[Spyro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcpk /img/forum/go_quote.gif That's very interesting, where did you find that out?

I may stand corrected. Etymotic states it is a patent pending "moving coil" base driver (dynamic?) but doesn't call it either a dynamic or a ba-type.

So I guess it is different than the Grado and Orotron.

 

[elnero]

I’ll make a contribution to the thread. Here’s my opinion on the IEM’s I’ve owned. I’ll preface this with I’ve owned these over the period of quite a few years, I was a relatively early adopter of the E500’s (Pro designation of SE530’s) upgrading from Shure E4’s. I’m quite certain that over the period of time my tastes as well as the IEM’s have evolved. Initially because of my sensitivity to sibilance I leaned towards IEM’s with a bit softer, sometimes rolled off treble with a warmer overall signature. I think I have evolved to preference for a more balanced signature with an emphasis on proper weight and tone.

SE530’s

I Probably owned these the longest but it’s also been the longest since I’ve heard them so my recollections are a bit fuzzy.

Strengths: Nice mids, bass and tone, good detail and sense of space.
Weaknesses: Treble is a bit laid back and depending on tips could still have some exaggerated sibilance.

Sold these mainly because of the old cable cracking problem which I believe has since been resolved.

Etymotic ER4’s

I have never owned these but have borrowed them for a couple of extended listens.
Strengths: Detail retrieval
Weakness: Too lean for my tastes and overall a bit too etched sounding.

Sleek Audio SA6’s

I suppose their status as “top-tier” is debatable but I’ll include them anyway as I think they have a lot to offer.

Strengths: Tunable sonic signature via Sleeks VQ system. Generally they offer decent balance and detail although possibly a step behind. Even with the ++ treble I wasn’t able to bring out any exaggerated sibilance.
Weaknesses: Although they extend very nicely even with the + bass they tend to lack a bit of weight by comparison to some other contenders.

In my mind these nestled in as a nice in-between of the ER4’s and E530’s.

Klipsch Image X10’s

I really liked these IEM’s with a caveat, they only really worked for me with one tip.

Strengths: With the right tip these have a really nice sound that rivals my favs. Balanced towards the warm side with just slightly laid back treble, bass is very impressive for such a small IEM and it doesn’t color the mids. The real strength of though is the mids and the overall tone which just feels right.
Weaknesses: This balance and sonic signature was only ever achievable with the bi-flange ear gels inserted fairly deeply. Otherwise the balance kind of falls apart becoming a bit too treble dominant with some excess sibilance and lacks that special tonal quality. Overall because those tips seemed change things so much I’m not even sure if anyones even heard the same things out of these as I did.

It’s really too bad that these only worked with the one tip as that tip also caused irritation in my ears and even though I gave them a good long try I just couldn’t get used to it.

Westone 3’s

I only owned these for a short period of time and my recollection of their overall sonic character is VERY vague.

Strengths: I do remember these seeming to have better detail than any IEM I’d had pervious experience with and I also remember imaging being good.
Weaknesses: I had a terrible time finding tips that didn’t cause excess sibilance and when I did those tips irritated my ears. I also had the cable unravel and had to get a replacement pair.

Sennheiser IE8’s.

I borrowed a pair of these and compared them with the Westone 3’s before I bought them. At the time of the comparison I had a hard time choosing which I preferred but ultimately chose the IE8’s because the tips I was using (Complys if I remember correctly) didn’t irritate my ears.

Strengths: Tone and soundstage.
Weaknesses: Bass is too just much and pollutes the midrange. Highs are bit too laid back and the cord drove me crazy, it cinch wouldn’t stay tight and the cables wouldn’t stay over my ears.

For whatever reason it seems to me like the pair I borrowed had a bit better balance than the pair I owned. I had thought from my audition that I would be able to live with them but ultimately the coloration really started to get to me.

Ultimate Ears Triple.Fi’s

I initially had a love/hate relationship with this IEM. When I first borrowed my friends pair (the pair I now own) listening with Comply tips I loved their bass on certain tracks but overall the mids were too recessed, they were too dry sounding and the treble bordered on being to excessive. Borrowing them again with the Null Audio cable changed that perception though. Therefore I’ll separate the strengths and weaknesses into two sections, with and without the Null Audio cable. It should be noted that all impressions are via Comply tips.

Stock Strengths: Bass, songs like Muse’s “Super Massive Black Hole” have impact I’ve not heard from another IEM. Detail is also exceptional.
Stock Weakness: Mids are too recessed with vocals getting lost in some instances. Treble bordering on being too hot and an overall dry presentation that outside of those songs with impact lacks involvement.

Null Audio Strengths: Mids and treble are brought into line with the bass so that the overall balance is near to perfect for my preferences without sacrificing detail or soundstage.
Null Audio Weakness: Still a bit on the dry side and tonally they lack a bit compared to my HF-2’s and my recollection of the X10’s with the bi-flange.

It should be noted that the Null Audio cable is an early version and I have no idea if it is reflective of their current offerings. It is unwieldy and a pain, it never wants to totally unwind and it’s stiff as ole heck. I use it mainly at my desk at work so it’s generally not much of an issue.

I’m very, very happy with sonics from the Null Audio cabled Triple.Fi’s, I can’t imagine getting much better without making the leap to the JHAudio 13’s although I my interest has been piqued by the Turbine Pro Coppers and the Ortofon’s, I’m just not sure at this point if I want to spend the money to find out if they improve on the Tri.Fi’s.

As I’ve mentioned earlier, I don’t really like the idea of placing these into any kind of ranking or tier, I believe all the ones I’ve mentioned are of a similar quality. Ultimately personal preference is going to play the biggest part in where a person feels they should be ranked.

 

[JeFFz]

Will comment on the tf10

Strengths : Good highs and lows, very detailed and clear. Soundstage is pretty good just that it lacks in width. Liked the looks of the tf10.

Weaknesses : recessed mids. the bass is too accurate and tight for my liking which rolls off to early. Not really as engaging as my previous few IEMs. It just doesn't have the impact to get me humming together with the song.
The isolation of these phones are not that great either while I am having a good seal. Kind of troublesome to fit them into your ears.

Sound Signature : V shaped.

Notes : Well the tf10 is still an enjoyable phone, just that most of my songs are more focused on vocals, which in the end doesn't sound that great with the tf10. In my opinion, these phones will be worth it at around 250-300 USD but not at the MSRP. Whether is it top-tier i can't comment on that as i haven't listened to any other higher end IEMs.

Furthermore, with the recent amazon sale, the overall expectation dropped together with the price. To most people, when they were still at original price, they were top-tier. Now at the current market price, they don't sound that great? Its all psychological.

Well I'm eyeing at the Ortofon e-q7 now, would buy it when i have the chance.

 

[bcpk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcpk /img/forum/go_quote.gif The RE0s' popularity increased tenfold when they were reduced to $80.

I'm just gonna keep repeating myself. I expect head-fi members to be more discerning than to be fooled by a pricetag.

 

[rawrster]

^
x2 I agree with that and RE0 is a good example of it

@average joe: It might just be a good idea to take out the top tier and near top tier as I think at the majority of this range it's mostly preference anyway.

 

[average_joe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeFFz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Will comment on the tf10 Strengths : Good highs and lows, very detailed and clear. Soundstage is pretty good just that it lacks in width. Liked the looks of the tf10. Weaknesses : recessed mids. the bass is too accurate and tight for my liking which rolls off to early. Not really as engaging as my previous few IEMs. It just doesn't have the impact to get me humming together with the song. The isolation of these phones are not that great either while I am having a good seal. Kind of troublesome to fit them into your ears. Sound Signature : V shaped. Notes : Well the tf10 is still an enjoyable phone, just that most of my songs are more focused on vocals, which in the end doesn't sound that great with the tf10. In my opinion, these phones will be worth it at around 250-300 USD but not at the MSRP. Whether is it top-tier i can't comment on that as i haven't listened to any other higher end IEMs. Furthermore, with the recent amazon sale, the overall expectation dropped together with the price. To most people, when they were still at original price, they were top-tier. Now at the current market price, they don't sound that great? Its all psychological. Well I'm eyeing at the Ortofon e-q7 now, would buy it when i have the chance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rawrster /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ x2 I agree with that and RE0 is a good example of it @average joe: It might just be a good idea to take out the top tier and near top tier as I think at the majority of this range it's mostly preference anyway.

Just a quick note (because that is all I have time for right now)...

What JeFFz wrote would lead me to believe that the TF10 isn't top-tier, and maybe not even near-top-tier.

I do think there are a few IEMs that when compared to the rest are better than others in the same price and do more right. Sure, you are always going to have people pulling for their favorite and yelling when it is not in the top-tier, just near-top-tier. Especially if they have not heard the true top-tier. I am looking forward to hearing if I think the e-Q7 is truly better than my others, as I have been lead to believe from many posters. It makes sense it would/could be, though.

And the Copper doesn't do anything wrong and does do bass extremely well, therefore it is top-tier IMO. It has they dynamics the RE252 lacks, although the 252 does have a little more detail and better space. It makes the IE8 sound muddy, but lacks the same ability to throw a huge soundstage. So, I am somewhat struggling with that one, but for now, it is there.

And thank you everyone for your contributions.

And shigzeo, ClieOS, James444, and others that have tons of experience with high end universals, feel free to add your opinions. I will try to compile the info on a daily basis.

 

[LeonWho]

Hello everyone!

I'm looking for a recommendation.

I have the TF10, and while I do enjoy its soundstage and bass, the mids are far too recessed for me (coming from an Audio-Technica/Grado standpoint).

What's a top-tier IEM that has the TF10's bass (a little less is okay too) while having forward (or at least not recessed) mids?

Also, I've tried the ER4S, and while I liked the amount of detail they pumped out, they were a bit too lean and the bass was too meager.

Thanks,
Leon

 

[average_joe]

My #1 recommendation is the CK90Pro if you don't mind removing the foam and maybe putting a little back in.

Or the Copper, but they are dynamic and not as detailed as many BAs, but offer much better smoothness, awesome bass, and good treble extension.

 

[barleyguy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcpk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hi joe. Thanks for the chart. Just a tip, though - you would be better off saving the image as a GIF or PNG. They deal with simple-colour images better than JPEG compression.

PNG would be the best. It does lossless compression of text better than either GIF or JPEG. It doesn't work on old browsers, but hopefully people coming here have recent browsers.

Graphics aren't searchable or cuttable though. It would be far better to just use HTML table tags.

-----------

More on the original topic, I'd like to add another vote for the W3 and the X10. They are my two favorite universals out of the many I've heard, though of course I haven't heard everything.

I'm a soundstage junkie. The W3 and X10 have some of the largest soundstage I've heard in an IEM.

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonWho /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello everyone! I'm looking for a recommendation. I have the TF10, and while I do enjoy its soundstage and bass, the mids are far too recessed for me (coming from an Audio-Technica/Grado standpoint). What's a top-tier IEM that has the TF10's bass (a little less is okay too) while having forward (or at least not recessed) mids? Also, I've tried the ER4S, and while I liked the amount of detail they pumped out, they were a bit too lean and the bass was too meager. Thanks, Leon

The Grado GR8 has the best midrange of any IEM I have ever heard and I have owned SE530 twice for a period of about 2 1/2 years. It has the transparency of ER4P with a good 25% more bottom end and a MUCH more natural harmonic sound. I never understood what a "boxy" sounding IEM meant until I heard the GR8. Now I see how most all of my other IEM's sounded "boxy".

 

[playingwithfire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LeonWho /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hello everyone! I'm looking for a recommendation. I have the TF10, and while I do enjoy its soundstage and bass, the mids are far too recessed for me (coming from an Audio-Technica/Grado standpoint). What's a top-tier IEM that has the TF10's bass (a little less is okay too) while having forward (or at least not recessed) mids? Also, I've tried the ER4S, and while I liked the amount of detail they pumped out, they were a bit too lean and the bass was too meager. Thanks, Leon

W3 is basically a more refined TF10 IMO, mid is still not forward(or even on par with bass and treble, but it's better than TF10)

 

[Young Spade]

Wow. Well after reading all of the posts here I can safely say that there is a lot of controversy over the overall top IEMs. I agree and disagree with a lot of things said here; most being the classification of a "Top Tier" IEM. A lot of people stated that it's not top if other IEMs did most things better... or that they had to have some clean advantage to make them Top Tier. IMO with this logic you can't really have a top can you? I mean yea you can have a top general class such as the TF, IE8, SE530... etc. (just pulled those out for example) but I mean they all (for the most part) have a different sound signature right?

I only have and have listened to the PFEs and Triple.Fi 10s on my equipment and couldn't be happier with the SQ I'm getting out of my Triple.Fis. From what I'm seeing it's kinda like comparing top cars. Sure you have the Ferrari and Lamborghini but which is better? Better in my eyes could definitely not be "better" in someone else's; same with IEMs.

Meh, basically what I'm saying is that A) We all hear differently, B) We all listen to different songs, C) We like different sound signatures...so unless we all listen to the same song on the same equipment with the same headphones.... how much more valid is my opinion of what is "good" than someone else's?

Just my 2 cents after reading a lot of what's posted here. Feel free to comment or criticize what I said, I really like hearing your guys' point of views on the whole situation. This thread is a very good read even though I don't think we have a definite standpoint on the whole situation.

 

[semisight]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Young Spade /img/forum/go_quote.gif Wow. Well after reading all of the posts here I can safely say that there is a lot of controversy over the overall top IEMs. I agree and disagree with a lot of things said here; most being the classification of a "Top Tier" IEM. A lot of people stated that it's not top if other IEMs did most things better... or that they had to have some clean advantage to make them Top Tier. IMO with this logic you can't really have a top can you? I mean yea you can have a top general class such as the TF, IE8, SE530... etc. (just pulled those out for example) but I mean they all (for the most part) have a different sound signature right? I only have and have listened to the PFEs and Triple.Fi 10s on my equipment and couldn't be happier with the SQ I'm getting out of my Triple.Fis. From what I'm seeing it's kinda like comparing top cars. Sure you have the Ferrari and Lamborghini but which is better? Better in my eyes could definitely not be "better" in someone else's; same with IEMs. Meh, basically what I'm saying is that A) We all hear differently, B) We all listen to different songs, C) We like different sound signatures...so unless we all listen to the same song on the same equipment with the same headphones.... how much more valid is my opinion of what is "good" than someone else's? Just my 2 cents after reading a lot of what's posted here. Feel free to comment or criticize what I said, I really like hearing your guys' point of views on the whole situation. This thread is a very good read even though I don't think we have a definite standpoint on the whole situation.

I can agree with most of this. Especially when people aren't comparing apples to apples, like with triple driver BA phones and dynamic phones. I don't think any of the IEMs on the list have any readily apparent sound flaws (it's why they're there).

FWIW, if the RE252 is up there the RE0 should be there as well. I haven't read a review yet where someone has said that the RE252 is a clear improvement on the RE0. In fact, most people chalk it up to preference.

 

[the search never ends]

This is a thought provoking thread, and for the most part, civil as well, I want to thank Joe, for taking the time (and having the patience) to even connsider such a thread, while I doubt any consensus will be made, I honestly believe this thread will be very informative, allowing those that may be considering some of thes iem's. Like has been said, the fx 500, can shine, but not on enough music, in my opinion, none the less, many points made on it's sonic qualities, would at least in my mind, be very helpful to a perspective buyer. My new orto's (top tier or not) would never have been on my radar, were it not for headfi, again leading me to believe, no matter how the thread pans out, will serve as a useful tool in some decisions. Rock on JOE..... I will have to hook you up, for going through so much trouble.

 

[JeFFz]

wow, guess this is the fastest growing thread? lol.

anyway this thread is a compilation of different users' reviews. whether an iem is considered top-tier is based on the OP's thinking since this is his thread. So for those who wants to see their favorite iems to be placed as top-tier should post comments, opinions as why they are top-tier to convince the OP.

This thread could be a reference for other people and true that each people have different opinions on IEM, but well just leave average_joe to manage his thread.

Those who are bashing this thread can feel free to leave and make their OWN thread.