The Watercooler -- Impressions, philosophical discussion and general banter. Index on first page. All welcome.
Jan 7, 2024 at 5:52 AM Post #77,251 of 90,713
Can we go back to normal English and say ‘comparing’ instead of ‘A/B-ing’? :) I have even read some saying ‘A/B/C/D-ing’ lol.
A/Bin is more of a fast back and forth than in comparison to comparing 😂 English can be a tricky language my friend we need to be as specific as we can, especially with this stuff sometimes
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 5:53 AM Post #77,252 of 90,713
I see a German approach here.. in a good way 😂

I would still recommend to better test playback through different apps.
I personally hear difference between Tidal and UAPP in streaming playback of Tidal files.
And a huge one when playing local files through Neutron on its maximized settings.

Other fun thing is DSD format vs everything else (as it also imply different mastering at times).
For example all The Doors DSD releases sound more wide, spatial, holographic and detailed than their PCM versions IMO.
I strongly suspect that UAPP applies some kind of filter of its own that alters the original music quality. I read somewhere earlier that UAPP has its own USB driver. I have no idea whether this is true, it's not important for me either. Whether this is good or not is up to you. But if the music from the original source sounds exactly the same as the same music through the app, I'm happy. I don't like the idea of a change that deviates from the source.
 
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Jan 7, 2024 at 5:58 AM Post #77,253 of 90,713
A/Bin is more of a fast back and forth than in comparison to comparing 😂 English can be a tricky language my friend we need to be as specific as we can, especially with this stuff sometimes
That is pretty much how we compare in this hobby so the word ‘compare’ should suffice. I think it is jargon we can do without but my opinion will have no impact whatsoever so carry on! :)
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 5:59 AM Post #77,254 of 90,713
Imho there is no only truth of what is the best tuning.
It's all up to the listener.
I see it this way.
We re paying thousands of bucks for different sources and IEMs or headphones in order to get specific tuning to our liking and in the end it's just a mix up of everything in the chain.
Software is just another component in the mix for tweaking, let it be different filters or Crossfeed, PEQ etc
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:00 AM Post #77,255 of 90,713
That is pretty much how we compare in this hobby so the word ‘compare’ should suffice. I think it is jargon we can do without but my opinion will have no impact whatsoever so carry on! :)
Yeah I know what you mean bud haha
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:04 AM Post #77,256 of 90,713
I completely agree.. There is definitely a better feeling out of listening to your purchased Flac knowing you’re supporting the artist ,but when it comes to an actual sonic difference I hear absolutely nothing comparing my Local Flac library and my streaming library.. I went almost crazy trying to hear the slightest difference but there is none in my experience
I believe you, my issue was based on my gear and the app software after all. The great conspiracy I was experiencing was (as it often is) just based on my own stupidity.

However the discussion around the payment of artists, as well as the loss of dynamic range in recordings due to the limitations set first by the loudness war times and now the dominance of music streaming still remains:

https://www.sonible.com/blog/normalization-and-streaming-services/

https://dr.loudness-war.info/
It is of course perfectly legitimate for someone to prefer to buy music and support artists or something similar. My discourse is only from a sonic perspective.

Imho there is no only truth of what is the best tuning.
It's all up to the listener.
I see it this way.
We re paying thousands of bucks for different sources and IEMs or headphones in order to get specific tuning to our liking and in the end it's just a mix up of everything in the chain.
Software is just another component in the mix for tweaking, let it be different filters or Crossfeed, PEQ etc
That's exactly how it is: everyone decides for themselves what they want, and of course that has to be respected.
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:05 AM Post #77,257 of 90,713
I get your point indeed. However, the VE10 is extremely sensitive, it picks up noise from the RS8 as well, which is supposed to be a high-end unit. If the sound quality is fantastic like in the Tsuranagi, that is not a big issue in my view.

The amp is for desktop listening for sure. It's not that easy to carry around today's flagship DAPs either. It's certainly quirky though, the front panel has lots of inputs/outputs but once you set it up, you just lay back and enjoy it.

I want to test the silver concept version of the Tsuranagi, but this one sounds incredibly good regardless. It might not make sense to many, but I don't think everything in our hobby makes sense either :sweat_smile:

💯 Amen to that 👏
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:14 AM Post #77,258 of 90,713
I believe you, my issue was based on my gear and the app software after all. The great conspiracy I was experiencing was (as it often is) just based on my own stupidity.

However the discussion around the payment of artists, as well as the loss of dynamic range in recordings due to the limitations set first by the loudness war times and now the dominance of music streaming still remains:

https://www.sonible.com/blog/normalization-and-streaming-services/

https://dr.loudness-war.info/
Please excuse me, I don't know if what I'm writing now has something to do with that, but do you know that Tidal and Apple Music, for example, have a "loudness" setting that can be deactivated in the settings?
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:16 AM Post #77,259 of 90,713
The Bonneville short impressions
IMG_0188.jpeg


First thing that I noticed about this IEM is the size, maybe after spending months listening to big IEMs such as the Fei Wan, Mentor, Grand Maestro, I had forgotten how “normal sized” IEM fitted. It felt weird that the IEM isn’t sticking out of my ears.

This IEM resembles some of that Campfire Audio house sound from what I remembered, it has a big upper mids dip compared to neutral sounding sets. But it sounded less warm than I remembered from their other offerings (from what I remembered, anyway).

Right off the bet, I can tell the Bonneville has generous bass boost. It hits pretty hard and goes deep. And since it has more aggressive slope, the bass feels more standout when the music calls for it. And it feels more clean too. And compare to Grand Maestro’s sub bass boost, this has a more even boost across the bass spectrum, for bass lovers this is more “useful” boost I feel like.

With the mids more neutral, this is generally a plus for pop music, they sounded pretty clean. Even for Asian female pop singers, most of the time their voice aren’t covered by the instruments in the track. Combined with the big bass, techno music especially, is addicting to listen to. The aforementioned bass boost does bring quite a bit of bass bleeding into the mids, but for techno music, it is a trade off I am willing to make all day. Listening to Vorso’s latest album, Holonomy is just a bliss on this thing.

The upper mids/ lower treble dips on the other hand will kill any potential to become an all rounder unfortunately. This region of sounds is essential for so many of the soundtracks when the tracks gets to the climax with a lot of instruments going off all at once. There is not enough sound in this region for instruments like violins, flutes to shine, causing these instruments to sound dull when played alone. While alone it is still sounds okay if you are into a warm sound. When combined with other instruments like cello, trombone etc, the violins gets overwhelmed and gets lost in the music. Female vocals also suffer in these tracks, Hiroyuki Sawano’s Attack on titan (wmid) is good example for that. Eliana’s powerful voice just doesn’t shine well with Bonneville.

Technicalities wise, Bonneville has the tendency to make the sounds bigger. This is a problem with complex acoustic tracks, combined with the dip in upper mids, there are times when the music sounded like a massive ball of sound but it’s hard to tell what’s really in it other than “oh, it sounds epic”. But with genres that has more simple instrumentations, this fills up the space and sound really nice. But on some of the tracks it feels bit odd for me, I felt the vocals are sounding too big. It doesn’t negatively affect the listening experience generally, maybe I am just used to the more precise imaging from all the reference IEMs I hear.

Soundstage isn’t the biggest I hear, and separation isn’t the best. But for the music I enjoyed listening with the Bonneville, this is more than enough.

Overall I quite enjoyed the set. It has achieved good balance for a darker sounding set of IEM.
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:22 AM Post #77,260 of 90,713
That is pretty much how we compare in this hobby so the word ‘compare’ should suffice. I think it is jargon we can do without but my opinion will have no impact whatsoever so carry on! :)
I think it's still better than saying ' I performed a randomized controlled experiment on these two IEMS ' -)
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:23 AM Post #77,261 of 90,713
The Bonneville short impressions
IMG_0188.jpeg

First thing that I noticed about this IEM is the size, maybe after spending months listening to big IEMs such as the Fei Wan, Mentor, Grand Maestro, I had forgotten how “normal sized” IEM fitted. It felt weird that the IEM isn’t sticking out of my ears.

This IEM resembles some of that Campfire Audio house sound from what I remembered, it has a big upper mids dip compared to neutral sounding sets. But it sounded less warm than I remembered from their other offerings (from what I remembered, anyway).

Right off the bet, I can tell the Bonneville has generous bass boost. It hits pretty hard and goes deep. And since it has more aggressive slope, the bass feels more standout when the music calls for it. And it feels more clean too. And compare to Grand Maestro’s sub bass boost, this has a more even boost across the bass spectrum, for bass lovers this is more “useful” boost I feel like.

With the mids more neutral, this is generally a plus for pop music, they sounded pretty clean. Even for Asian female pop singers, most of the time their voice aren’t covered by the instruments in the track. Combined with the big bass, techno music especially, is addicting to listen to. The aforementioned bass boost does bring quite a bit of bass bleeding into the mids, but for techno music, it is a trade off I am willing to make all day. Listening to Vorso’s latest album, Holonomy is just a bliss on this thing.

The upper mids/ lower treble dips on the other hand will kill any potential to become an all rounder unfortunately. This region of sounds is essential for so many of the soundtracks when the tracks gets to the climax with a lot of instruments going off all at once. There is not enough sound in this region for instruments like violins, flutes to shine, causing these instruments to sound dull when played alone. While alone it is still sounds okay if you are into a warm sound. When combined with other instruments like cello, trombone etc, the violins gets overwhelmed and gets lost in the music. Female vocals also suffer in these tracks, Hiroyuki Sawano’s Attack on titan (wmid) is good example for that. Eliana’s powerful voice just doesn’t shine well with Bonneville.

Technicalities wise, Bonneville has the tendency to make the sounds bigger. This is a problem with complex acoustic tracks, combined with the dip in upper mids, there are times when the music sounded like a massive ball of sound but it’s hard to tell what’s really in it other than “oh, it sounds epic”. But with genres that has more simple instrumentations, this fills up the space and sound really nice. But on some of the tracks it feels bit odd for me, I felt the vocals are sounding too big. It doesn’t negatively affect the listening experience generally, maybe I am just used to the more precise imaging from all the reference IEMs I hear.

Soundstage isn’t the biggest I hear, and separation isn’t the best. But for the music I enjoyed listening with the Bonneville, this is more than enough.

Overall I quite enjoyed the set. It has achieved good balance for a darker sounding set of IEM.
Such really critical impressions always enthuse me. I just wish we had more of them. Thank you for your helpful and valuable and convincing contribution.
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:30 AM Post #77,262 of 90,713
Please excuse me, I don't know if what I'm writing now has something to do with that, but do you know that Tidal and Apple Music, for example, have a "loudness" setting that can be deactivated in the settings?
Yes, I know about that. This is most likely either a "bass and treble boost" setting or it normalizes music in custom playlists, so they have exactly the same dynamic range. Nobody has to lower the annoying louder song in a playlist that runs in the background anymore, yey! :wink:

However, streaming services have certain requirements that must be met for the music to sound good, because it does get processed. And even if stuff like Tidal doesn't have them, Spotify sure does and 99% of all music is mastered for Spotify. And before streaming services there was also a time where producers and labels tried to master music as loud as possible.

I can recommend reading this blog post I have linked or comparing the dynamic scores of modern (re-) releases to older masters.
There are many articles regarding this topic. So while some of the normalization is "in the artists intention" because the artists masters the music themselves, they mostly do it because they have to or because they don't know better anymore, since this has been a standard for quite some time now.

Music released (note that re-releases do not count, as they get processed for streaming before release) until the early 80s is often much more dynamic in its production than music now.
 
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Jan 7, 2024 at 6:32 AM Post #77,263 of 90,713
Day & Night
For daytime => WM1A (NP-Mod) + IER-Z1R (SednaEarfit Azla MAX TWS tips)
For nights => Qulooz MUB1 + IER-M9 (SednaEarfit MAX ASMR Tips)
Both are mostly used in LDAC BT receiver mode with a Samsung Z Fold 5 connected to my personal streaming server or Qobuz for discovering music.
I have spent these last decades a lot of money in Headphones and IEM ! I don't know how Sony could manage this, but IER-Z1R, for my ears, is clearly, by a big margin, the best sound quality I could ever get even for much more money with some IEM.
Strangely, IER-Z1R with Azla TWS tips offers me a perfect comfort in my ears combined to a very good seal.
I would dream the M9 could offer same SQ because they are really convenient for side sleepers, though timbre is near to perfect, I am missing the amazing quality for low and ultra low frequencies of the Z1R.

I re-bought this amazing combo IER-Z1R for 950€ and IER-M9 for 650€.... which should be the price reference for any IEM on the market dreaming to reach this SQ level and Timbre.

2024-01-07 11-42-38 (C,Smoothing3) copie.jpg
 
Jan 7, 2024 at 6:32 AM Post #77,264 of 90,713
Aura is a pretty large leap forward in almost every aspect, especially resolution / tonality ..Mest has maybe a wider soundstage and more bass quantity but the quality of it is not as good .. that being said, I still love the Mest mk2 at its price point but does not compete with Aura
Similar opinions. Aura is a vast improvement over the VE Phonix and continues the VE Phonix LE. It really is their successor. Odd that Aura is limited edition feels like the natural progression as though should be an obtainable iem.

Mest MK2 is a good iem. Especially at its price. However, it is not a TOTL. It does not even stand up to the upper versions of its own company such as Indigo and Red Halo are both better in terms of staging. Meat might be good starting place, but many improvements have been made. Any word on sound signature of Mest MK3? Hope it helps.
 

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