[Czilla9000]

There is no doubt that platinum looks cool...

I got those numbers from here : http://www-tech.mit.edu/Chemicool/

 

[Orpheus]

well, i don't doubt your numbers. i'm sure they're accurate. what i mean is, perhaps there's something different about the elemental Pt and the platinum used on my binding posts. according to the rep, the platinum is slightly worse than gold, but perhaps a very small amount.... maybe 1-5% at most difference. the binding posts themselves look trick, and they match the polished chrome of the amp........... so........... they better not be that bad!

and the company's WBT... and they are pretty well known for having some of the best binding posts/sockets/connectors in the business. the binding posts themselves are 70% copper, then directly flashed with a good thick coating of platinum without a base layer between the copper and platinum. it's one of their top-of-the-line models. costed more than $200 for those binding posts!

 

[Ebonyks]

IMHO, platinum is more of a novelty than anything else. Sure, it has it's uses, and the final plate material, if in small quanity, is rather insignificant (Hell, just look a rhodium connectors, it's a fairly poor conductor, 8th overall but the stuff reacts to practically nothing.)

It's probably refered to litz braiding as it's done with litz wire

And on the topic of bullet plugs, have you ever acually A-B'ed them with other populiar plugs (Vampire, WBT, etc)?

 

[Orpheus]

"It's probably refered to litz braiding as it's done with litz wire "

...i'm still not sure what you mean. do you mean that this braid uses litz wire?--well, like i said, neither Cardas nor Kimber uses real litz wire, even though they claim to. i have read what they said, and they are wrong. just cause they're big companies doesn't mean there's some snake oil in what they say.

and no, i haven't a-b'd the plugs. i just read the description on their web site which someone showed me. the logic behind it is flawed. that's all i'm saying. the thing is, i personally don't think any human can hear the difference between this and that plug. but like you, i always want the best...... so, if you're saying that these plugs are $15/each and are copper, well, then i'd agree, they are good deals for what you're getting. however, i personally wouldn't use them just cause they make no sense. but if you don't care about the science behind them.... $15 for a copper plug is a darn good deal. yes.

 

[Ebonyks]

An example of litz braiding is HSA cables. It's the the braiding of individually insolated wires, into a cable. I realize companies like cardas and kimber are not litz braids, as they don't use insolation material. Both use enameled copper, no? (Other than some kimber cables using silver)

And the bullet plugs are 15 bucks for a pair, 7.50 for a single plug. The science aside, many cable manufactuers tend to use the bullet plugs, so basic logic implies that there's some methiod to the madness. Besides, let your ears guide you

 

[Orpheus]

wow.... $15 for a PAIR. that's pretty good for a copper plug!

(i still wouldn't use them though

)

...but my point about the litz thing is that braiding has nothing to do with litz's designs. it doesn't even address the same issues. that's what i am saying. so they need to find another name..... like i dunno.... "someone else braid."

 

[Czilla9000]

I COULD BE WRONG....But if the Kimber Kables have stranded copper (NON Litz) in each braid, and there is more than one braid on each cable (more than one isolated conductor, LITZ), this would mean it would be a HYBRID Litz/stranded design.


Thus you are both right

.


Also I would not worry too much about the platinum plating. Most cables have Rhodium or Nickel as final plating - both of which are pretty bad.

In fact there is one cable company that makes cables out of a copper/Pd (which has almost the same conductivity as Pt) with good results.

 

[Punslayer]

Orpheus,

Litz isn't a person its short for Litzendraht, which incidentaly means woven wire. Have a look here.

 

[Orpheus]

sorry, couldn't get the link to work... can you cut and paste? i would like to read. but i'm sure you're right. thank you. but the braiding still has nothing to do with litz wire, and its applications to reduce skin effect. i quote:

"Litz wires consist of a bundle of very thin, individually insulated conductors. The insulation ensures that the current flows in all of the wires in the bundle as the charge cannot migrate towards the surface of the bundle. The entire cross section of conductor bundle is therefore used by the charge transport. Provided that the individual strands are thin enough, the strands all have individual radii that are small compared to the skin depth at audio frequencies. Hence the overall properties of the Litz bundle tends to be similar to that of a single wire of the same diameter of the bundle but where ~{!.~}skin effect~{!/~} is apparently absent."

that is what a litz wire is about. not braiding.

 

[Punslayer]

http://home.att.net/~chimeraone/audiolitzwirebraid.html

that's the url. A search on "litz wire" will also turn up quite a few results, some of which will mention that braiding is one of the techniques used to construct litz wire. One thing they also point out is that it isn't only the insulation of each strand that's important, but also arranging them in a regular fashion.

one other interesting thing that'll come out of a search is that in order to reduce skin effect it's desireable to increase rather than decrease the surface area, which makes sense if you think about it.

 

[Orpheus]

well, it makes sense if you are making the wire closer to the skin depth........ so perhaps extra super duper thin ribbon........

.......but i will go ahead and the articles later.

by the way, how would braiding have anything to do with skin effect?

thanks.

 

[Punslayer]

As far as why braiding would be important... you got me, i'm no electrical engineer. I guess it would increase the separation of the strands, when you braid wires there ends up being a lot of air between individual strands. But i dunno.

When i build cables i like to use very small gauge solid core wires braided together for each conductor, then i braid each of those lines together for the cable. For RCA cables i add a floating shield, just to bring the number of strands up to three cause you can't braid two. Why do i do that? Because i like the way it looks and it makes a nice package that i don't have to add some sort of covering over the top of to keep it together. How does it sound? I dunno, my setup certainly lacks the resolution to hear differences in cables and i only have cheapy cables to compare to anyway. All i know is that it carries sound from my source to my amp and that's my main concern

 

[ddriveman]

Czilla9000,

Another parameter to be considered is the grain size (or boundaries) in the wire. Current is actually composed of electrons flowing from a lower voltage potentil to a higher voltage potential. Hence, it makes sense that if the wire is a single continuous crystal which is just one grain, there are no grain boundaries for the electrons to go through. Thus tehre are quite a few companies touting "single crystal" wire using "continous casting" process e.g. harmonic technology and acoustic zen.

 

[Czilla9000]

I have no idea how braiding can effect the signal - but it seems as if there is a lot of evidence that is does.




BTW - on the topic of skin effect, I got this from AudioQuests tech page:

"There is some disagreement as to whether skin-effect is relevant at audio frequencies. The argument concerns whether skin-effect causes damage other than simply power loss. Since the 3dB down point (50% power loss) for a certain size strand might be at 50,000Hz, not everyone understands the mechanism by which skin-effect is a problem at audio frequencies (20-20,000Hz). However, the problems are very real and very audible. This is because well before skin-effect causes a substantial power loss, it causes changes in resistance and inductance. Skin-effect causes different frequencies to encounter different electrical values at different distances from the surface of a conductor. "

 

[fiddler]

Sorry, saw this thread late but I think it's worth mentioning that proper Litz construction also means that each strands sees the outside of the bundle equally, i.e. spends the same amount of time on the inside and outside as all the other strands. Hence, it has to be either twisted or braided in a specific manner to be considered truly Litz.

http://www.mwswire.com/litzmain.htm