The (new) HD800 Impressions Thread
Dec 6, 2016 at 7:33 AM Post #24,301 of 28,992
Question...
 
I have heard people driving their 800s using speaker taps.  There is a Hifiman adapter box for $99 some people use (balanced connection on one end, speaker taps on the other).  Can this be used successfully with the 800?  What kind of solid state speaker amps would be ideal?  I am looking to maybe try something different to give the 800s more juice since people rave about it, but I want to make sure I don't overdrive them, and find a speaker amp that has the right power/ohms, etc.  Preferably something under $600.
 
Or just any general advice in this arena would be helpful.  
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 8:34 AM Post #24,302 of 28,992
running into a bit of a conundrum, setup wise, for my two desktop rigs.  Wondering if anybody has any thoughts/suggestions that might trigger some ideas.  Both rigs use HD800 as the primary listener (although occasionally the THX00 or SRH840 make guest appearances when closed cans are needed, but for the purposes of this, consider these to both be HD800 rigs).

I have two desktop rigs, one for my home office desk, and one for my "listening chair."  THe office desk rig is mostly for passive rocking out while I work.  The "listening chair" is where I go to critical listen, but also to relax. 

Currently the office desk rig is: macbook pro -> jitterbug -> Modi Multibit -> HiFiMan EF2C (Voshkod 6ZH1P EF95)

Listening chair rig is: mbp -> Wyrd -> Cayin iDAC6 -> ECP/Beezar Topredo III (GE 5 star 12AY7)

Today, listening to the office rig, I got pretty amazed by how good it sounds.  The "listening chair" rig is a $2700 setup, while this humble office rig setup was about $400.  Basically the EF2C (voshkod tubes), while not the most finessed amp in the world, kicks like a mule in transient response.  Definitely the cheapest amp I've found that really does justice to the HD800.  However, its weakness is in micro detail, or lack thereof.  For a tube amp it's pretty neutral, definitely not gooey like some little dots that use mullards from the same family are.  

The listening chair rig is amazing, the Cayin iDAC6 is warm and comfortable as far as neutral DACs go, not a hint of harshness.  It also really has some kick to its analog output stage.  It is also very detailed, however, I sometimes feel that its intense output response, and intense transient response covers up details "inside" and "surrounding" transients.  Like a kick drum can be so intense that it doesn't even allow my ear to hear details of the character of the kick drum.  something like transient microdetail is either missing, or covered up by its intensity.

The Modimultibit is supremely micro detailed, warm, inviting.  However, it does lack some of the "authority" of transients, and thus a touch of excitement, in some very aggressive music.  It's like kick drums don't kick as hard, snares don't snap as hard.  I can tell how heavy the drummer's sticks are (seriously, it has that much detail), but I can't feel the crack of the snare in the same way as with the iDAC6.  

So, my conundrum, is do I switch out the MM and iDAC6, and have two different experiences for the HD800?  Right now, both rigs sort of sound similar, although the "listening chair" rig does sound subtly, but noticeably better.  But I think the fact that the punchier, less detailed amp is paired with the more relaxed, more detailed DAC, and vice versa, somewhat equalizes them (no pun intended).  If I switched I could have an "ultimate in warm, inviting, yet supremely detailed" listening chair setup and a "holy schiit, i had no idea an HD800 could kick like this" work desk" setup.  


I'm also open to any suggestions people might have on minor tweaks (tubes, USB decrapifier, power buffer, etc).


I've tried all 4 configurations, and they all have their merits.  If I had to pick one single configuration as absolute best, it'd probably be MM -> TIII.  but iDAC6 -> TIII comes really close and can surpass it on rock, which makes up the largest genre I listen to, and about 1/3 of my listening overall (Jazz, alt-country, Soul, metal, indie, alt rock, R&B, classical and rap make up most of the bulk of the rest, in roughly that order).


(also if anybody has any questions about any of these in relation to the HD800, just let me know)


This might sound a little funny, but I think much of the issue would be solved by ditching USB audio (at least as much as possible). USB is, for the most part, a devastatingly poor method of realtime audio data transfer. The protocol transfers are built all wrong. Coaxial S/PDIF, on the other hand (along with TOSLINK optical) were designed in conjunction with the Audio Engineering Society and European Broadcasting Union to the AES3 standard. S/PDIF, developed in a joint effort by Sony and Philips, is considered by many to be the better of the two consumer-grade AES3 connections, as it is capable of twice the sampling rate (24/192) as Toshiba's alternative, TOSLINK optical (24/96). The main difference in these formats from USB is the handling of validity and parity in the transfer of data to your DAC. Essentially, the bad bits get muted here, which is a very good thing sonically (as it sounds much better than an error).

So what are the differences? Better transient snap, much better impact, better soundstage size & shape, better imaging, better timbre, and a different (often quieter and less fatiguing) background.

Unearth your old CD player and some discs, grab yourself a $10 coax S/PDIF cable, and give it a whirl. I think you will be pleasantly surprised at how much difference it can make. From there, you might want to consider your other non-USB options, like a dedicated DAP or USB to S/PDIF converter.

As mentioned above by jibzilla, vinyl is also a good alternative, as it also avoids many of the issues that come with USB audio.

I think both options are going to restore much of the tactility, etc. you are missing from your music.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 8:43 AM Post #24,303 of 28,992
Question...

I have heard people driving their 800s using speaker taps.  There is a Hifiman adapter box for $99 some people use (balanced connection on one end, speaker taps on the other).  Can this be used successfully with the 800?  What kind of solid state speaker amps would be ideal?  I am looking to maybe try something different to give the 800s more juice since people rave about it, but I want to make sure I don't overdrive them, and find a speaker amp that has the right power/ohms, etc.  Preferably something under $600.

Or just any general advice in this arena would be helpful.  


I'd look into different alternatives over that Hifiman adaptor. It is generally reviled on the HE-6 thread. I, personally, thought it sounded like garbage. I'm sure there is a better alternative out there.

Pro tip: never turn on your stereo amp with your headphones plugged in to the speaker taps. It's a great way to blow the drivers.

Pro tip #2: it's not about juice so much as quality. A good class-A speaker amp can take your music to the next level. If you are trying to drive them out of a class-D home theater receiver, they are going to sound like junk. Power alone isn't enough, you need current bandwidth and quality to get what you are looking for.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 9:03 AM Post #24,304 of 28,992
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I really appreciate them. A vinyl speaker rig is definitely in the future, but for now space constraints more or less rule it out. In addition, crossfeed is more or less a necessity in a headphone rig for me, and I've yet to find a satisfactory crossfeed solution for vinyl setups. Next year we are buying a house and at that point I will probably start a vinyl speaker rig journey.

Sorrodje, I think your comments might be spot on. I've tried Yggy and loved it in other systems, but in my system is was back to being a little too much punch. It sounds like a slightly more 3 dimensional version of the iDAC6, but still had dynamics that kind of overwhelmed my ear at times. Maybe Gumby is the correct middle ground for my rig.

I've tried SPIDF quite a few times and the cons always ended up outweighing the pros for me, but perhaps it's time for a new evaluation. I tried a USB -> SPIDF converter and couldn't tell a difference with regular USB. And the hassle of dedicated DAPs always meant that they simply didn't get used. CDs are a no go for me, I hate dealing with them. On a physical level they have the inconvenience of vinyl, without the charm and performance of vinyl (again, for me, ymmv, etc). Maybe a USB -> SPIDF converter is the answer and the one I tried wasn't very good? Have any recs there? I have most of my favorite albums in 24/192 so I'm "limited" to SPIDF.

It's a nice, but semi frustrating place to be for me right now, as I really am extremely happy with my setup and most things I try are a step backwards. When I go to meets, I rarely hear a rig that I would prefer to mine. But the head-fi in me can't stop looking for that last little 1%.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 9:14 AM Post #24,305 of 28,992
@fjrabon, FYI, Mimby actually measures much better out of the Coax than USB.  Atomicbob measured it a while back.  Before I even saw his measurement, I one day switched from USB to Coax and the difference was NOT subtle.  USB sounded comparatively like garbage to me, and I was even using the Regen with it.  I'm not saying USB from Mimby is bad on its own, but Coax completely embarrassed it.  I switched over to CDs/Coax after that and never looked back.  I also, do not know the specifics if your computer though, so it's possible I had a garbage laptop, but I doubt it.  It was a very good laptop, and I also had various program garbage/noise reduction programs running as well.
 
CDs may not be practical for you with the Mimby, but I cannot listen to USB with it anymore.  When I upgrade to Gumby or Yggy, that may change, but we will see how they do USB.  I suspect they have better USB implementation. 
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 10:01 AM Post #24,306 of 28,992
I must say, the HD800 really allows you to hear the amazing production values that go into a well mastered pop record.  Listening to Public Imagine LTD. "Album" right now... prime example.  PIL is a punk band that went new wave/pop in the 80s, but brought this surreal punk aesthetic to pop music, and it really shows here.  Just amazing layering, depth, and weird juxtapositions of sounds.  Like Huey Lewis and the News on steroids.  And John Lydon uses his voice like Miles Davis uses his trumpet (Davis actually said that to him one point).
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 11:12 AM Post #24,307 of 28,992
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I really appreciate them. A vinyl speaker rig is definitely in the future, but for now space constraints more or less rule it out. In addition, crossfeed is more or less a necessity in a headphone rig for me, and I've yet to find a satisfactory crossfeed solution for vinyl setups. Next year we are buying a house and at that point I will probably start a vinyl speaker rig journey.

Sorrodje, I think your comments might be spot on. I've tried Yggy and loved it in other systems, but in my system is was back to being a little too much punch. It sounds like a slightly more 3 dimensional version of the iDAC6, but still had dynamics that kind of overwhelmed my ear at times. Maybe Gumby is the correct middle ground for my rig.

I've tried SPIDF quite a few times and the cons always ended up outweighing the pros for me, but perhaps it's time for a new evaluation. I tried a USB -> SPIDF converter and couldn't tell a difference with regular USB. And the hassle of dedicated DAPs always meant that they simply didn't get used. CDs are a no go for me, I hate dealing with them. On a physical level they have the inconvenience of vinyl, without the charm and performance of vinyl (again, for me, ymmv, etc). Maybe a USB -> SPIDF converter is the answer and the one I tried wasn't very good? Have any recs there? I have most of my favorite albums in 24/192 so I'm "limited" to SPIDF.

It's a nice, but semi frustrating place to be for me right now, as I really am extremely happy with my setup and most things I try are a step backwards. When I go to meets, I rarely hear a rig that I would prefer to mine. But the head-fi in me can't stop looking for that last little 1%.


There are a couple of threads on USB to S/PDIF converters:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/503472/the-usb-to-spdif-converters-shoot-out-thread

http://www.head-fi.org/t/803111/xmos-xu208-usb-bridges-the-latest-gen-has-arrived

I heard the Talema is pretty good without being outrageously priced. I haven't tried any of these first hand though, so that's about all I've got.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 11:47 AM Post #24,308 of 28,992
Man. Phonitor 2 turned up today.
 
The HD800 sounds amazing through it. Sound has opened up, as if a muddy veil was resting over it before. Darker background, better separation. That's single ended too, balanced cable coming tomorrow to test. Cardas Lite. Couldn't get the TOTL Clear in time.
 
The Phonitor X is coming soon too, but that's more for additional IO and whatnot, I assume the performance will be the same.

HD800 + Phonitor 2 + Sonarworks Ref 3 = dream.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 12:01 PM Post #24,309 of 28,992
  Question...
 
I have heard people driving their 800s using speaker taps.  There is a Hifiman adapter box for $99 some people use (balanced connection on one end, speaker taps on the other).  Can this be used successfully with the 800?  What kind of solid state speaker amps would be ideal?  I am looking to maybe try something different to give the 800s more juice since people rave about it, but I want to make sure I don't overdrive them, and find a speaker amp that has the right power/ohms, etc.  Preferably something under $600.
 
Or just any general advice in this arena would be helpful.  


That's overkill for the HD800. Plenty of HP amps drive them well enough already. 
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 12:11 PM Post #24,310 of 28,992
Went to the library to rent some CDs.
 
HD800/Jot/Mimby sounds so ridiculously amazing I am having the urge to expand my musical tastes.  It really makes a huge difference being able to hear albums the way they were meant to be heard and now I'd like to start exploring new artists I hadn't heard.
 
First up Ryan Adams.  Heard of him, but never bothered until now.  Got his self titled album.  So far I am loving the production values, very nice layering of guitar and bass, drums.  And his voice is pleasing to listen to.  Not a hint of harshness.  And this is a rock CD!
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 12:28 PM Post #24,311 of 28,992
  Went to the library to rent some CDs.
 
HD800/Jot/Mimby sounds so ridiculously amazing I am having the urge to expand my musical tastes.  It really makes a huge difference being able to hear albums the way they were meant to be heard and now I'd like to start exploring new artists I hadn't heard.
 
First up Ryan Adams.  Heard of him, but never bothered until now.  Got his self titled album.  So far I am loving the production values, very nice layering of guitar and bass, drums.  And his voice is pleasing to listen to.  Not a hint of harshness.  And this is a rock CD!

A couple you may want to try Dire Straits Brothers in Arms and Steely Dan Aja.  Both are very well produced making them a couple of my favorites to audition new equipment.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 12:51 PM Post #24,312 of 28,992
Has anyone tried the HD800 on the MAD Ear+ HD amp?  I know it was designed around the HD650 so curious as to how it translates to the HD800.
 
I've been really tempted to pick up an HD800 lately and hope that it would pair well with the Ear+
 
Thanks
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 2:20 PM Post #24,313 of 28,992
just remembered that the MBP does output optical TOSLINK SPIDF though the headphone jack.  I guess I can just try that out before I drop $200-$2000 on a USB ->SPIDF converter.  The Gustard U12 does look appealing if I end up going that route.
 
Dec 6, 2016 at 3:44 PM Post #24,314 of 28,992
 
First up Ryan Adams.  Heard of him, but never bothered until now.  Got his self titled album.  So far I am loving the production values, very nice layering of guitar and bass, drums.  And his voice is pleasing to listen to.  Not a hint of harshness.  And this is a rock CD!

 
Great call with Ryan - fantastic artist and production/mastering.
 
If you're a spotify user, check this out:
 
https://open.spotify.com/user/georgeeasten/playlist/69ssaTM08k8iiKscq0VHGQ
 
Pink Fish Reference playlist. Some crackers in there.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top