[JamesFiiO]

Nice size comparison.

So James,

Sorry to repeat myself here but will there be replaygain on the X5? I'm loving everything about this DAP but that is a critical point for me. The only other option I have would be to re-encode all my music with gain adjustment applied which is both time consuming and yields lower quality on my lossy files...

 
Yes, I remembered someone asked the same question before. and yes we can support it in the future. but any idea which DAP supports this so we can see how it work first.

 

[starfly]

   
Yes, I remembered someone asked the same question before. and yes we can support it in the future. but any idea which DAP supports this so we can see how it work first.

Hi James,
 
Any DAP with Rockbox on it supports replaygain. It's basically an ID3 tag that states at what gain the file should be played, e.g. at -6 dB. So in terms of programming it in the DAP, wouldn't it be as simple as finding a way to read those tags (just like you can read the Artist/Album/Title, etc. tags) and then lowering the gain when playing back that file?
 
Keep in mind, it's not a calculation the DAP does by itself, it's the user's responsibility to calculate replaygain themselves and insert the tags into their files. All the DAP has to do is readout that tag (it's in the form of AlbumGain and TrackGain, they both do the same, just that when AlbumGain is calculated it tries to normalize the volume of an entire album) and adjust the gain accordingly.
 
Maybe this article will help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replay_Gain

 

[huckfinn]

Hi James,
I have a (maybe) frivolous or shallow request.
Your Daps are meant to sound good and work flawlessly.
However I would like to point out that when you plan for a good looking, original and functional GUI, you shouldn't stop there but also remember that your DAP is also a (great) piece of industrial design.
 
If you look at the iBassos, A&Ks, Hifimans they all look pretty much the same.
The same (oldfashioned) black metal finish.
Let's face it: they are almost undistinguishable from each other.
Sorry to bring up the often despised idevices but they stand up from everybody else exactly because of their great looks.
 
I'm sure you can use your ingenuity in making your DAPs equally original in their design in the future!
 
Many thanks,
Huck

 

[Luvdac]

I imagine not many use the X3 in their main rig because there are better options. The x3 is designed to be primarily a portable player. If you don't need portability then a computer with digital output is a better option with infinitely more storage space (and if you are loading files onto the X3 then I assume that would mean you already own a computer with your music already on it)

Well, i dont really see the point of having a coaxial output for portable use. After all, one of the advantages of having an all in one hi end DAP is that one wont need to strap on an external DAC and end up with a brick. Using a computer for audio playback is highly contentious to say the least because computers are electrically very noisy. If the forthcoming x5 is to have a coaxial out, then should it not be of a quality in keeping with the expectations of the rest of the player? This way it could be used as a transport also for a home or desktop rig. More and more people are using their ipods and other portable devices docked digitally (and otherwise) to their home rigs. I'm sure that in future the quality of the signal coming out of a coaxial connector is going to be a very important sales issue as the shift from cd's to hi res streaming goes mainstream.
If i'm going to fork out 400$ for the x5, I want it to definitely replace a similar priced cd player in my system.
I really appreciate sandalaudio's explanation of the goings on in the digital domain and I feel that james and his team would do well to look into this aspect within the x5. So far, with the x3 the coaxial output just seems an afterthought and more of a sales gimmick, with no concern towards the purity of the signal coming out of it.
I really really hope and wish for an x5 which will truly be a standout player both as a portable and as a standalone transport. Heck, i'd even be willing to pay a bit more!

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

Luvdac, i am sure you have done so but could you explain how you narrow down the sq degradation was in fact caused by x3? You brought up a good point that dap is a handy replacement as digital transport

 

[Luvdac]

Luvdac, i am sure you have done so but could you explain how you narrow down the sq degradation was in fact caused by x3? You brought up a good point that dap is a handy replacement as digital transport

Very simple A/B listening comparison between the sound coming out of the x3 into Jadis DAC and the sound from the cd player also into Jadis  DAC. Cd is Melody Gardot -the absence, and Hi Res file of the same from HDtracks. Not my system tho, my friends system. But spent a couple of hours A B ing them and we were unanimous in concluding that the 16/44 CD was definitely besting the 24/96 Hi res file out of the fiio x3.
Id love to hear from others who have done some comparative tests with the fiio plugged into an outboard DAC and know their impressions.

 

[zilch0md]

It could just be a difference in the remastering of the 96/24 file vs. that of the 44/16 CD.  (You could be comparing apples to oranges.)

 

[Luvdac]

  It could just be a difference in the remastering of the 96/24 file vs. that of the 44/16 CD.  (You could be comparing apples to oranges.)

As far as i know, this particular album of Melody Gardot was recorded in native 24/96. In fact the cd is made from a downsample. most modern recording studios now record natively in 24 or 32 bits with samples ranging from 48 to 192. So if anything, the cd is a lo fi derivative of the original studio recording.
I still would like to hear from some head fiiers out there who are interested in doing comparative listening tests of their own......

 

[kova4a]

  As far as i know, this particular album of Melody Gardot was recorded in native 24/96. In fact the cd is made from a downsample. most modern recording studios now record natively in 24 or 32 bits with samples ranging from 48 to 192. So if anything, the cd is a lo fi derivative of the original studio recording.
I still would like to hear from some head fiiers out there who are interested in doing comparative listening tests of their own......

Well, that's not always true - there are different releases and masterings, so it depends. I don't know which album you're talking about but for reference this is the dynamic range of Melody Gardot album The Absence in 24/96 http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=33074 and this is the same album in a lossy rip from a CD http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=28981 - the lossy rip clearly has superior dynamic range and will sound better even though it is in lossy format.
 
Edit: Actually, I just saw that that's the album you're talking about (sorry, I haven't slept for the past 30 hours). It's a well-known fact that sometimes certain CD releases are better (or on par with) the HDtracks ones even if they have lower resolution and sample rate. That's not HDtracks fault completely coz they just sell what the music studios provide them but a lot of times it's not great at all and people pay extra just for the gimmick that it's hi-res while in fact the dynamics are crushed and the sound is worse. Of course, there are a lot of great quality albums on HDtracks but I've learned my lesson and check all releases before shelling any dough for nothing. That should be your best friend in such situations http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ . of course, aside from sites like hdtracks there are a lot of vinyl rips with high resolution and excellent dynamic range that will be great for a DAP that supports it.
 
So in this case you're right - the CD sounds better but that doesn't make the x3's hi-res support a gimmick - with the right album from HDtracks it will sound better.

 

[shakyphil]

Hi Kova4a

Been lurking on this and the x3 threads for a while but this is my first post. I've been interested in hi res audio for a while but as my home set up is limited by using a sonos as a streamer I haven't really done much research. I then got on with the idea of a dap in an idle moment and found the fan/support on the Fiio x3. I've got a bid on one on the bay at the moment but even If that doesn't come off I will invest at full price. I reply in reference to your last post as I am genuinely interested in hi res but not if it's no better than the CD standard. Excuse my ignorance but am I right in thinking that the better the dynamic range the better the listening experience should be. Therefore as long as the hi res alternative has better dynamic range it is a worthy buy. If so, is there any other consideration to factor in (other than dynamic range) available on any other comparison type website? Currently use sennheiser cx300 with apple products (alac on the go and WAV for the home set up) but I'm looking forward to the step up to the x3 and when budget allows I intend to look at the sennheiser ie80. Does anyone have any thoughts on that combination? I currently have a mdac running in my home set up and so I'm also looking forward to the idea of using a dap as a source. I love my sonos and I wouldn't change it but I do like the idea of trying the mdac with some higher res audio. I've enjoyed this thread and love the input from JamesFiiO and other members concerning the x5. It works well and was similarly successful with the mdac/westlake combination on pink fish media. All the best. Cheers

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/

Thanks for this useful link!

 

[Mark K]

Oops...I missed so many replies here. As the instant adopter of X3 which I paid 259, I hate this player so much....the GUI is so ancient and the build quality so flimsy. However, as long as we (my other fellow audio geeks) put our headphones on, the sound quality simply blow us away. It is, comparing to my older source, including various smartphone playing hd flac, iPod classic, iRiver H340, much cleaner. My X3 goes everywhere with me...the bus, gym, pool and on the road.
I haven't however, connected X3 to my desktop gear which includes inexpensive DACs like NA7004, mDac, newer Philips DVP 9700 etc etc. 
We have really high hopes for X5 so James, do not disappoint us.

 

[Luvdac]

  Well, that's not always true - there are different releases and masterings, so it depends. I don't know which album you're talking about but for reference this is the dynamic range of Melody Gardot album The Absence in 24/96 http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=33074 and this is the same album in a lossy rip from a CD http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/details.php?id=28981 - the lossy rip clearly has superior dynamic range and will sound better even though it is in lossy format.
 
Edit: Actually, I just saw that that's the album you're talking about (sorry, I haven't slept for the past 30 hours). It's a well-known fact that sometimes certain CD releases are better (or on par with) the HDtracks ones even if they have lower resolution and sample rate. That's not HDtracks fault completely coz they just sell what the music studios provide them but a lot of times it's not great at all and people pay extra just for the gimmick that it's hi-res while in fact the dynamics are crushed and the sound is worse. Of course, there are a lot of great quality albums on HDtracks but I've learned my lesson and check all releases before shelling any dough for nothing. That should be your best friend in such situations http://www.dr.loudness-war.info/ . of course, aside from sites like hdtracks there are a lot of vinyl rips with high resolution and excellent dynamic range that will be great for a DAP that supports it.
 
So in this case you're right - the CD sounds better but that doesn't make the x3's hi-res support a gimmick - with the right album from HDtracks it will sound better.

thanks for your informative answer.I do appreciate the sincerity behind your research into the matter. I have some rudimentary tech knowledge, however when it comes to music I like to trust my ears. Theoretically what you are saying seems right and maybe the source file may be the problem. Having said that, my friend (the owner of the x3 and assorted Jadis equipment- we are at the moment separated by a distance of 6000 kms so I cant corroborate first hand!) has been experimenting and A/B ing a large selection of music in different genres and he stands firm in his perception that the overall soundstage remains 'constricted' through the x3. My friend is well respected in Hi-end audio circles in Switzerland, and beleive me he does so much want the x3 to sound superior!(He enjoys it very much as a portable device) I think the only way we are going to come to a better understanding of the quality of the fiio's coaxial out is if head fiiers come up with their own A/B listening tests. After all we all want the same thing-A better, top notch player in the x5.
So folks, how about it? A/B blind listening thru the coaxial out vs the cd of the same music. Its all for a better x5...hopefully!
James, your input please?

 

[T.R.A.N.C.E.]

I'm getting the X5, to compare to my dx50. I'm also getting the sony zx1. Here's hoping  fiio did a good job on the implementation of PCM1792 and did some thorough investigation into what op amps to use in the amp section. Both of these things could have been much better in the x3, so I hope fiio have learned something and picked up their game, because if done right, the x5 can destroy the competition.

 

[AmberOzL]

Any news? I am dieing to learn more about it. Come on James, make a high end dap for an affordable price so people will have a real winner.