[Pepito]

2 cents:

I've always been a proponent of "garbage in = garbage out" My quest for sources have ultimately led me to the Chord Hugo 2, I was previously running a Curious USB cable via/jitterbug out of a macbook pro. Now, I know there are a lot of cable naysayers, but USB cables are a whole 'nother story, I'm not touching this with a 10-foot pole in this thread.

Anyways, I was at first extremely skeptical of any of these jitter reducing devices, they truly seemed like snake oil to me at first. After doing a bit of reading on head-fi, and thus emptying my wallet more because what the heck an Audioquest Jitterbug is a relatively low-cost upgrade in our hobby. I instantly noticed a difference when I first plugged it into my chain (then was a Chord Mojo,) but I don't know if I liked it, it made the already warm Mojo sound extra aggressive (I also had Vega's at the time, talk about bass overload). I did some more reading on the interwebs and Rob Watts himself states that he hears differences with the Jitterbug when plugged into his chain (not a Mojo, Hugo 2 me thinks). Like I said, there are a lot of naysayers out there, but I can hear a difference and I'll let your ears be the judge of your own gear.

More audiophile rabbit-holing led me to the Uptone ISO REGEN and Uptone UltraCap LPS 1.2. I'm not gonna go over the specs in detail here but essentially it reduces noise and jitter from the crap that my Macbook produces. It's powered, unlike the AQ Jitterbug, and it's also 10x as expensive (including the LPS 1.2) Do I hear 10x the improvement? Hell naw, we are well into the law of diminishing returns at this level of headfilia, but screw that we are here for the soundssss.

My old chain: MBP > AQ Jitterbug+Curious USB cable > Chord Hugo 2.
My current chain: MBP > Uptone Iso Regen/LPS1.2 + micro-USBCP > Chord Hugo 2.

With the new upgrades, I instantaneously noticed a difference, and my first impressions were: goosebumps. The background became a lot darker. Separation/soundstage/imaging all improved. The highs were probably the first thing I noticed that sounded quite a bit better. The attack and decay on cymbals is unlike anything I have ever heard. Everything was just so much "tighter", the attack, sustain, decay, release, ugh. I then shifted my attention to the mids, same thing, the prrrrrrrat makes me go ughhhhhh moreeee. The individual snare hits, cymbals and ohhhh the sustain of the synth in Pendulum's - "9000 Miles," a track I've listened to thousands of times, but I think the synth touched me for the first time.

I've got a pair of EE Legend X's, and the bass actually tightened up quite a bit. I was getting quite a bit of fatigue when listening to techno and house via a PW Audio 1960's cable, but I've just finished listening to Fabric 77: Marcel Dettmann, and I'm about to throw on some more Fabric mixes The bass is probably the least improved upon area after initial listening, relatively.

I'm still waiting on a Curious cable to replace the stock Uptone one, as well as a Sonore DC cable, aaaaaand a set of PW Audio 1950's. Will update with more once everything is nice and burned-in.

 

[Zenvota]

as well as a Sonore DC cable,

The improvement that the quadrapole cable brings between the iso regen and ultracap is another pleasant suprise as another layer of noise gets removed and instruments begin to float ethereally in a black void. Its an excellent set of equipment and if you can have it power the actual usb receiver and/or i2s/spdif output it gets even better, for instance i have an amanero usb to i2s board thats bus powered by the iso regen, or you can have an iso regen and the usb receiver of a singxer su1 powered by a first ultracap and the output of the su1 by a second ultracap. The detail explosion when the ddc is ultracap powered is what drove me to topaz ac conditioning as I could hear the ac noise crystal clear at that point and finally getting rid of that I was left with the most detailed non fatiguing sound Id experienced. None of these changes are subtle.

 

[OctavianH]

I use at the moment the ISO Regen powered by a stock power supply and the improvement is sensible. The setup is as follows:

PC (gaming desktop) -> QED Reference USB A-B 3m connected to a USB3.0 port on the motherboard -> ISO Regen -> USPCB 90 degrees adapter -> Chord Qutest.

Now, even if the adding of ISO Regen improved a lot, and the effect was more visible after I switched the interconnects from DAC -> AMP to Chord Clearway, I still have the feeling I am a lot behind my optical conection to Cambridge CXC (CD transport). This means, I still need to make improvements on the USB input.

Question is: What would be a better approach for me?

1) change the cable to some more expenssive one like, for example Chord Signature USB? (Remember, I need 3m of it from the PC to the DAC)
2) add an LPS to the ISO Regen or add additional iGalvanic or decrapifiers in chain?
3) add a PCIex USB card on the PC and connect the USB cable on a port on that one instead of the one on the motherboard?
4) use a USB-COAX convertor and connect the convertor to the BNC input of the DAC? (ISO Regen can remain at the input of the convertor)
5) drink enough whiskey to forget about USB?

Any advice is welcomed!

 

[Zenvota]

I use at the moment the ISO Regen powered by a stock power supply and the improvement is sensible. The setup is as follows:

PC (gaming desktop) -> QED Reference USB A-B 3m connected to a USB3.0 port on the motherboard -> ISO Regen -> USPCB 90 degrees adapter -> Chord Qutest.

Now, even if the adding of ISO Regen improved a lot, and the effect was more visible after I switched the interconnects from DAC -> AMP to Chord Clearway, I still have the feeling I am a lot behind my optical conection to Cambridge CXC (CD transport). This means, I still need to make improvements on the USB input.

Question is: What would be a better approach for me?

1) change the cable to some more expenssive one like, for example Chord Signature USB? (Remember, I need 3m of it from the PC to the DAC)
2) add an LPS to the ISO Regen or add additional iGalvanic or decrapifiers in chain?
3) add a PCIex USB card on the PC and connect the USB cable on a port on that one instead of the one on the motherboard?
4) use a USB-COAX convertor and connect the convertor to the BNC input of the DAC? (ISO Regen can remain at the input of the convertor)
5) drink enough whiskey to forget about USB?

Any advice is welcomed!

My votes for the power supply(ultracap lps) and dc cable(star quad) between the power supply and iso regen.

 

[OctavianH]

So the power supply of the Regen and DC cable make such a big improvement? Very interesting, thanks for advice. Let's see what other say.

Forgot to mention: I still have that ugly problem: I have to restart ISO Regen every morning otherwise the DAC is not seen by the PC. I have not put the Isolation = NO. I am not sure if this is OK for the clock circuit but I have no other solution at the moment.

 

[nicholars]

Are there any measurements proving that these devices make a measurable difference?

I have seen one where some of these devices like the IFI or the Uptone reduced the noise floor on the USB slightly, but we are talking about -130db instead of -120db... So I don't think this would make any audible difference as the 120db was already far below any hearing levels... If it was something like -60db to -140db then yes that would be a big difference... but -120db to -130db not so much!

Unless you are having obvious problems with noise... Is there any proof these make an audible difference?

Maybe they do improve the sound, I don't know... Certainly they are interesting... But I have not seen any measurements confirming they do much?

 

[514077]

I use at the moment the ISO Regen powered by a stock power supply and the improvement is sensible. The setup is as follows:

PC (gaming desktop) -> QED Reference USB A-B 3m connected to a USB3.0 port on the motherboard -> ISO Regen -> USPCB 90 degrees adapter -> Chord Qutest.

Now, even if the adding of ISO Regen improved a lot, and the effect was more visible after I switched the interconnects from DAC -> AMP to Chord Clearway, I still have the feeling I am a lot behind my optical conection to Cambridge CXC (CD transport). This means, I still need to make improvements on the USB input.

Question is: What would be a better approach for me?

1) change the cable to some more expenssive one like, for example Chord Signature USB? (Remember, I need 3m of it from the PC to the DAC)
2) add an LPS to the ISO Regen or add additional iGalvanic or decrapifiers in chain?
3) add a PCIex USB card on the PC and connect the USB cable on a port on that one instead of the one on the motherboard?
4) use a USB-COAX convertor and connect the convertor to the BNC input of the DAC? (ISO Regen can remain at the input of the convertor)
5) drink enough whiskey to forget about USB?

Any advice is welcomed!

5 sounds great. But could you elabourate: PCIEX? What is it, please?

 

[OctavianH]

PCIex is PCI Express. It is a slot on the motherboard where I can add a USB3.0 card and stop using the USB ports of the motherboard for the Audio cables.
The benefit would/might be better performance / lower noisefloor for the USB transmission. It is an asumption from my side, a possible solution.

 

[Pepito]

Waiting for your feedback. Also it would be interesting to know if you experience my problem from here

Second day using the Iso Regen now, probably 10 hours of use on it so far. The Regen has never shut off on me, my BitPerfect app on the other hand...

 

[OctavianH]

Second day using the Iso Regen now, probably 10 hours of use on it so far. The Regen has never shut off on me, my BitPerfect app on the other hand...

Are you using the Isolation = NO or? Because it seems that the problem appears only with it turned on. Anyway, not a big deal to restart everyday the Regen. Maybe a newer version will come in the future with better hardware.

 

[Pepito]

Are you using the Isolation = NO or? Because it seems that the problem appears only with it turned on. Anyway, not a big deal to restart everyday the Regen. Maybe a newer version will come in the future with better hardware.

I'm running a Hugo so I have it set at the default position of: I

 

[ray-dude]

I use at the moment the ISO Regen powered by a stock power supply and the improvement is sensible. The setup is as follows:

PC (gaming desktop) -> QED Reference USB A-B 3m connected to a USB3.0 port on the motherboard -> ISO Regen -> USPCB 90 degrees adapter -> Chord Qutest.

Now, even if the adding of ISO Regen improved a lot, and the effect was more visible after I switched the interconnects from DAC -> AMP to Chord Clearway, I still have the feeling I am a lot behind my optical conection to Cambridge CXC (CD transport). This means, I still need to make improvements on the USB input.

Question is: What would be a better approach for me?

1) change the cable to some more expenssive one like, for example Chord Signature USB? (Remember, I need 3m of it from the PC to the DAC)
2) add an LPS to the ISO Regen or add additional iGalvanic or decrapifiers in chain?
3) add a PCIex USB card on the PC and connect the USB cable on a port on that one instead of the one on the motherboard?
4) use a USB-COAX convertor and connect the convertor to the BNC input of the DAC? (ISO Regen can remain at the input of the convertor)
5) drink enough whiskey to forget about USB?

Any advice is welcomed!

I have not yet experimented with 3 and 4 so I can't speak to those.

On my setup (NUC endpoint to Lush^2 to ISORegen to USPCB to Hugo mScaler to DAVE), I found that the Lush^2 USB cable was a pretty high impact upgrade for the price. I appreciate being able to tune the shield configuration to what sounds best in my setup (alas, every setup is a bit different when it comes to noise)

I did a lot of experiments with different power sources for the ISO Regen (stock cable, AA battery pack, laptop battery, LPS 1, LPS 1.2). I found the impact of the LPS 1.2 to be WAY beyond the impact that the ISO Regen (with stock power) had over a straight USB connection. I consider this a must have if you have a ISO Regen in your chain.

I recently got some Ghent DC cables and had a nice lift for a modest price, but the big mover is the LPS 1.2

As to why, in my setup the Hugo mScaler uses Vbus power from the USB side to power the galvanic isolation on the USB input. If you're obsessing on clean power to your DAC (and you should be with the Qutest...incredibly revealing and transparent DAC), the LPS 1.2 is a great way to get clean power to the USB side, to complement the regenerated USB signal.

As always when it comes to digital noise hygiene, your mileage will most definitely vary. I recommend giving a LPS 1.2 a shot and see how it works out for you (I now own two of them...fantastic things to have around as you chase down digital and power noise gremlins)

 

[Superdad]

Are you using the Isolation = NO or? Because it seems that the problem appears only with it turned on. Anyway, not a big deal to restart everyday the Regen. Maybe a newer version will come in the future with better hardware.

I'm running a Hugo so I have it set at the default position of: I

Hi gentlemen:
Thank you for all the nice words about our ISO REGEN and groundbreaking (figuratively and literally) UltraCap LPS-1.2.

I should clear something up about the single-DIP switch positions. (This is in the User Guide that come with the product.) They are:
--Down, the "1" (one) position = full USB galvanic isolation;
--Up, the "ON" position = galvanic isolation defeated.

So why would we choose such odd lettering for the switch? Because that part is the only single-postion, right-angle mount DIP switch we could find in the whole world, and that is the way it comes labeled. With switches, ON is most always the position where the contacts are closed/connected. And since all it takes to defeat the galvanic isolation of the ISO REGEN is to jumper the ground-planes of otherwise separate power/data domains, the switch is straddling the "moat" and ON is when the contacts close to join them.

Why is the switch needed in the first place?
a) Because true galvanic isolation of USB is a tricky thing. Such was never really meant to be as the USB standard never expected such and when there is a lack of much ground reference on one side or the other (laptops, bus- or battery-powered DACs, other things floating), things can get a bit funny.
b) The Silanna high-speed galvanic isolator chip that we use is fussy, far from perfect part. It does not like to see very long or out-of-spec USB cables at its input (though ISO REGEN can drive ANY cable with its full amplitude output from the USB3.1 hub chip we employ), and static charge can build up on its input side, which when released can cause the data connection to briefly drop (often requiring something to be reset).

So maybe 10% of ISO REGEN user find it more convenient to use our piece with the isolation feature defeated. It accounts for perhaps 15-20% of the overall benefit of the device (extraordinary signal integrity, impedance-match, and ultra-low-jitter clocking are still working their magic), so there is still much to enjoy with the GI defeated.

And by the way, ISO REGEN is not alone with its issues due to the limitations of the (now-discontinued) Silanna ICE08USB isolator chip. This part is also used in iFi Audio's iGalvanic product, and while they provide a switch with 3 settings, reports seem to indicate that few people are able to use that device reliably with its switch in the full-isolation, center position.

I don't hang out here at Head-Fi much (I think most of you know where my home-base is), but I do watch this thread and will try to answer questions when I can.

Hope you all are enjoying springtime. I would except that spring allergies make me want to scratch out my eyeballs!

Best,
--Alex C.
UpTone Audio LLC

 

[OctavianH]

I have not yet experimented with 3 and 4 so I can't speak to those.

On my setup (NUC endpoint to Lush^2 to ISORegen to USPCB to Hugo mScaler to DAVE), I found that the Lush^2 USB cable was a pretty high impact upgrade for the price.

I am curious to see why a USB cable at the input of the ISO Regen has so big impact on the sound. Usually we care about isolation and shielding at the output where in theory the USB signal is regenerated. This is why I am in doubt if I need to upgrade the already decent QED Reference USB cable to a better one or just focus on the regeneration and what happens after the signal is filtered.
I am really surprised about your answer, but many thanks. I will consider both options: a better cable from PC -> ISO Regen and also a better power supply for the Regen.

 

[ray-dude]

I am curious to see why a USB cable at the input of the ISO Regen has so big impact on the sound. Usually we care about isolation and shielding at the output where in theory the USB signal is regenerated. This is why I am in doubt if I need to upgrade the already decent QED Reference USB cable to a better one or just focus on the regeneration and what happens after the signal is filtered.
I am really surprised about your answer, but many thanks. I will consider both options: a better cable from PC -> ISO Regen and also a better power supply for the Regen.

I want to reiterate that your mileage will definitely vary! All I can do is share my experiences and hope it helpful for ideas to try out in your setup. Digital and noise gremlins are crazy making. While I'm very confident you (or others) would hear something similar in my living room, I have no idea if it would have an impact in yours. The great news is that folks like Alex and Peter have very generous "try in home" arrangements, and are very supportive of finding something that works for you.

Based on what I've heard in my system, I would suggest you definitely start by auditioning an LPS 1.2. USB cable tweaks had a much smaller impact for me.

To the "how can this be happening" question, that is the right question. I've been doing a lot of experiments on the digital side (end point OS/SW, power, cabling, regenerators, etc). The consistent thread I am finding is that anything that reduces "work" on the USB chain improves the spatial detail I alluded to earlier (signal integrity, RF noise, timing, etc).

The Lush^2 does a great job for me (spatial imaging, reduced fatigue, etc), but what matters is how all the pieces in the chain and playing off each other. As an example, I hear a significant step up in spatial height and depth resolution when I put two ISO Regen's in series. Is this due to something happening at the PHY receiver chipset level, some sort of induced noise? No idea, but the impact is pretty clear. Paradoxically (yet consistent with the "reduce work" hypothesis), the more I do to scrub my digital chain upstream of the ISO Regen, the less of an impact a 2nd ISO Regen in series has.

Curious findings, but pointing to some of the ideas and tweaks that I'm currently experimenting with. Much more to do and much more to learn.