, and well balanced people, as the choice of whether to wear black or blue socks when they're getting dressed in the morning.

This is not to suggest either that, 1) they don't care much about how they come across in their advertisements or on their website, or that 2) you or I or anyone else who might notice this sort of thing and wonder what might be driving it, are in any sense "wrong" or "strange" to be concerning ourselves with things that are apparently not of great concern to them.

This has the potential of being a rather interesting topic, actually. At least for me. Don't know if many other people really think about these sorts of things.

What it suggests, instead (and just in my opinion), is that different people concern themselves with different things. I've known some extremely bright folks who could edit a website like you can't believe, and keep the inside of their cars looking completely spotless, but yet cannot decide what to do with their lives. They're bright, highly educated, personable, neat and clean and orderly, and have all of the outward appearances of being truly happy, and yet they don't know the first thing about what they really want in life.

I also know some of the sloppiest, ill mannered, rude, and uneducated people who have become enormously successful in life and are as happy as can be, no matter how many people they make miserable around them! They're focused and set in their ways and will stop at nothing to achieve whatever it is that they've set out to achieve with no concern whatsoever of doing things "right" and no real satisfaction out of being socially acceptable.

I suspect that the types of people who go into business for themselves in this kind of hobby are likely to fall somewhere in between the above two paragraphs of people. In other words, they are most likely neat, tidy, and detail oriented and thus are likely to take tremendous pride in getting the job done right in terms of the products they're producing or services they're offering. But their primary focus is likely to be on these technical aspects of their business. It might be difficult to find the time to get all of the details of their website and advertisements nailed down precisely.

Either that, or it's outside their realm of knowledge, experience, or even care. This is where is slips into the arena of the second paragraph above. In other words, their focus is on getting products out the door or providing the best possible service from a technical point of view. Having a singular focus is what has brought them the level of success they're now enjoying, and their inattention to "I" versus "we" (and by extension, a whole pile of other similar details) has not hindered them at all.

***

Off topic and completely non-audio, but I think it illustrates the point:

I've recently encountered an interesting example of this when searching for the right company to buy my first motorhome from. I have no doubt at all that I've made the right choice in Powerhouse Coach, which is largely a one man operation (although he employs about 15 people including some of his family members). But it's a "one man" operation in the sense that the idea was his, and his alone, and he started out by building one coach at a time as best he knew how. Today, 10 years later, his company is highly respected as one of the premier, boutique, custom builders in the motorhome industry.

But he still deals with all of his customers one on one, by phone, fax and email, and although he's the most honest, hard working, sincere and decent guy you'll ever come across, the written word is certainly not his forte' (but that's Ok, because it doesn't seem to hurt his business in any significant way).

Here's a link to the company website: Luxury Motor Coaches by PowerHouse Coach

As you'll see it's hard to find any serious fault with the company's products! They're built like tanks (over built, really) and are a completely different animal than you'll find in the more "cookie cutter" types of big brand name motorhomes. They're also priced right relative to the competition such that you can end up with a "serious" truck that look fantastic inside and out and is much more reliable (service-wise) and fuel efficient than anything twice its price!

So the company is bound to be successful because they're doing everything right and creating new value where it didn't exist before. They offer gizmos that no other company in the industry can even dream of offering like the self drive mechanism for their custom trailers or the lateral drive system for their custom coaches:

http://www.powerhousecoach.com/vdt1drive.wmv
http://www.powerhousecoach.com/vdd4latdrive.wmv

The customer is left with doubt about product quality or reliability or honesty and integrity of the company's founder. He's involved in everything and is completely committed to customer service. You can see that it's a labor of love for him and his family, and it's exactly the kind of company that you want to do business with.

But here's the catch: read through the material on the website and you'll see that it is filled with typos (mostly words that are 'sounded out' and spelled accordingly). For a new customer who just happens to stumble upon this website, that might be enough of a distraction to cause him/her to scratch this company off of his/her list, or to hesitate before picking up the phone to make that initial contact.

Do the typos on the website hurt the company? Hard saying. They're as busy as they want to be, and maybe even busier! They don't have any real intention of becoming much larger than they are now, even years down the road. So it's something that could be improved and it would be a relatively simple task to deal with, it's just that this isn't where the company's priorities lie.

Good, bad, or indifferent, that's the way it is, and this small "failure" in the communications process really isn't causing anyone to lose sleep at night. At times, I've wanted to print out every page and make hand corrections on each page myself, then hand them to the company's owner the next time I see him (to pick up my coach in a couple of weeks). But then again, that may be over stepping my bounds, and there is also something sort of quaint about it and I'd kind of miss the typos!
 
Mar 24, 2008 at 12:28 AM Post #10 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Wmcmanus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
there is also something sort of quaint about it and I'd kind of miss the typos!


That really is a great site! The Facts page turned out to be a very good read, with gems like this:

"The run of the mill mid size chassis 26 to 38 thousand pounds you can load 2 to 4.000 lb. including fuel and water
good luck with not overloading this coach"



I have frequent discussions about issues like this with my father (a publications editor), and some of your comments remind me of his when it comes to understanding that for certain types of people, getting the language right just isn't of any particular concern. I've also been in positions where I've tried to offer some editorial help to people, and the usual reaction has tended to be one of ambivalence, or even disdain.

In the end, I suppose what's most important to me is that I have taken enough time getting to know enough about the MOTs who inspired this thread to understand the nature of their respective businesses, and to know that I am dealing with "him" rather than "them" in certain cases.

By the way, which of the Powerhouse Coach models did you end up choosing? It would be a treat to own (or borrow!) one of those, I'm sure.
 
Mar 24, 2008 at 4:58 AM Post #11 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I am asking a serious question here, as I honestly don't recall ever noticing any individuals outside of the scope of Head-Fi using "we" when they mean "I."


It's common enough that there's a word for it: "nosism."

I think the main reason one man shops do it is to convey the impression that people are dealing with a business instead of a single person. I'd say that it is effective in accomplishing that. Of course, whether you like that or not is a matter of personal preference.
 
Mar 24, 2008 at 6:01 AM Post #12 of 13
Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaska /img/forum/go_quote.gif
That really is a great site! The Facts page turned out to be a very good read, with gems like this:

"The run of the mill mid size chassis 26 to 38 thousand pounds you can load 2 to 4.000 lb. including fuel and water
good luck with not overloading this coach"



Yup, that's what I was talking about. Yet, I can understand exactly what he's trying to say. One of his big selling points is that his coaches are serious trucks that can handle up to 80,000 pounds so it's almost impossible to overload them.

My coach is 38,000 pounds unloaded and the trailer he's making to go with it will be 17,000 pounds unloaded. If I wanted to put a big Caterpillar tractor in the trailer, I could do so and the coach wouldn't break a sweat! As it is, I'll have 10,000 pounds of vehicles in the trailer and maybe as much as 5,000 pounds of extra gear between the coach and trailer, for a total of 70,000 pounds. I'll still get 9-10 mpg if I drive around 60 mph. Most motorhomes have a towing capacity of 10,000 pounds and that would only be for short distances. Mine will be pulling close to 30,000 pounds everywhere it goes.

Quote:

I have frequent discussions about issues like this with my father (a publications editor), and some of your comments remind me of his when it comes to understanding that for certain types of people, getting the language right just isn't of any particular concern. I've also been in positions where I've tried to offer some editorial help to people, and the usual reaction has tended to be one of ambivalence, or even disdain.


This has been my general experience as well. Even when I've managed to clean something up for a friend, his/her gratitude is only with respect to the results achieved. The interest level for most people doesn't really extend to the process involved in achieving those results; they don't typically want to learn for themselves.

Quote:

In the end, I suppose what's most important to me is that I have taken enough time getting to know enough about the MOTs who inspired this thread to understand the nature of their respective businesses, and to know that I am dealing with "him" rather than "them" in certain cases.


True, but I think your points are still well taken.
Quote:

By the way, which of the Powerhouse Coach models did you end up choosing? It would be a treat to own (or borrow!) one of those, I'm sure.


I bought a used coach and have had them do some renovations, some of which were not yet completed when I put together my first ever You Tube video, here: YouTube - My Powerhouse Coach

The interior of the cab area looks much nicer now. They reupholstered everything with the same brown/taupe color leather that you see on the couch and dinette. So all 4 captains seats up front and the side walls in that area have the matching leather color, as well as the cover over the divider between the cab and coach areas.

They're also added 2 species wood doors to the cabinet up front. It's definitely getting there! Solar panels are being installed as well as a roaming wifi system, an in motion satellite TV system, and a 32' flat panel LCD in the bedroom.

Value-wise, I've saved quite a bit by buying used so I figured the upgrades were well worth it such that I'll be comfortable from day one, which will be in about 2 weeks!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trippytiger /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It's common enough that there's a word for it: "nosism."


Interesting word. Thanks for that.

Quote:

I think the main reason one man shops do it is to convey the impression that people are dealing with a business instead of a single person. I'd say that it is effective in accomplishing that. Of course, whether you like that or not is a matter of personal preference.


I agree with this. More likely than not, the attempt is simply to give the impression that it's a business and not just a person that you're dealing with and this is often based on the hope that it will take off and that ultimately there will be several employees, etc.
 
Mar 25, 2008 at 1:42 PM Post #13 of 13
This is a really interesting thread. I'm a particular fan of "one-man" operations for myself, but I had a question to pose, because I'm not always looking for that personal touch:

Do you have limits on what you will buy from a small operation?

Keeping it audio-related, I'm perfectly comfortable buying amplifiers or DACs from a small shop or builder, but for things like players/transports and headphones (speakers are an exception here), I prefer a trusted, "branded" product. Just wondering if others have similar feelings on this?

Off topic, Wayne, that RV is amazing. Do you have to get licensed for airbrakes/transport? That's a serious machine on the front end. I can't help but wonder if he'd do custom work using a classic frame Peterbilt or Eagle (have a bit of a thing for big-rigs), keeping the chunky motif throughout the cabin?

im_Peterbilt.jpg
 

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