[AmberOzL]

  That is the last thing this hobby is about.
I would it do like you are suggesting there. Well except for the X5...more interested in the DX90

If you gonna use it with coax out to feed Hugo, you don't need DX90's dual dac chips, you gonna bypass them anyway. You need high capacity, which X5 bests the DX90.

 

[7ryder]

   
That would be true under most circumstances, but not in this echo chamber of a hobby. Allow me to dust off my crystal ball and describe what will take place over the next few months...if the AK240 is not clearly above the competition (and I believe MUST, given that it costs double the price of its competitors).
 
1) Someone who doesn't care will buy an AK240. Likewise, others will receive a sample AK240.
 
2) Said individuals will defend their new purchase, despite how they feel about its performance. Likewise, the selected reviewers will want to talk about the product in a way that ensures they get more in the future.
 
3) People who read these glowing reviews will be convinced to buy these DAPs. Most will, again, try to defend their purchase. Only a few will speak out, but those few will be silenced. I've seen this happen before several times. I remember a certain IEM that had a wonky sounding midrange to a lot of folks. But one member shouted from the top of a rooftop that these iems had no such issue at all. Later, he confided to me via PM that he was using fabric filters to get the IEM to sound normal. This is what the consumer is up against.
 
4) A&K's strategy will have worked, leading to the sale of units for them, but also the impetus to continue with price increases.
 
5) More DAP makers will see this and want in on the action. I predict more $2k+ DAPs within the next 6-12 months.

Yeah, people may do that...but many people do the same on this forum to justify both "giant killers" (that maybe aren't) as well as expensive purchases as you outline above. But is rationalizing like this any different than people complaining about the AK240's build quality, SQ and/or price, just because they can't afford it?  I don't think so.
 
As for profit margins, none of us know what A&K's profit margin is on these DAPs once all their development costs and bill of materials (BOM) are factored in.  If those of you who are calling A&K "greedy bastards" can support your claim with some hard facts, please do. 
 
For example, if we were talking iPhones and you called Apple greedy based upon what they make on the iPhone 5S, you'd probably be correct based upon the facts: 
 
The 16GB iPhone 5S costs Apple approximately $199 to manufacture, while the plastic 16GB iPhone 5C runs $173. With no wireless subsidy, Apple sells the iPhone 5S, starting at $649 for a 16GB model and the iPhone 5C for $549, just $100 less. That's a profit of $450 on every 5S sold and they make $376 on every 5C which is just a plastic knockoff of 2012's iPhone 5.  So that's a profit margin of 68% for the 5C and 69% for the 5S.   source: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242677/Teardowns_reveal_Apple_s_customary_high_margins_for_both_iPhone_5S_i_and_i_5C
 
...damn, based upon these margins and the quantities they sell, they ARE greedy bastards! 

 and now I've also gone and upset the fanboys! 

 
But absent info like this, everything so far said about the AK240's price and A&K's pricing strategy is just opinion and, like someone else said, if you don't like the DAP or its pricing, why hang around here bitching about it? I'm here because I'm interested in learning more about its SQ and if it truly is "X" times better than the AK120.
 
So can we give the whole "price is right"/"price is not right" thing a rest for a while until people have had a chance to test drive them? Then, even if we don't know what the BOM is for these, we can talk about if it is worth its asking price.

 

[ianmedium]

7Ryder..

Well Said!

 

[eke2k6]

  Yeah, people may do that...but many people do the same on this forum to justify both "giant killers" (that maybe aren't) as well as expensive purchases as you outline above. But is rationalizing like this any different than people complaining about the AK240's build quality, SQ and/or price, just because they can't afford it?  I don't think so.
 
As for profit margins, none of us know what A&K's profit margin is on these DAPs once all their development costs and bill of materials (BOM) are factored in.  If those of you who are calling A&K "greedy bastards" can support your claim with some hard facts, please do. 
 
For example, if we were talking iPhones and you called Apple greedy based upon what they make on the iPhone 5S, you'd probably be correct based upon the facts: 
 
The 16GB iPhone 5S costs Apple approximately $199 to manufacture, while the plastic 16GB iPhone 5C runs $173. With no wireless subsidy, Apple sells the iPhone 5S, starting at $649 for a 16GB model and the iPhone 5C for $549, just $100 less. That's a profit of $450 on every 5S sold and they make $376 on every 5C which is just a plastic knockoff of 2012's iPhone 5.  So that's a profit margin of 68% for the 5C and 69% for the 5S.   source: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242677/Teardowns_reveal_Apple_s_customary_high_margins_for_both_iPhone_5S_i_and_i_5C
 
...damn, based upon these margins and the quantities they sell, they ARE greedy bastards! 

 and now I've also gone and upset the fanboys! 

 
But absent info like this, everything so far said about the AK240's price and A&K's pricing strategy is just opinion and, like someone else said, if you don't like the DAP or its pricing, why hang around here bitching about it? I'm here because I'm interested in learning more about its SQ and if it truly is "X" times better than the AK120.
 
So can we give the whole "price is right"/"price is not right" thing a rest for a while until people have had a chance to test drive them? Then, even if we don't know what the BOM is for these, we can talk about if it is worth its asking price.

 
Is this a joke? Can't afford it? I'm set to make over $130,000 a year as a 23 year old with no children, nor student loans to pay off. I can afford whatever the hell I want. The point I've been trying to make is that our little hobby is in danger of creeping ever closer to the point of the ridiculous speaker world, where my entire yearly salary can't even buy some speaker systems.
 
You know what? Thank you for bringing up Apple and every other smartphone/electronics manufacturer. These people put out radically improved devices EVERY YEAR for the SAME PRICE. That is innovation. Last year, the AK100 was $550. Then came the AK100 MK2 that fixed the impedance engineering flaw of the AK100, yet they have the gall to charge even more for it. The AK120 came out with an additional $5 DAC and a fancy leather case for double the price of its predecessor. Source: http://www.findchips.com/avail/?part=WM8740&partner=18&utm_source=18&utm_medium=Link
 
Now comes a new DAP from them with basically the same design, but different (allegedly inferior) chips, and an additional output....for DOUBLE THE PRICE. 
 
 
Fanboys? You've guaranteed that I'll never take you seriously again. I'll stop now before I post something Currawong makes me regret later.

 

[OK-Guy]

  ...damn, based upon these margins and the quantities they sell, they ARE greedy bastards! 

 and now I've also gone and upset the fanboys! 

 
I can pick-up a new AK120 for $850 USD and get it sent to the UK as a 'gift' say $900 all in.
 
the average UK price for a AK120 is £1100 GBP, if you take off the VAT(tax) you are looking at a unit price of around £900 ($1470 USD).
 
based on that, UK dealers will be salivating at the prospect of getting AK240's.

 

[doublea71]

Unsubscribed. Mods, please do everyone a favor and lock this thread - it serves no purpose. 

 

[z3r0day]

  Yeah, people may do that...but many people do the same on this forum to justify both "giant killers" (that maybe aren't) as well as expensive purchases as you outline above. But is rationalizing like this any different than people complaining about the AK240's build quality, SQ and/or price, just because they can't afford it?  I don't think so.
 
As for profit margins, none of us know what A&K's profit margin is on these DAPs once all their development costs and bill of materials (BOM) are factored in.  If those of you who are calling A&K "greedy bastards" can support your claim with some hard facts, please do. 
 
For example, if we were talking iPhones and you called Apple greedy based upon what they make on the iPhone 5S, you'd probably be correct based upon the facts: 
 
The 16GB iPhone 5S costs Apple approximately $199 to manufacture, while the plastic 16GB iPhone 5C runs $173. With no wireless subsidy, Apple sells the iPhone 5S, starting at $649 for a 16GB model and the iPhone 5C for $549, just $100 less. That's a profit of $450 on every 5S sold and they make $376 on every 5C which is just a plastic knockoff of 2012's iPhone 5.  So that's a profit margin of 68% for the 5C and 69% for the 5S.   source: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242677/Teardowns_reveal_Apple_s_customary_high_margins_for_both_iPhone_5S_i_and_i_5C
 
...damn, based upon these margins and the quantities they sell, they ARE greedy bastards! 

 and now I've also gone and upset the fanboys! 

 
But absent info like this, everything so far said about the AK240's price and A&K's pricing strategy is just opinion and, like someone else said, if you don't like the DAP or its pricing, why hang around here bitching about it? I'm here because I'm interested in learning more about its SQ and if it truly is "X" times better than the AK120.
 
So can we give the whole "price is right"/"price is not right" thing a rest for a while until people have had a chance to test drive them? Then, even if we don't know what the BOM is for these, we can talk about if it is worth its asking price.

 
Sure the components cost 200 bux, but thats only the tip of the iceberg. You need to take manufacturing cost, handling, online services (you get iCloud for free), and most importantly, software design, into consideration. I have yet to encounter a mobile device that just works beautifully other than an iDevice.
 
Annnnd if you think about it... iRiver charges more for a poorly designed DAP aka AK100 for more...

 

 

[OK-Guy]

   
 I have yet to encounter a mobile device that just works beautifully other than an iDevice.

 
errr.... ZX1?

 

[OK-Guy]

find a way to cut out the Dealer (Ebay), do a deal over Customs, get Tracked delivery and you'll have a reasonably priced DAP (AK120)... the savings to be had would pay for a Vinnie-mod or a decent set of headphones.
 
just use your common-sense.

 

[burtomr]

 
I can pick-up a new AK120 for $850 USD....
 

 
Really? Care to mention where? If it's a secret you can PM me.

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

 
If you gonna use it with coax out to feed Hugo, you don't need DX90's dual dac chips, you gonna bypass them anyway. You need high capacity, which X5 bests the DX90.

I think it is best not to assume the X5 coaxial out is the same or better than the one on DX90. And that Chord Hugo will immediately sound better than X5, DX90 or AK240... I think it is fair since none of these products are widely available. It is personal audio and we can only trust ourselves.

 

[OK-Guy]

   
Really? Care to mention where? If it's a secret you can PM me.

 
I won't kill the goose so to speak but I'll ask, pm me tomorrow.
 
btw... even though this option has been available to me for quite a while I preferred the SQ of my Z1070 when I compared both (RB-lossless)... it's all about flavours & what suits you best.

 

[z3r0day]

   
errr.... ZX1?

 
ZX1 is close.

 

[eso6686]

Yeah, people may do that...but many people do the same on this forum to justify both "giant killers" (that maybe aren't) as well as expensive purchases as you outline above. But is rationalizing like this any different than people complaining about the AK240's build quality, SQ and/or price, just because they can't afford it?  I don't think so.
 
As for profit margins, none of us know what A&K's profit margin is on these DAPs once all their development costs and bill of materials (BOM) are factored in.  If those of you who are calling A&K "greedy bastards" can support your claim with some hard facts, please do. 
 
For example, if we were talking iPhones and you called Apple greedy based upon what they make on the iPhone 5S, you'd probably be correct based upon the facts: 
 
The 16GB iPhone 5S costs Apple approximately $199 to manufacture, while the plastic 16GB iPhone 5C runs $173. With no wireless subsidy, Apple sells the iPhone 5S, starting at $649 for a 16GB model and the iPhone 5C for $549, just $100 less. That's a profit of $450 on every 5S sold and they make $376 on every 5C which is just a plastic knockoff of 2012's iPhone 5.  So that's a profit margin of 68% for the 5C and 69% for the 5S.   source: http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9242677/Teardowns_reveal_Apple_s_customary_high_margins_for_both_iPhone_5S_i_and_i_5C
 
...damn, based upon these margins and the quantities they sell, they ARE greedy bastards! 

 and now I've also gone and upset the fanboys! 

 
But absent info like this, everything so far said about the AK240's price and A&K's pricing strategy is just opinion and, like someone else said, if you don't like the DAP or its pricing, why hang around here bitching about it? I'm here because I'm interested in learning more about its SQ and if it truly is "X" times better than the AK120.
 
So can we give the whole "price is right"/"price is not right" thing a rest for a while until people have had a chance to test drive them? Then, even if we don't know what the BOM is for these, we can talk about if it is worth its asking price.

 


That is only the cost of manufacturing..how about R&D , patients, design fee,ios development, security, ..etc just to name a few. There is a whole lot more to the cost than that. The actual manufactoring of the product is probably the cheapest compared to all the other expenses.

 

[CosmicHolyGhost]

List price for AK240 in Hong Kong is 20,800HKD (2680USD). Official now.