[fauxfreshness]

  I posted this in the X3 vs X5 thread but that one was pretty dead until I bumped it so I figured maybe I'd try here as well.
 
I'm torn between the X3 and the X5. If I'm going to be using the DAP mostly as a transport feeding into my ifi iDSD via the coax out, is there much advantage to the X5 over the X3 besides the extra storage?

 
I believe the X5 uses a hybrid dual-mono arrangement for much of its processing chain, and I know the first time I heard a lot of my music (including stuff I made myself to test) I was genuinely surprised at how "wide" everything was.  I love the FiiO X5 and would get another, but I kind of wish I could hear a pure dual-mono setup like on the iBasso DX9.  Of course, I'd just get an Aston&Kern 240 and be done with it.    I use my X5 with my E18 amp that I use with my Android devices and my PC at work.

 

[Gnawbert]

I've never used the X3, but the X5 UI / UX is amateur hour.  The click wheel is too sensitive for the main menu, the folder/file system is bad, and using or building a playlist is next to impossible to figure out.  
 
Want to play three Pink Floyd albums in a row?  Good luck, it'll cue them up by track number, not album.  I loaded Buddha Bar XV, a double CD album on there hoping that I could listen to them in a row as intended.  Nope, it plays them by track number, so I get Song 1 from Album 1 followed by Song 2 from Album 2, etc.  All this would be easy to fix if there was a simple, straightforward way for me to make Playlists, but there isn't.  After six hours of Googling and downloading apps and exporting .m3u files and editing the text in a text editor, I gave up.  It's way... WAY too complicated.
 
The whole experience feels like something made by people with zero understanding of good UI / UX.  It feels like a beta product, or something designed in 1999 from a time before i-devices and easy-to-use interfaces spoiled me.  In the end it's a trade-off: amazing sound for a shockingly awful UI on a $300+ product.  It's a trade-off that, after a week of near constant use, I'm beginning to doubt is worth it.  Others will no doubt disagree.

 

[x RELIC x]

What about the UI? I find the X3's UI (forgot which firmware) to be a nightmare to use.

I'll just say that the X3 UI and random freezes was one of the initial reasons I went for the X5. Now that the layout on the X3 is an icon based grid it is very counter intuitive to me using up/down buttons for navigation.

I have no problems with the wheel, and although mechanically 'loose' it serves me well. I have no preconceived notions of what is too loose or tight or whatever and it has done its job from day one.

This is all just my opinion though and others may want or expect more. The X5 simply plays music files and that's all I need. I have no problem spending an extra 5 seconds scrolling to find an album as I typically listen to one album at a time. Of course there could be tweaks and improvements, but for the price I'm putting my emphasis on sound quality.

 

[AudioBear]

I really like the sound, look and feel of the X5.  It's solidly built.  At the price it's an unbelievably good player but the UI has problems.  It works but the letters are too small for us old guys, the wheel is greased lightning and is hard to use, and it has some other shortcomings.  That said if you're all about sound you can live with the UI, at least I can.  I have grown quite fond of my X5.  I agree with Gnawbert although "shockingly" might be a little too strong, in fact I was not surprised much at all by how clunky the UI is because I read that on Head-Fi before I bought it.  At the end of the day  I'm keeping my X5 until there is a strong consensus here that something at the same price can beat it cleanly.
 
Now if I stumble onto $2500 I just might spring for a AK240 or a AK120II.  In the meanwhile I'll just be happy to have a player that is probably not that far removed from the AK sound.  Actually, why I want the AK is the big touchscreen and the UI.  That's a lot to pay for a UI when the player you have works (sort of). 
 
Fauxfreshness: I am not convinced there is a difference that I personally could hear between the AK or iBasso and the X5.  Real experts might.  I would love to get all three of them and do a double-blind ABX with a bunch of people just to see who what percent of people can hear the differences.  I have a pretty good ear and would love to take that test but I am not so sure I could spot which is which.  Not saying there aren't people who can hear the subtle differences.  Since I don't have the $2500 I won't find out.
 
Santa:  I have been a good boy this year and would like an AK240 in my stocking.

 

[Brooko]

  I've never used the X3, but the X5 UI / UX is amateur hour.  The click wheel is too sensitive for the main menu, the folder/file system is bad, and using or building a playlist is next to impossible to figure out.  
 
Want to play three Pink Floyd albums in a row?  Good luck, it'll cue them up by track number, not album.  I loaded Buddha Bar XV, a double CD album on there hoping that I could listen to them in a row as intended.  Nope, it plays them by track number, so I get Song 1 from Album 1 followed by Song 2 from Album 2, etc.  All this would be easy to fix if there was a simple, straightforward way for me to make Playlists, but there isn't.  After six hours of Googling and downloading apps and exporting .m3u files and editing the text in a text editor, I gave up.  It's way... WAY too complicated.
 
The whole experience feels like something made by people with zero understanding of good UI / UX.  It feels like a beta product, or something designed in 1999 from a time before i-devices and easy-to-use interfaces spoiled me.  In the end it's a trade-off: amazing sound for a shockingly awful UI on a $300+ product.  It's a trade-off that, after a week of near constant use, I'm beginning to doubt is worth it.  Others will no doubt disagree.

I'm one of the ones who disagree.
 
Yes their folder play could be better - but it's pretty easy to get playlists working.
 
If you're coming from an eco system like Apple - who've had years to perfect it - you're going to struggle.  Try coming from something like the Studio V3 though, and you'll realise how good the UI is - especially considering how good it sounds.

 

[x RELIC x]

I've never used the X3, but the X5 UI / UX is amateur hour.  The click wheel is too sensitive for the main menu, the folder/file system is bad, and using or building a playlist is next to impossible to figure out.  

Want to play three Pink Floyd albums in a row?  Good luck, it'll cue them up by track number, not album.  I loaded Buddha Bar XV, a double CD album on there hoping that I could listen to them in a row as intended.  Nope, it plays them by track number, so I get Song 1 from Album 1 followed by Song 2 from Album 2, etc.  All this would be easy to fix if there was a simple, straightforward way for me to make Playlists, but there isn't.  After six hours of Googling and downloading apps and exporting .m3u files and editing the text in a text editor, I gave up.  It's way... WAY too complicated.

The whole experience feels like something made by people with zero understanding of good UI / UX.  It feels like a beta product, or something designed in 1999 from a time before i-devices and easy-to-use interfaces spoiled me.  In the end it's a trade-off: amazing sound for a shockingly awful UI on a $300+ product.  It's a trade-off that, after a week of near constant use, I'm beginning to doubt is worth it.  Others will no doubt disagree.

I have a solution if you want to Play All by Artist, one album after the other, it's in FW 2.14b!!

FiiO got the listing perfect in this FW but has since regressed to listing all songs by track number in this category. Listening to all Pink Floyd albums in a marathon benefit from FW 2.14b immensely.

 

[Gnawbert]

I have a solution if you want to Play All by Artist, one album after the other, it's in FW 2.14b!!

FiiO got the listing perfect in this FW but has since regressed to listing all songs by track number in this category. Listening to all Pink Floyd albums in a marathon benefit from FW 2.14b immensely.

Thank you very much, I'll give that a try.

Yeah, I understand some people can get over the User Interface, or might even like it. I'm just not one of those people. If this UI had come out in 1999 I would have been impressed. But it's 2014 and all the little missing things are basic functionality by now. There's no way it should have shipped in such an unpolished state.

For what it's worth I really wanted to love my Fiio... And I do, but only for its sound. Listening to Balmorhea on it right now through my T5Ps while I take the subway and it really is sonic bliss. I'm rediscovering old music with a clarity I haven't heard before.

 

[olddude]

Coming from an iBasso DX50, and before that a Colorfly C3, the way the X5 works (UI) is just fine for me.  I've been asking for folder-to-folder play for a while, but it's really not that important compared to the sound.  If I want a playlist I can make one up in the device, or I can make one up using music files and then putting them in a folder. and labeling it  If I have a double album I just make it a single album by adding the second disc via renumbering it.  It takes very little time when an album (folder) ends to go to menu and choose the next album by the same artist, as they are in order in folder view alpha.  Let's see- hit the power button, hit the upper right button twice to main folder menu, spin click the wheel to the next album by the same artist, push the center button, and it plays.  Takes me about five seconds to go from The Beatles Revolver to The Beatles Rubber Soul.  If I want The Beatles Sgt. Pepper instead I spin the scroll wheel one more album.  Now it's six seconds.  Granted, if I want to choose, say, Dire Straits, I need to spin the dial a bit more.  I doubt I spend more than 10-15 seconds searching for anything I want in folders.  I can afford that time.  And I'm old, I don't have a lot of time left.  

 
No, it's not an Apple product.  Doesn't sound like one, either.  Which is why I moved from Apple players to these.  Does it take more effort than iTunes?  Sure.  Is it so difficult I can't do it?  No.  Is it worth it?  You bet.  Bottom line, it's a "Portable High Resolution Music Player."  Says so on the box.  The thing plays DSD files!  Won't play albums in order automatically?  I can live with it.  Plays music so clearly that I smile when I listen to my music on it- every time? Can't live without it.

 

[Gnawbert]

I agree the sound is the most important, and that's why I've decided to keep this product instead of returning it.  Fiio did a great job in that respect.  And, if trading up from an iBasso or a Colorfly I'm sure the UI would seem like a tremendous upgrade as well, so all in all it's an improvement when coming from that direction.  

However, transitioning over from an iOS device, coming from using a sixth generation iPod Classic, or even using a simple Mac media player like Vox, there's just no comparison on the UI front; Fiio has a way to go.  I have an elegant device full of inelegant Playlist 1, Playlist 2, etc hunt-and-pecked from within the device.  Even with the paths perfectly lined up, .m3u playlists created on my computer are hit or miss.  Sure, when playing albums by the same artist it only takes a few clicks to go back out from Dark Side of the Moon and load up The Division Bell, but most music players have been able to sort this out a long time ago.
 
Can I live with its clunky UI?  Probably.  Am I disappointed?  Yes, very.  Does it have rocking sound that can play DSD files?  Totally!  Sound is 95% of why I bought this device, and it in that respects it hits it out of the park.  I just hope Fiio can dedicate more effort to improving its shortcomings so it's less of a trade-off.

 

[CriticalTodd]

Sorry for rapid fire posting, but this is the response I gave in the other thread which I feel is more appropriate to your question.

No worries, thanks for the replies. I ended up going ahead and grabbing the X5 from B & H (a fairly short walk from my office).

 

[Dobrescu George]

 
No worries, thanks for the replies. I ended up going ahead and grabbing the X5 from B & H (a fairly short walk from my office).

If you can, please tell us how it compares to iDSD..

 

[Jobbing]

Coming from an iBasso DX50, and before that a Colorfly C3, the way the X5 works (UI) is just fine for me.  I've been asking for folder-to-folder play for a while, but it's really not that important compared to the sound.  If I want a playlist I can make one up in the device, or I can make one up using music files and then putting them in a folder. and labeling it  If I have a double album I just make it a single album by adding the second disc via renumbering it.  It takes very little time when an album (folder) ends to go to menu and choose the next album by the same artist, as they are in order in folder view alpha.  Let's see- hit the power button, hit the upper right button twice to main folder menu, spin click the wheel to the next album by the same artist, push the center button, and it plays.  Takes me about five seconds to go from The Beatles Revolver to The Beatles Rubber Soul.  If I want The Beatles Sgt. Pepper instead I spin the scroll wheel one more album.  Now it's six seconds.  Granted, if I want to choose, say, Dire Straits, I need to spin the dial a bit more.  I doubt I spend more than 10-15 seconds searching for anything I want in folders.  I can afford that time.  And I'm old, I don't have a lot of time left.  :wink_face:

No, it's not an Apple product.  Doesn't sound like one, either.  Which is why I moved from Apple players to these.  Does it take more effort than iTunes?  Sure.  Is it so difficult I can't do it?  No.  Is it worth it?  You bet.  Bottom line, it's a "Portable High Resolution Music Player."  Says so on the box.  The thing plays DSD files!  Won't play albums in order automatically?  I can live with it.  Plays music so clearly that I smile when I listen to my music on it- every time? Can't live without it.

Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens

- Jimi Hendrix


Wish more (younger) people would have your attitude

 

[CriticalTodd]

  If you can, please tell us how it compares to iDSD..

 
Will do. Hopefully I'll have a chance to play around with them over the next couple of evenings.
 

  Coming from an iBasso DX50, and before that a Colorfly C3, the way the X5 works (UI) is just fine for me...
 
No, it's not an Apple product.  Doesn't sound like one, either.  Which is why I moved from Apple players to these.  Does it take more effort than iTunes?  Sure.  Is it so difficult I can't do it?  No.  Is it worth it?  You bet.  Bottom line, it's a "Portable High Resolution Music Player."  Says so on the box.  The thing plays DSD files!  Won't play albums in order automatically?  I can live with it.  Plays music so clearly that I smile when I listen to my music on it- every time? Can't live without it.

 

  ...transitioning over from an iOS device, coming from using a sixth generation iPod Classic, or even using a simple Mac media player like Vox, there's just no comparison on the UI front; Fiio has a way to go...
 
Can I live with its clunky UI?  Probably.  Am I disappointed?  Yes, very.  Does it have rocking sound that can play DSD files?  Totally!  Sound is 95% of why I bought this device, and it in that respects it hits it out of the park.  I just hope Fiio can dedicate more effort to improving its shortcomings so it's less of a trade-off.

 
I've only had a couple of hours to play around with the X5 so far but my first impression is that the UI is just a bit clunky and loose. If they tightened up some of the responsiveness and streamlined or better organized some of the features and options, it would help a lot. Also, I wish they would have labeled their buttons in some way. I have to look at the little reference card every time I want to do something because I haven't learned yet which buttons do what. Some simple symbols etched in would make everything much clearer. These DAP makers really need to hire or steal some good UI designers and engineers. For the amount of money these cost, the user experience should be better.
 
That said, I totally agree that the sound is the thing and, so far, my first impressions are very positive and the UI ultimately didn't prevent me from doing anything I wanted to do and mostly got out of my way and let me enjoy the music.
 

---

Postscript #1: Is there a good source for some DSD tracks to test the waters with?
Postscript #2: has anybody tried using iTunesFusion with the X5 to sync playlists and tracks from their iTunes library?

 

[olddude]

Four buttons, not counting the two volume and the power.  Took me five minutes to figure out and learn them (and I'm real old, mind is going... have you seen my car keys?).  Upper right is for menu, lower left and right are for back and forward, upper left I never use (shortcuts).  Oh, and center is to select.  

 

[Alje]

Olddude, how do you find the X5 compared to X1. I have X1 and considering X5, will I notice better SQ? And are the scroll wheels the same on both? I have no problem with the wheel on the X1 but read people complain about the X5 wheel.
Your advice appreciated.