[BassicScience]

In slightly different contexts I recently had the opportunity to hear both the DAC and the speakers so even more interesting to read knowing a little about how both perform. In some senses it wasn’t really a thorough review. More of a “It really is as good as they say“ summary with a couple of small digs at a certain reviewer who found faults which, in my view, made them look somewhat silly.

DC offset at an amplifier's output terminals is not desirable, and DC offset spikes even less so. I'm not sure what's "silly" about pointing this out for the edification of a potential buyer. Audible pops when adjusting volume are a deal-breaker for me, and probably some others as well, whether or not there have been any transducers reported damaged in the process. I also find this amp's ergonomics lacking in a few other aspects, which again I learned about through conscientious reviewers.

I'm not denigrating the amp or its owners, but nothing is perfect, and I appreciate reviews that point out a product's flaws. YMMV.

 

[Mike Hughes]

DC offset at an amplifier's output terminals is not desirable, and DC offset spikes even less so. I'm not sure what's "silly" about pointing this out for the edification of a potential buyer. Audible pops when adjusting volume are a deal-breaker for me, and probably some others as well, whether or not there have been any transducers reported damaged in the process. I also find this amp's ergonomics lacking in a few other aspects, which again I learned about through conscientious reviewers.

I'm not denigrating the amp or its owners, but nothing is perfect, and I appreciate reviews that point out a product's flaws. YMMV.

Nothing is perfect. I think we can all agree on that. However, suggesting DC offset is an issue when the product has effectively existed for years as first Bakoon then Enleum with zero issues for speakers or headphones begs the question as to why. Response from the manufacturer and other reviews raised that exact point. The spike is negligible and offers zero risk. It’s also managed and so doubly so re: risk. There is no ”whether or not” re” transducer damage. None has ever been reported. The whole community would know if it had.

Said reviewer then mentioned that ergonomically the amp can slide about. However, he absolutely failed to mention that it shipped with three little pads which resolve that. Other reviewers not only mentioned that but a couple highlighted it as an odd omission in said review.

We now know, thorough other reviewers that the clicks are there; are natural given the design and are barely audible when music is playing. We also know that some, including the reviewer you found so helpful, had pops on top of the clicks. Those are a different thing and, thanks to other diligent reviewers who, as they say, didn’t want beef with said reviewer but did think the full picture hadn’t been presented, we now know that those pops occur if your DAC output exceeds 2V. That will be a dealbreaker for some. Who knows, when I audition, it might be for me, but, I didn’t learn that from one of the only two reviewers to raise questions about the amp. One of said reviewers found part of the sound wholly un engaging, The one part of the sound where every other reviewer disagreed. It was pointed out that what they were listening to was the sound of their headphones, which had a known dip in that area. There was no mention of other phones being tried or measurements offered up. Instead we were expected to accept that their “community” had thoroughly tested it and found the same issues. I know BS when I read it. Weirdly none of that community have ever appeared on a forum saying those same things. Still waiting for the follow up review which was being justified on the basis that the original product may have been faulty.

No product is for everyone. I wholly accept that. In this case though the reviews which raised issues look debatable at best.

 

[BassicScience]

Nothing is perfect. I think we can all agree on that. However, suggesting DC offset is an issue when the product has effectively existed for years as first Bakoon then Enleum with zero issues for speakers or headphones begs the question as to why. Response from the manufacturer and other reviews raised that exact point. The spike is negligible and offers zero risk. It’s also managed and so doubly so re: risk. There is no ”whether or not” re” transducer damage. None has ever been reported. The whole community would know if it had.

"Whether or not" referred to my aversion to audible pops (or even "clicks") when adjusting volume regardless of whether or not they were at a level dangerous to the transducer. I wasn't questioning the company's statement that no damage has ever been reported.

Said reviewer then mentioned that ergonomically the amp can slide about. However, he absolutely failed to mention that it shipped with three little pads which resolve that. Other reviewers not only mentioned that but a couple highlighted it as an odd omission in said review.

We now know, thorough other reviewers that the clicks are there; are natural given the design and are barely audible when music is playing. We also know that some, including the reviewer you found so helpful, had pops on top of the clicks. Those are a different thing and, thanks to other diligent reviewers who, as they say, didn’t want beef with said reviewer but did think the full picture hadn’t been presented, we now know that those pops occur if your DAC output exceeds 2V. That will be a dealbreaker for some. Who knows, when I audition, it might be for me, but, I didn’t learn that from one of the only two reviewers to raise questions about the amp. One of said reviewers found part of the sound wholly un engaging, The one part of the sound where every other reviewer disagreed. It was pointed out that what they were listening to was the sound of their headphones, which had a known dip in that area. There was no mention of other phones being tried or measurements offered up. Instead we were expected to accept that their “community” had thoroughly tested it and found the same issues. I know BS when I read it. Weirdly none of that community have ever appeared on a forum saying those same things. Still waiting for the follow up review which was being justified on the basis that the original product may have been faulty.

The review that you linked also used the word "pops". Honestly, you seem to me to have an agenda here, and as such, I doubt further discussion will be productive. Cheers.

 

[Mike Hughes]

Yes it did say that. It was also one of several reviews I and others have linked to in this thread. Latest review doesn’t need the context of when it pops if you have read or watched the other reviews. Appreciate not everyone will have.

Sorry to disappoint but my agenda is solely that I want to audition the product as I feel it may be exactly what I’m looking for. Equally it may not. In getting to the point later in the year where I audition I‘ve been consuming as many reviews and opinions as possible. Had they all identified DC offset; slippage and pops as big issues then I would take that as seriously as you’d expect someone with £12k of existing kit to do. Having read all the available reviews in English and a few that weren’t and, having consumed all available on YouTube, my current conclusion is that there are two reviews which stand as outliers. I want to take the negative and the positive seriously but, in this instance, both reviewers have expressed views with significant omissions; not justified their assertions and seen them comprehensively refuted with detail by both the manufacturer and another reviewer. Hilariously one esteemed reviewer identified a specific issue with one aspect of the sound and provided audio examples. When you play them over headphones the issue was literally inaudible.

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to take that balance as a perspective. If a review comes along which says actually I can produce really bad pops in all circumstances; shows those as measurements; that the DC offset has started to do some damage or that the product fell off a shelf and damaged itself when the weight of cables took a hold then I’ll take that very seriously. In this instance you have two outliers who look to be no more than that.

 

[K.T.]

Duplicate post

 

[K.T.]

Thank you! Not sure about serial , will check when at home, anyway mine is from first batch but was sent for upgrade firmware . So the serial number would not matter anymore after the upgrade i guess

Hi, Rdbogdan.

Could I ask how much it cost you to upgrade the board in your amp to V2?

I’m considering doing the same myself, if it’s not too prohibitively expensive.

Thanks!

 

[rdbogdan]

Hi, Rdbogdan.

Could I ask how much it cost you to upgrade the board in your amp to V2?

I’m considering doing the same myself, if it’s not too prohibitively expensive.

Thanks!

Sent you a message

 

[iFi audio]

There is no ”whether or not” re” transducer damage. None has ever been reported

One thing is certain: if that would've ever happened, we'd already read about this here n HF. Such things don't go unnoticed.

 

[RustyGates]

So, after 5 years I gave the Susvara another go, this time with the AMP-23R, pitched against the Focal Utopia 2022 in a sonic showdown. Sus in high gain, Utopia in low.

And... my choice is still clear; the Utopia '22 is the more engaging and enjoyable headphone, even more so than the OG. On the AMP-23R it is absolutely delightful, especially when you give it more and more juice and the drivers really open up. The tube-like characteristics, clarity & speed of the AMP-23R really resonate well with the Utopia.

Yes, the Susvara has tiny bit better technicalities, more "air" and bigger soundstage, but just doesn't have the engagement factor the Utopia does, and the speed, resolution/clarity, precision imaging of the Utopia is pretty much on par, albeit the overall tonality (combination of FR tuning esp. midrange and dynamics/physicality/impact) is just better IMO.

As for Utopia '22 vs my now sold OG, I like the '22 better. It's the tuning I wish the OG had from the beginning as I felt the OG was too forward hot (my reference in terms of FR is the HD650).

Apart from sonics, the build quality of the Utopia (craftmanship, materials, accessories) runs circles around the Sus. Holding the Sus, it does not seem like a 6K USD headphone, but I am sure just the sonics alone make it worthwhile to a lot of people.

So, the Utopia '22 is the new headphone I've bought to pair with my AMP-23R. I got a brand-new sealed unit at a good discount too from the Focal dealer here in AU! (5K AUD -> 3,371 USD inclusive of tax).

 

[llamaluv]

So, after 5 years I gave the Susvara another go, this time with the AMP-23R, pitched against the Focal Utopia 2022 in a sonic showdown. Sus in high gain, Utopia in low.

And... my choice is still clear; the Utopia '22 is the more engaging and enjoyable headphone, even more so than the OG. On the AMP-23R it is absolutely delightful, especially when you give it more and more juice and the drivers really open up. The tube-like characteristics, clarity & speed of the AMP-23R really resonate well with the Utopia.

Yes, the Susvara has tiny bit better technicalities, more "air" and bigger soundstage, but just doesn't have the engagement factor the Utopia does, and the speed, resolution/clarity, precision imaging of the Utopia in pretty much on par, albeit and overall tonality (combination of FR tuning esp. midrange and dynamics/physicality/impact) is just better IMO.

As for Utopia '22 vs my now sold OG, I like the '22 better. It's the tuning I wish the OG had from the beginning as I felt the OG was too forward hot (my reference in terms of FR is the HD650).

Apart from sonics, the build quality of the Utopia (craftmanship, materials, accessories) runs circles around the Sus. Holding the Sus, it does not seem like a 6K USD headphone, but I am sure just the sonics alone make it worthwhile to a lot of people.

So, the Utopia '22 is the new headphone I've bought to pair with my AMP-23R. I got a brand-new sealed unit at a good discount too from the Focal dealer here in AU! (5K AUD -> 3,371 USD inclusive of tax).

Nice, it's always good to get people's candid opinions about these things. Some related thoughts from my own experience (with the older 13R):

I tried for a few months to convince myself that I liked the Bakoon 13R with the Susvara by tinkering with my signal chain quite a bit, but ultimately failed. I found the 13R to be a little lite in the bass for the Susvara and a shade too polite, and overall felt like the 13R was not worth the price of admission for this combo. Aside from issues of synergy with Susvara, I did like the 13R's sound signature, smoothness, and resolution quite a lot, including with the OG Utopia. I also prefer the tuning/tonality of the Nutopia to the OG Utopia, at least for solid state.

Currently pairing the Nutopia with an Auris Nirvana, and the Susvara with bridged mono AHB2's.

 

[iFi audio]

Nice, it's always good to get people's candid opinions about these things.

Indeed, and opinions which include getting back to stuff after some time are particularly valuable.

 

[freddydalg]

Battle of the ages happening right now between Bliss and Enleum

 

[iFi audio]

Battle of the ages happening right now between Bliss and Enleum

Well, who's winning ?

 

[VintageAudio]

So, after 5 years I gave the Susvara another go, this time with the AMP-23R, pitched against the Focal Utopia 2022 in a sonic showdown. Sus in high gain, Utopia in low.

And... my choice is still clear; the Utopia '22 is the more engaging and enjoyable headphone, even more so than the OG. On the AMP-23R it is absolutely delightful, especially when you give it more and more juice and the drivers really open up. The tube-like characteristics, clarity & speed of the AMP-23R really resonate well with the Utopia.

Yes, the Susvara has tiny bit better technicalities, more "air" and bigger soundstage, but just doesn't have the engagement factor the Utopia does, and the speed, resolution/clarity, precision imaging of the Utopia is pretty much on par, albeit the overall tonality (combination of FR tuning esp. midrange and dynamics/physicality/impact) is just better IMO.

As for Utopia '22 vs my now sold OG, I like the '22 better. It's the tuning I wish the OG had from the beginning as I felt the OG was too forward hot (my reference in terms of FR is the HD650).

Apart from sonics, the build quality of the Utopia (craftmanship, materials, accessories) runs circles around the Sus. Holding the Sus, it does not seem like a 6K USD headphone, but I am sure just the sonics alone make it worthwhile to a lot of people.

So, the Utopia '22 is the new headphone I've bought to pair with my AMP-23R. I got a brand-new sealed unit at a good discount too from the Focal dealer here in AU! (5K AUD -> 3,371 USD inclusive of tax).

Thanks for sharing Rusty. In the end, what makes you happy is what is right.

I haven't tried the Utopia'22, but way back when I was in the mid-fi space I was curious about how big a difference it was between mid-fi and the top tier headphones at the time. I owned a focal clear but decided to try both the Utopia and Susvara at a local shop driven by the iFi Pro ICAN amp. From a build perspective, totally agree, the fit and finish, of the Utopia gives you the feeling of a flagship headphone. Listening to them, they were great, definitely a notch above the clear for me. Then I tried the Susvara. Cans did not feel as dense and weighty - looked less blingy - but to my ears WOW. Cliche time, veil lifted, transparency, air, naturalism, realism, incredible detail retrieval. blown away. Could not unhear them, and realized I had to save $$$ to get myself a pair.

 

[VintageAudio]

Battle of the ages happening right now between Bliss and Enleum

Very cool. Price-wise the Enleum is quite a bit more than Bliss. Function-wise Enleum also doubles as a speaker amp, while Bliss is headphone amp. Form-factor-wise, I prefer a smaller box like enleum for a desktop setup than a bigger box like bliss. The big question is....how's the sound???