[kevin638880]

It was related to the idea of Raven being more than just a "good" IEM. I would even be happy if it is on TOTL level, so comparable to others you mentioned.

Oh it definitely is. I'd say the best from EE yet. But the tuning is very "un-EE", as in there isn't a ridiculous amount of (excellent) midbass. Understandably this might not gel with the normal EE tuning fans who enjoy the traditional EE tuning.

The short version is that Raven is basically an Annihilator 2.0 with 80% of its treble and 1000% of its bass quality, and better technical ability. The long version.....I'll have to get home first, or ask @Damz87

 

[phiemon]

Oh it definitely is. I'd say the best from EE yet. But the tuning is very "un-EE", as in there isn't a ridiculous amount of (excellent) midbass. Understandably this might not gel with the normal EE tuning fans who enjoy the traditional EE tuning.

The short version is that Raven is basically an Annihilator 2.0 with 80% of its treble and 1000% of its bass quality, and better technical ability. The long version.....I'll have to get home first, or ask @Damz87

Raven like an Anni 2.0, I like that a lot... I wonder if Anni becomes obsolete when you have Raven?!

 

[kevin638880]

Raven like an Anni 2.0, I like that a lot... I wonder if Anni becomes obsolete when you have Raven?!

To my ears they are tuned VERY similarly...a more revealing brightish U shaped signature. Mids on the Raven are more revealing while the Anni is faster but more coloured.

Anni's treble is still the best and that alone is enough of a reason to own one - it is that special. But if you don't mind that treble sauce, then the Raven basically wipes the floor in every category.

The Anni didn't become obsolete because nothing can replace its treble...but the PLE has been dethroned by the Creator - similar/worse vocal performance, more treble presence (which I don't mind either way), worse everything else.

 

[Visceral]

Yes, that is indeed interesting, thank you for posting!


I must have forgotten, please excuse me. So as a fan of electronic music, I might quite like Raven.


That's exactly what I wrote: it's perfectly okay to have a different opinion. I respect that and don't judge it. What I didn't think was that other devices might not really be bit perfect or something similar.


It was related to the idea of Raven being more than just a "good" IEM. I would even be happy if it is on TOTL level, so comparable to others you mentioned.

Actually, I’m going to retract my comment of this IEM being a TOTL because I’m actually curious how folks in the community qualify this term.

@Rockwell75 Survey Idea - What qualifies an IEM as TOTL?
Is it price - popularity - Build quality - Timbre - Tuning - Technicalities - availability

Second suggestion - We should start a revolution and put our current TOP 5 albums in our signatures. This would be so insanely helpful when reading posted product impressions and answering each others questions.

 

[phiemon]

Second suggestion - We should start a revolution and put our current TOP 5 albums in our signatures. This would be so insanely helpful when reading posted product impressions and answering each others questions.

If only it were that easy! Information like this is still missing: age, fitness, constitution, job, daily routine, time of the analytical hearing, whether you had a fight with your partner beforehand, what you ate before, etc. I am serious.

 

[Visceral]

To my ears they are tuned VERY similarly...a more revealing brightish U shaped signature. Mids on the Raven are more revealing while the Anni is faster but more coloured.

Anni's treble is still the best and that alone is enough of a reason to own one - it is that special. But if you don't mind that treble sauce, then the Raven basically wipes the floor in every category.

The Anni didn't become obsolete because nothing can replace its treble...but the PLE has been dethroned by the Creator - similar/worse vocal performance, more treble presence (which I don't mind either way), worse everything else.

 

[1oad3r]

Nice pictures.

Thank you my friend

 

[Visceral]

If only it were that easy! Information like this is still missing: age, fitness, constitution, job, daily routine, time of the analytical hearing, whether you had a fight with your partner beforehand, what you ate before, etc. I am serious.

lol yes there are a lot of variables.. but I think we can all agree that the music would be the biggest factor here.

 

[phiemon]

Very interesting!

 

[haci]

I must have forgotten, please excuse me. So as a fan of electronic music, I might quite like Raven.

Ok, below is some Raven compilation by Haci -) You can also go backwards in conversations for more flavor.

I was refering already to mentor and ronin since you said you had them.

Here are some specific pointers you can compare:

Lysistrata - The intro part until bass starts sets the limits of the stage in which the track takes place. They both (and raven) present it similarly: vast.

Dimension of sound - The horn that blows around 2:15 and how its sound diffuses through the ongoing sounds. Both IEMs (and raven) present this in 3d; a rare feat

I did compare Kublai Khan to Raven during my audition, using trance music and RS8.

It wasn't a long a/b comparison, but Kublai Khan sounded to me much brighter and less detailed compared to Raven. In terms of stage and detail, Raven was a step up.

My account of Raven burn in experience, weekend reading -)

Harmonic Evolution: The Auditory Renaissance Through Raven

The realm of in-ear monitors (IEMs) is perennially abuzz with innovations, each promising a unique, immersive sound experience. Among these, the Raven emerges as a profound contender, primarily due to its incorporation of Bone Conduction Drivers (BCD) and the transformative journey it offers its users through the burn-in process. This detailed account explores the multifaceted experience of adapting to the Raven, focusing on the metamorphosis of its sound profile, the liberation of its treble, the unification of the sonic spectrum, and the integral role of BCD in this auditory revolution.

Embarking on the Raven experience, users are greeted with a soundscape that, although impressive from the outset, often presents a stage and coherence that have yet to fully materialize. This embryonic state of auditory performance is not uncommon with high-fidelity IEMs. However, the subsequent evolutionary journey is one to behold, deeply rooted in its distinctive burn-in phase. This initial period, often riddled with skepticism due to its subtle onset of change, gradually starts reshaping the very essence of the audio output, preparing the ground for a more mature, refined auditory experience.

Integral to this transformation is the liberation of the treble. In its infancy, the Raven’s treble can present as constricted, almost overshadowed by the more dominant aspects of the sound profile. However, during the burn-in process, there’s a gradual yet perceptible shift. The treble begins to unfurl, stretching its auditory tendrils into a space that was previously uncharted. This unfolding is reminiscent of an artist finding their stroke, as the once-muted highs begin to articulate themselves more clearly, adding a new dimension of clarity and spaciousness to the overall sound.

Parallel to the treble’s ascent, the entire sonic spectrum within the Raven begins to demonstrate a remarkable coherence. This newfound harmony is far from a mere ceasefire between competing frequencies. Instead, it represents a symbiotic concord, wherein the lows, mids, and highs don’t just coexist but converge to create a holistic sound mosaic. The bass lines become more defined yet grounded, the mids embrace warmth and character, and the highs achieve a crystalline finesse without veering into abrasive territories. This orchestration of elements contributes to a panoramic soundstage, inviting the listener into an expansive auditory realm.

Amidst this symphony, the role of the Bone Conduction Drivers (BCD) comes to the forefront. The incorporation of BCD technology in Raven transcends the traditional paradigms of sound reception. Instead of solely relying on air conduction, the Raven engages the cranial bones as conduits for sound waves, adding a tangible dimension to the listening experience. This method not only enhances the physical sensation of sound, bridging the external with the internal, but also maintains a clarity of ambient sound, fostering an inclusive listening environment.

The BCD’s influence is particularly noteworthy as the IEMs mature through the burn-in period. They provide a consistent, tactile resonance that grounds the sound experience, preventing the lows and mids from becoming dislodged as the treble finds its eloquence. This balancing act is crucial, ensuring that the sonic evolution doesn’t isolate but integrates each aspect of the sound profile. The result is an auditory experience that is as immersive internally as it is aware externally.

In conclusion, the journey with the Raven is not just an exploration of sound but a redefinition of the listening experience. The burn-in phase serves as a gateway, transitioning the user from a mere listener to an immersive participant in the audio realm. The emancipation of the treble, the harmonization of the sound spectrum, and the pivotal role of bone conduction technology converge to craft an experience that’s both intimate and expansive. The Raven, therefore, stands as a testament to the evolution of sound, inviting its users to not just hear, but to listen, feel, and live the music in its resplendent totality.

Plus I haven’t seen any satisfying evidence that the impact of bone conduction drivers show up in graphs, which is to say the graphs don’t give the complete picture with these IEMs (EVO, Raven ..)

 

[OneEyedHito]

Okay guys, @blotmouse was very patient with me and helped me figure out the problem. Thank you very much!

It seems like the Qobuz/Tidal Android apps do not like the Moondrop Dawn USB-C 4,4mm dongle I was using at the time. Only with this setup (or the Direct Volume Control function in poweramp) could I replicate the issue. Neither with the 3,5mm jack of my phone nor the Qobuz implementation on the Hiby R3 II was there any problem. *edit* Also qobuz through uapp was fine. *edit* I suspect it's some kind of power issue, but I do not know exactly. Qobuz might use some form of upsampling, but that was not what I was hearing.

I want to apologize for not finding this out sooner and especially for insisting that the problem lies with the streaming service. I ask for your forgiveness. I can be very thick-headed and difficult to deal with when my mind is set to something.

Positives: I can use Qobuz again, yey!

Kudos to you. “A man is a man because he doesn’t blame others for what he can change in himself. - JK”

When I read your original posts it got my ire up a bit because it was contrary to my experience (how dare someone disagree with me ), I chose to keep reading the machine gun fire that is the Cooler before I replied and then I come upon this, very well done and thanks for saving me from getting my internet fingers going this morning .

I use Qobuz 80% for streaming (Due to Roon integration mostly) AM 20% for walking/exercising with APP and I buy music from both Qobuz, Bandcamp, and HDMusic.

I wish I could still buy Blu-ray’s but I can’t see enough difference between them and Apple TV 4K HDR on the LG Oled G3 sets I have so I just stream video exclusively.

Also I spend 90% of my video time on YouTube vs 10% on Apple TV movies and shows fwiw.

 

[phiemon]

So we can agree that Odyssey is Anni 1.5, right? Of course it's a joke.

 

[Junmoe62]

Hi friends!

I dropped the ball… It’s official, I totally lost it for 2024 :

I bought the damn thing…
The last set of Rosenkranz Silver HB Ruthenium plated available. Other plating options will still be available though.
This unit also has an upgraded internal wiring with the flagship Rosenkranz HP 100 million/sol pure copper cable.
Really loving the sound out of these! Drum kicks never sounded as good!
Here they are equipped with a Beat Audio Billow cable, the tuning is V shaped I’d say.
I‘ll try other cables when I find the time see if I can find a better match. For the esthetics, I think the yellow cable works nicely with the black shells.
I’ll try giving a bit more detailed impressions when I find the time.

So, yeah… I’m starting the year pretty well, with this and CP622b custom… I’m gonna try to stop there for the coming months!!!


Also, I didn’t have time to go back to the store to compare my custom 622 with the universal version, but I went to another store to demo these :

The PMG Audio APX!

very nice set!
it’s actually much smaller than I would have expected by looking at the driver configuration and the pics shared so far.

Here are pics next to my custom 622 and 64Audio Noir :

‘here are roug impressions from a short demo through DC-Elite.
‘it’s a beautiful looking set.
Build quality is good but fairly average
Fit is pretty good too given the smaller size and the longer nozzle should work well with most ears.
The cable is nice but looks quite average to for a set at that price.

The sound:
‘This set is quite bright. It‘s in between Anni and Ragnar in terms of perceived tuning.
Very good sub bass quality, mid bass is a bit lesser in quantity but better quality than Anni and more quantity than Ragnar but I don’t think it’s better in quality. Midrange is leaner than Anni but a tad warmer than Ragnar and same goes for trebles.
Anni feels like it has a bit more treble extension
I still feel like Ragnar has the edge in raw resolving power as well as for the palpable attack of notes. APX feels a bit more like Anni in the transient representation and is more chillax in comparison to Ragnar.
APX soundstage and imaging are quite excellent. It’s not as wide as Ragnar’s but it has more depth and therefore feels a bit more realistic/natural to my ears. Positioning cues are also top notch.

Overall it feels like an excellent set if you enjoy neutral bright tuning and detail retrieval and nice sub bass. I can’t say I preferred it over Anni or Ragnar though, despite a significant price difference. Is it worth the price? Probably not (says the guy who just bought a $8000 single DD … ), but definitely could to some folks.

Cheers Coolers!

Julien.

 

[fejnomit]

I've scaled down immensely in my audio hobby having once owned the Traillii. I listen to songs like these and wish I had the gear I once had. The Traillii, for me, excelled at that "ethereal atmospheric beauty" so would be magical with this song/album... I had the very same desire (though not the means) to splurge on some new iems/source.

I like that phrase. This is what the combo of Ronin and Perseus through RS8 does for me.

I'm probably going to make myself very unpopular now. If that's the case, I can deal with it. As a person who has been involved in scientific research, I have learned to deal cope with something like this. I have also learned to question everything and to make sure of things that intuitively make little sense to me like the assumption made here that music played locally sounds better than streamed.

I've compared identical tracks of various qualities (from normal FLAC to Hi-Res 192kbps) both locally and with Tidal in streaming. I bought these tracks in Qobuz and also downloaded them through Tidal in master quality (FLAC of course, and please don't ask any further questions here, it's best to google). I played these files both locally on the DX320Max and N30 and again in the corresponding Tidal apps. I have compared everything meticulously and attentively.

The result? Everything sounds exactly the same! Guys, there are absolutely zero sonic differences, really nothing at all. I have done my best to convince myself that this is not the case. But I had to give up. I'm a purist myself and I want the best possible audio quality. However, my test proved to me personally that there is no difference in sound quality between local and streamed. Everything else is part of misbelief, or rather of "audiophile esoterism" - to give myself a nice expression of a headfier.

Feel free to ask for more test details if you like, I'll be happy to answer your questions. This test can be reproduced by anyone, you don't need anything special to carry it out yourself. But in view of my personal results, I see no reason that I discuss this any further unless something in my test was not executed correctly. For me, the fact is certain.

While I absolutely respect your findings, I respectfully disagree with your inductive reasoning. As a scientist you should try not to generalize from your specific data. You can infer and hypothesize but you cannot elevate your findings to the level of theorem until proven or disproven by a statistically relevant cohort of findings. Reading these pages I would suggest you have not in fact found your results in alignment with such a cohort and therefore your findings, albeit valid as data, cannot be generalized. Please note, I am not weighing in on the debate, nor providing my own data, just cautioning you on your methodology.

I see a German approach here.. in a good way

I would still recommend to better test playback through different apps.
I personally hear difference between Tidal and UAPP in streaming playback of Tidal files.
And a huge one when playing local files through Neutron on its maximized settings.

Other fun thing is DSD format vs everything else (as it also imply different mastering at times).
For example all The Doors DSD releases sound more wide, spatial, holographic and detailed than their PCM versions IMO.

Now I will weigh in with my own findings and say I agree 100% with these findings. Qobuz through UAPP sounds better than Qobuz alone. Local files sound better through Neutron than any other app I have tried. Although I remain in the minority by saying I prefer the sound of Qobuz streaming to any local files. And DSD, especially those sessions originally recorded in DSD, sound vastly different from PCM... Not better per se, but obviously and repeatably different.

I strongly suspect that UAPP applies some kind of filter of its own that alters the original music quality. I read somewhere earlier that UAPP has its own USB driver. I have no idea whether this is true, it's not important for me either. Whether this is good or not is up to you. But if the music from the original source sounds exactly the same as the same music through the app, I'm happy. I don't like the idea of a change that deviates from the source.

But this is the problem. What source is that? Everything is played through something, right? There is no way any of us can really say what a source file sounds like on its own. And USB drivers are very much part of the digital playback equation, with their own contributions to the sound from all USB Dacs. Some sound better than others, in terms of one's preferences, some worse, etc.

 

[Scubadevils]

Listening to ‘Dawn Chorus’ by Hidden Orchestra - this blend of jazz and electronica is really perfect with Perpetua. In general I definitely find I prefer more relaxed genres with Perpetua with a focus on instrumental timbre.

As an aside, I still absolutely love the humble NW-WM1A - the Sony UI is without doubt still my favourite, almost 6 years since I first started using on the ZX300.

Project M next in the queue so I can scribble down some further listening impressions.