[Deviltooth]

I like the concept though I'm disappointed the results are only available in 'clear'.  I wonder if Ultimate Ears is planning to release any new models sometime soon....

 

[Aero Dynamik]

I’m afraid that this post will be somewhat off topic, but I would like to take the opportunity to counter some of Jude’s arguments about custom in-ear monitors, as I hope it will be beneficial to the community in general and to inexperienced Head-Fi’ers in particular. I hope I’ll be excused!

Quote from Jude’s video:
“For the last several years the popularity of custom fit in ear monitors in the Head-Fi community has grown substantially and it continues to grow. Why are they so popular on Head-Fi? I think first and foremost because of performance, sound quality. To my ears some of the top custom in-ears are some of the best headphones I’ve heard, independent of form factor. Now of course the comfort advantage is that come with custom fit in-ear monitors also play a huge role in their popularity. Now in my opinion, universal fit in-ear monitors, the kind that’ll fit almost anyone, the kind that you’re used to using foam or silicone ear tips have gotten better and better over the years. And two of my favourite universal fit in-ear monitors - the Shure SE846 and the Sennheiser IE800 - these are phenomenal performers, and no question, to my ears these top universal fit in-ear monitors are starting to knock on the doors of the best customs in terms of their sound quality. Still though, in comparison to my very best custom in-ear monitors - namely the FitEar MH334 customs, ahh, the Westone ES50s, the JH Audio Roxanne, and the In-Ear Reference Monitors - even the best of the universal fit ear phones I’ve heard, don’t quite reach the best customs in terms of fidelity.

Musicians have been wearing custom in-ears for years and we audio enthusiasts have since discovered the fidelity they can offer. So with the sound quality advantages, with the comfort advantages, why isn’t everyone buying custom in-ear monitors? Well, there are some key disadvantages too. To start there’s price. The top of the line custom in-ear monitors you see on this table range in price from around 900 dollars to over 2000 dollars. So going for bust with a top of the line in-ear monitor can get expensive. Also, buying custom in-ears is a more involved process. To buy them you can’t just go into a store, bunk down your money and walk out of the store with them. It’s a much more involved purchase process than that. For custom in-ears you have to first go to a qualified audiologist to get silicone impressions made of your ears and ear canals, which by the way averages around 50 bucks and then you send those silicone impressions to the manufacturer, and then several weeks or several months later you receive the final product. If you’re the type who absolutely must have instant gratification you may find that buying custom in-ears is a bit agonising because of the wait.”

Jude is careful to point out that the opinions he presents aren’t undeniable objective facts but personal. He uses expressions such as “I think”, “to my ears”, “in my opinion”, and so on. Still I would expect that inexperienced Head-Fi’ers perceive Jude’s personal opinions as more or less objective facts; that CIEMs (custom in-ear monitors) in general have better sound quality and are more comfortable than UIEMs (universal in-ear monitors). So why do I think that? Well, Jude is – for many good reasons - an authority, the founder of Head-Fi, an Administrator and has large number of followers and supporters. If the president of the United States says he will combat the terrorists of the Islamic State it has a completely different meaning than if a five year old with a toy gun says the same. Hence, I believe those with no experience of CIEMs will take for granted that CIEMs in general will sound better and are more comfortable than UIEMs. However, this is not my experience at all, and I know that I’m far from alone.

Being the authority he is, it really wouldn’t hurt for Jude to point out that there are other authorities on Head-Fi that do not share his opinions about CIEMs at all, and challenge the viewers of his video to do some research. BTW, I do not consider myself to be one of those authorities.

From my experience of CIEMs the only potential advantage that CIEMs can offer is better isolation than UIEMs. However, not even once does Jude mention isolation in his video. In all other respects I find CIEMs to be either equivalent to, or inferior to UIEMs.

Unlike the acrylic artificial ear canals of CIEMs, biological ear canals are very intelligently designed when it comes to transporting sound waves in the most favourable and natural way to the ear drums. However, for deformed ear canals I guess CIEMs could function as a hearing aid and thereby improve sound quality. So, with the somewhat shallow fit provided by UIEMs – not unlike over ear and on ear headphones – UIEMs are able to provide a more natural flow of sound waves to the ear drums than CIEMs. Actually, I’ve never heard any clinical arguments as to why CIEMs in general should be superior in sound quality to UIEMs, and I believe the simply reason is that there aren’t any.

Comfort, sound and isolation of CIEMs (at least in my experience) depend on the position of the facial muscles and the body as a whole. I see a possibility that people with no previous experience of CIEMs may be lead to believe that CIEMs are the be‑all and end‑all in IEM design. For those I think it may be of value to know that acrylic CIEMs are rigid, very rigid (think glass), while ear canals are very flexible. This, at least for me, limits the use of CIEMs. As soon as I move my facial muscles (like when smiling) or deviate too much from the position of the body as it were when the impressions were made, like when laying down on my back in bed (my preferred position when listening to music), the shape of the ear canals changes and consequently affects the isolation, sound and comfort. I would say that (at least for me) CIEMs are ruled out whenever I’m not keeping my head in the upright position it was when the impressions were made. In this respect I find the flexibility of UIEMs to be a major advantage. So, these days I always go for UIEMs.

Based on my own experience I would guess UIEMs would be the best solution for most people, also considering a substantially higher resale value. Conversely, for those having trouble with UIEMs for one or another reason or suspect they don’t get the best possible sound because of their anatomy, then by all means do try CIEMs. However, don’t expect certain success or some implicit magic CIEM superiority, because there just isn’t any.

 

[Aero Dynamik]

I have a question for Jude. In your video you state the following: "For the last several years the popularity of custom fit in-ear monitors in the Head-Fi community has grown substantially and it continues to grow". How do you know that? It there some way you measure it, or is it simply a personal assessement? I'm curious, because my personal assessment FWIW is that the focus more and more has shifted towards the resent entry of many TOTL UIEMs such as the ones you mention in your video, Shure SE846, Sennheiser IE800, FitEar ToGo! 334, AKG K3003, Tralucent 1plus2, and so on.

 

[jude]

  I have a question for Jude. In your video you state the following: "For the last several years the popularity of custom fit in-ear monitors in the Head-Fi community has grown substantially and it continues to grow". How do you know that? It there some way you measure it, or is it simply a personal assessement? I'm curious, because my personal assessment FWIW is that the focus more and more has shifted towards the resent entry of many TOTL UIEMs such as the ones you mention in your video, Shure SE846, Sennheiser IE800, FitEar ToGo! 334, AKG K3003, Tralucent 1plus2, and so on.

 
Mostly personal assessment, and also based on conversations with manufacturers. When I think back to when I got my first customs (I think it was back in 2006), the number of people with them now--not to mention the variety of models available--is no doubt much higher.
 
That said, I do agree that the popularity of high-end universals is surging, and the numbers probably favor them--they're so much easier to buy.
 
That was part of my point: It'll take greater ease and quickness in acquiring them before customs can have more mainstream appeal.

 

[Deviltooth]

In my personal opinion customs ARE more comfortable.  However my ear anatomy features small ear canals that are both straight and don't change much when I open my mouth.  If you have a good audiologist he can quickly check your canals for you.  If they deform dramatically when you move your jaw/sing et al... then you might not retain a perfect seal where someone who's ear canals change little does.
 
The above informs a very important point: You must get great quality impressions AND the company manufacturing the customs must do a competent job.  If these to factors don't align you can wind up with CIEMs you think fit but they could be better.  I've had this experience myself.
 
One other thing: Some people prefer acrylic, some prefer silicone.  This can also factor into CIEM comfort.  Alas, this seems to be a 'you need to try it to know' detail.

 

[MuZo2]

  I’m afraid that this post will be somewhat off topic, but I would like to take the opportunity to counter some of Jude’s arguments about custom in-ear monitors, as I hope it will be beneficial to the community in general and to inexperienced Head-Fi’ers in particular. I hope I’ll be excused!

Its not just comfort and isolation which are pros of CIEM against an IEM.
 
All IEM are designed to deliver a certain sound characteristic , FR. Now when they are designed or tuned this is done in relative to reference plane. An IEM insertion depth can drastically change the sound for UIEM.
 
It is known that, to avoid the occlusion effect of IEMs(including custom-moulded ones) and hearing aids, you should fill up your external ear canal till the 2nd bend(approximately 1/2 of the external ear canal length), where the bony part is. Furthermore, that's very likely the depth you can achieve the tonal accuracy.
 
So CIEM guarantees above and thats why you can expect better results with CIEM.
 
You can do more reading over here

 

[obsidyen]

CIEMs are just a fad if used just for listening to music. Unless you're a musician performing on stage that requires absolute isolation, there's no need for CIEMs. Universals are far more flexible and high-end universals sound just as good as, if not better, than high-end CIEMs. Obviously there's no way cheap CIEMs can sound as good as TOTL universals.

 

[ZMan2k2]

I saw the video Jude posted, and was like, WOW!  Must have.  I would get the UE 11, because I'm a basshead, and they are designed with a sub-low driver.  But reading some of the comments in the thread here, now I'm thinking I may look at something like the Shure SE846, or stick with my Sony XBA-H3's.  I haven't even heard the Sony's yet, they're supposed to arrive today.  I'm just a junkie, and Head-fi feeds my addiction too much.  I have to stop somewhere, and I'm not sure where to stop, I'm just too easily swayed between what the best is too often.  MUST STOP!  WALLET CAN'T TAKE MUCH MORE! 

 

[russxdrums]

Ok... I'm glad to hear that I agree with some of the cognoscenti.
I own (ciem) UE7's and (uiem) Etymotic ER4's. Once I found out about the Comply foam tips for the uiem's, the ER4's blew the UE's out of the water in comfort, isolation, and fidelity. I'm a drummer and have very serious isolation needs. The hard plastic ciems didn't even come close to giving me the isolation I need. 
Sorry UE. Your customer service is SO great. You did a mold re-do for me. But I have to be honest. I was never happy with the sound or the fit.

 

[mollusk]

I have had the UE10 pro for at least a decade and the JH16 pro for a couple of years. I took delivery of 3D printed UERMs last week. The fit is perfect and obviously superior to my previous purchases. I think this technology will become the industry standard rather soon.

 

[fzman]

I agree that generalizations are usually 'iffy' at best, but for me, customs work better in virtue of the better fit.  I have very oval and curved ear canals, and cannot get a proper or even decent fit on any of a number of very good universls because of their shape, or for lack of big enough tips.
 
"Off the rack" is not necessarily better if you are 6' 10"  or 3' 6" and male......   'One size fits all' is only the name of a Zappa album.
 
As for price and value, and specific sonic preferences.....