[Notorious P.I.G.]

Quote:

Originally posted by rsaavedr And with a poll like this he will gather very insufficient and misleading data to gather any valid conclusion, that was my only point.

What, specifically, is wrong with his poll?

How is his data misleading or insufficient?

Why would his conclusion, if any, not be valid?

 

[rsaavedra]

Making the observation I made doesn't mean I was bashing this poll at all. It is interesting, but just keep a critical mind with respect to statistics gathered too easily, with biases in the population sampled etc. I would like to say one of my favorite books is "How to lie with statistics". That's my excuse for my post, not that I wanted to bash anything.

 

[fiddler]

Quote:

Originally posted by Notorious P.I.G. What, specifically, is wrong with his poll? How is his data misleading or insufficient? Why would his conclusion, if any, not be valid?

Why are we, the hell, taking this so seriously!?

 

[Notorious P.I.G.]

We shouldn't be.

But, if he is going to continue his disparagement, then he/she can at least back it up.

 

[sleepkyng]

i think the real question is:

is gradofan a grado fan?

sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[Textual Intercou]

Quote:

Originally posted by fiddler Why are we, the hell, taking this so seriously!?

if we're going to be critical, who the hell is 'the hell'?

eh? eh? eeeeeeeh?

 

[Notorious P.I.G.]

Is that an apposition or appositive...something like that?

Piggy.

 

[rsaavedra]

Well again, no reason to get serious into research methodology and controlled surveys. But weak points in this poll:

Define musician? Someone who works/worked professionally as a musician? Someone that has had complete formal musical education? Both of the above? Or maybe some degree of formal musical education enough? What degree if so?

Define grado fan, and grado "non-fan". Headfier's, musicians or not, may like some grados, and may not like some other Grados. Where do they fall, are they grado fans? Are they "grado non-fans"? Would those be grado fans *and* non fans? Would they be fans only if they like more than half the models they've tried?

So the categories are blurred, not very accurately defined.

Also, how representative is the sample population? Headfiers that vote here, or all Headfiers let's say, and web users, are all very specific (e.g. potentially biased, not necessarily representative) subsets of the populations of people that might be grado fans vs. non-fans vs. haven't heard grado's. Same applies for representatives of overall populations of musicians vs non-musicians (regardless of how musician is defined). For one thing, the population voting here is certainly strongly biased in terms of country of origin, sex, age group, and income level, to say a few.

 

[Zanth]

Quote:

Originally posted by amartignano I'm a musician and I like Grados very much. I think that musicians don't bother too much of the upfront stage of the Grados because we are always near our instrument. But it's not only this. Grados have armonic reconstruction of each instrument timbre that it's almost unheard in other dynamic cans. That's only my opinion of course! Ciao Andrea

And I agree with this opinion. I am obviously a Grado fan AND I am a musician.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally posted by amartignano Grados have armonic reconstruction of each instrument timbre that it's almost unheard in other dynamic cans

Well put. I play the clarinet and Grados and only Grados can properly capture (or simulate) the timbre most correctly (assuming it's well recorded of course)

 

[Porksoda]

Quote:

Originally posted by Beagle Well put. I play the clarinet and Grados and only Grados can properly capture (or simulate) the timbre most correctly (assuming it's well recorded of course)

but why would you WANT to??

That having been said, I'm a French Horn player and I definitely prefer listening to music from inside the ensemble as a performer to being in the audience, the only exception being listening to an orchestra so good I have no hope of ever being on stage with them.

I like the up-front feeling of being inside an orchestra. Various instruments sound from all around you, giving music a very spatial element that I really like. I liken it to being "inside" a swiss watch; parts churning all around you to their pre-determined pulse. I love this especially with particularly good ensebles. "Clockwork" is the only word I can think of to describe a good allegro up on stage. I suppose ultimately phones won't ever be able to reproduce that.

Guess I'll just have to keep on performing

Perhaps with slower works, where blending plays a larger role, I could see perferring the sound from the audience, but for faster pieces, where separation and counterpoint becomes more important, I definitely prefer my seat 2nd row from the back, a little to the left

Never tried grados; looking foreward to doing so at a meet in the near future

 

[rsaavedra]

Quote:

Originally posted by Porksoda I like the up-front feeling of being inside an orchestra. Various instruments sound from all around you, giving music a very spatial element that I really like. I liken it to being "inside" a swiss watch; parts churning all around you to their pre-determined pulse.

That is a very good image I think, even though the "watch" notion seems to make the sound closed, the orchestra can become the whole universe around you, not an enclosed thing surrounding you I think. I don't play instruments, well a bit of piano, but used to sing in a choir as a barytone, and a few times we sang choral parts with some orchestras. In particular I remember we were part of the choir for something by Debussy, not sure if it was "La Mer"? Being at the choir stage is not really being "inside" the orchestra but more next to it I guess. Anyway the powerful sounds hit you quite differently from the perspective of the audience, the feeling is truly exhilarating, a huge live machinery right next to you pulsating like a living thing.

 

[Chinchy]

I'm sure it's been discussed before, but as a drummer, the music tends to sound a little backwards. Mostly because the sounds we hear from behind the drums are directly opposite of what the audience hears. What's on the left for us sounds on the right for them, and vice versa.

Hey I can make the sentence totally ambiguous!:

What's left for us sounds right to them.

Neat.

 

[Porksoda]

Quote:

Originally posted by rsaavedr That is a very good image I think, even though the "watch" notion seems to make the sound closed, the orchestra can become the whole universe around you, not an enclosed thing surrounding you I think. I don't play instruments, well a bit of piano, but used to sing in a choir as a barytone, and a few times we sang choral parts with some orchestras. In particular I remember we were part of the choir for something by Debussy, not sure if it was "La Mer"? Being at the choir stage is not really being "inside" the orchestra but more next to it I guess. Anyway the powerful sounds hit you quite differently from the perspective of the audience, the feeling is truly exhilarating, a huge live machinery right next to you pulsating like a living thing.

I think you are extending my watch metaphor a little too far

on an unrelated note, I've played La Mer! An arrangement of it with no choir that is. Can't remember whether it was with a band or an orchestra...

I've been known to get so engrossed in listening to the orchestra during long rests that I miss all my entrances! I'm just sitting there, listening away, and suddenly I get blasted with a huge "BWAAA!!!" from the horn on my left

 

[oneeyedhobbit]

Quote:

Originally posted by Porksoda but why would you WANT to?? That having been said, I'm a French Horn player and I definitely prefer listening to music from inside the ensemble as a performer to being in the audience, the only exception being listening to an orchestra so good I have no hope of ever being on stage with them. I like the up-front feeling of being inside an orchestra. Various instruments sound from all around you, giving music a very spatial element that I really like. I liken it to being "inside" a swiss watch; parts churning all around you to their pre-determined pulse. I love this especially with particularly good ensebles. "Clockwork" is the only word I can think of to describe a good allegro up on stage. I suppose ultimately phones won't ever be able to reproduce that. Guess I'll just have to keep on performing Perhaps with slower works, where blending plays a larger role, I could see perferring the sound from the audience, but for faster pieces, where separation and counterpoint becomes more important, I definitely prefer my seat 2nd row from the back, a little to the left Never tried grados; looking foreward to doing so at a meet in the near future

The problem, I feel, is that you are no longer getting accurate balance here. As I said earlier, when I play trumept in an ensemble, there are times when I'm thinking, "Man, the conducters a moron, I'm just going to blast, no way the audience can here me anymore." Well, one day said conducter told one of the other trumpets to match my volume and tossed me in the auditorium. I was...humbled...to say the least. The balance was all off, just like I feel it is on stage with a group. The sound is unique, and I love playing on stage with a great ensemble, but when I really really want to critically listen out in the auditorium is the only place to be--proper balance and (assuming its a good auditorium) acoustics.