[J.Villain]

So I wouldn't expect the first batch to actually ship before the start of February at best.

I was pretty excited when the picture of the remote was posted. When the next post was that they were still preparing to build boards in China I came to the same conclusion. The problem for me is come spring the Realizer is kind of useless to me until fall, so it looks like it maybe be close to a year before I can get any use out of mine.

 

[Edwood]

The Realiser A16 in use with XBox One and the "Chat" input has not really been discussed. I'm hoping the A16 does not suffer ground loop buzzing noises often accompanied with wired controllers. I use a wired controller, so I'm hoping it does not.

 

[Sordel]

The problem for me is come spring the Realizer is kind of useless to me until fall, so it looks like it maybe be close to a year before I can get any use out of mine.

Having waited fruitlessly for the Smyth & Ossic Kickstarters to deliver for so long I caved and bought a new surround system to replace the one that broke down eighteen months ago. First world problems, I know, but I wish these project starters would realise that we're not all swimming in gold coins here and that their failure to deliver on their undertakings actually has a knock-on effect on people's lives & lifestyles.

 

[462429]

...
You can connect amplifiers, power amplifiers or active speakers to the 16 channel analog outputs (in most cases you would need stereo 3.5 mm jack to 2 times RCA/Cinch cables).
...

When you say ...amplifiers, power amplifiers... you probably mean ...integrated amplifiers, power amplifiers...
But since integrated amplifier contains the preamplifier already, don't we have two preamplifiers in a row here?

I give my "Like" to this equation and express my assumption that the members RIR and HRTF probably preserve their individuality inside the sum (PRIR) making it possible for one PRIR's RIR to be improved (replaced) by another PRIR's RIR on the file level.

I am sorry, I don’t understand what you mean. Are you referring to personalization of BRIRs? If that is what you mean, Stephen Smyth says the first tier in performance is a PRIR in room with good acoustics and a second tier would be BRIR in a room with good acoustics, personalized in the exchange site, using a PRIR made in any room you have available.

I wanted to check - if the PRIR's parts 'RIR' and HRTF were really separable (and not eventually inseparably interlaced). In other words - whether the 'second tier' was really possible at all. And it is great that it is I mistakenly used the term another PRIR's RIR instead of another man PRIR's RIR which is BRIR's RIR, right?

 

[sander99]

When you say ...amplifiers, power amplifiers... you probably mean ...integrated amplifiers, power amplifiers...
But since integrated amplifier contains the preamplifier already, don't we have two preamplifiers in a row here?

That is correct. Although that would not be an ideal situation (amongst other things because at least in theory you would have extra sound quality degradation), it is possible to do it. On one of the preamplifiers you would have to turn the volume up very high, maybe even maximum or close to maximum. If you use the same amplifier with other sources (with full line level output) great care should be taken when switching between sources! If you forget to first turn the volume down it could become very unpleasant for the speakers and the neighbours. This (using integrated amps or av receivers with analog 7.1 input) was meant more as the fun approach, with things you might have laying around or can buy cheap on the second hand market.

 

[jgazal]

I mistakenly used the term another PRIR's RIR instead of another man PRIR's RIR which is BRIR's RIR, right?

I would not say “BRIR’s RIR”:

There is a room impulse response for each (Length x Width x Height; x,y,z) coordinates of a given room. A RIR can be measured by playing a chirp sweep from 20hz to 20khz from a source in a given coordinate. The microphone will capture early reflections and reverberation at another given coordinate. Change those source and microphone coordinates/spots and RIR is going to be different. Room enhancement DSPs use RIR to compute equalization for a given listening spot (Digital Room Equalisation - Michael Gerzon), (...). A binaural room impulse response - BRIR (also head room impulse response - HRIR or personal room impulse response - PRIR, when you want to say that it refers to the unique BRIR of the listener) is also dependent of the coordinates in which it is measured. But instead you measure with two microphones at the same time at the entrance of a human head or dummy head. (...) Such BRIR integrates not only the combined acoustic signature of loudspeakers and room, but also the HRTF of the dummy head or the human wearing the microphones.

Smyth Research asserts that:

For clarity, the term PRIR means a measurement file made using the member’s own head. A BRIR means a measurement file made using some other head.
Realiser Exchange ‐ a new Virtual Audio Exchange website

I wanted to check - if the PRIR's parts 'RIR' and HRTF were really separable (and not eventually inseparably interlaced). In other words - whether the 'second tier' was really possible at all.
And it is great that it is.

Smyth Research also asserts that:

1. Personalisation of a BRIR
A BRIR of a high fidelity sound room can be personalised using information from a member’s PRIR. The algorithm comprises a three step process and has the capability to dramatically improve the localisation of the loudspeakers and suppress unnatural room colouration. It does not alter the nature of the room acoustics nor the reverberation. While personalising a BRIR is unlikely to ever sound superior to a PRIR made by the member in the same room, the improvement can be very useful where this is not an option and will often result in better sounding room than a PRIR made in a regular room. As a result, this option should give members access to a much wider selection of decent sounding files.
Realiser Exchange ‐ a new Virtual Audio Exchange website

 

[sander99]

The problem for me is come spring the Realizer is kind of useless to me until fall

How's that?
You want to spent the summer outdoors? -> you can sit in the garden with your headphones on enjoying 3D sound without bothering anyone (and maybe put your tv inside in front of the window so you can watch a movie from outside)
You are going on a long trip? -> take the realiser with you
You have to work on an oilrig all summer? -> take the realiser with you
You are going on a space mission to the International Space Station? -> take the realiser with you

 

[hekeli]

Hmm. It's going to be hard to be very convincing that you're actually listening to a home theater setup if the LFE doesn't really sound similar; and most headphones do not sound like a subwoofer at all, even basshead versions.

With A8 you simply use your own external EQ to fix/boost the bass levels, rising boost from 100hz -> 20hz required anyway to emulate hearing / give a bit of body sensation. LCD2/LCD3 or HD800 (I've had all) can give a massive clean rumble, of course the headphone quality matters, there's no way around it. The convolution/reverb process does make the bass sound "LFE-enough", I didn't say bass isn't processed at all (just not level EQ'd).

 

[462429]

That is correct. Although that would not be an ideal situation (amongst other things because at least in theory you would have extra sound quality degradation), it is possible to do it. On one of the preamplifiers you would have to turn the volume up very high, maybe even maximum or close to maximum. If you use the same amplifier with other sources (with full line level output) great care should be taken when switching between sources! If you forget to first turn the volume down it could become very unpleasant for the speakers and the neighbours. This (using integrated amps or av receivers with analog 7.1 input) was meant more as the fun approach, with things you might have laying around or can buy cheap on the second hand market.

Thank you for the additional explanation. By the way, I would add a similar warning regarding possible volume shock. If we connect the Oppo 103 to the power amplifier (and use Oppo's software volume control) we should avoid setting 'direct DSD to analog' and rather choose 'DSD to analog via PCM'! Otherwise we get a '100% volume' shock when we start SACD playback. By contrast, the Oppo 105 can have software volume control and 'direct DSD to analog' at the same time. I mention Oppo player here because it will be my bitstream source for the Realiser and my 2.0 analog source for the power amplifier/speakers system.

I would not say “BRIR’s RIR”:

What would be a better expression when you refer to the part of the BRIR that contains room/AV system definition data?

 

[jgazal]

What would be a better expression when you refer to the part of the BRIR that contains room/AV system definition data?

Now I see what you mean and I guess is is okay.

Do you believe "acoustic signature of the measured room" or as Smyth says "nature of the room acoustics" or "the reverberation" describe better what you mean?

I really don't know a compact way of describe it.

 

[462429]

Now I see what you mean and I guess is is okay.
Do you believe "acoustic signature of the measured room" or as Smyth says "nature of the room acoustics" or "the reverberation" describe better what you mean?
I really don't know a compact way of describe it.

Thank you and yes, the terms you mention are perfectly descriptive, but when you discuss interaction between 2 different things (PRIR and BRIR) each of which contains 2 different things (HRTF and 'RIR') within itself, then you really need some more compact expressions. Anyway, I wanted to say it was a great thing that you can take a strong part of some BRIR and replace the weak part of your own PRIR with it.

 

[arnaud]

S. Smyth once wrote:
"... virtual loudspeakers will not sound good when played over real loudspeakers because your loudspeakers create a second convolution. The effect of two convolutions is to make the audio sound like you are listening inside a cave."
How to understand this statement in the context of the expected Realiser-Yarra cooperation?

That also escapes me in regards to the idea behind using yarra instead of headphones. HPEQ does some correction but no way it will get rid of the room imprint coming from yarra sound bouncing off the walls (more below). HPEQ is only meant for slight amplitude compensations from each transducer to the corresponding mic, not cleaning up of a bunch of reverberation from the actual listening space.

But, can beamforming really be so precise? It is hard to believe that a sound wave can be able not to spread AROUND in the room, all the way to the walls.

Maybe I missed something about the Yarra but, beamforming from a bunch of speakers does not equate to no bouncing of sound around the walls. So, this xtalk cancellation between ears and listeners is only feasible in an anechoic space unless there also is some filtering to cancel room reflections.
If it does including such room cancellation techniques, this is another bag of hurdle, since the room response above a few hundred Hz is so sensitive to slight movement of listener position. It would require an adaptive filter working in real time, e.g having mics sticking in your ears while using the device. How practical is that...

Speaking of very promising possiblity of the Realiser/Yarra cooperation, it seems that the crosstalk isn't the only, and maybe even not the biggest predictable problem. Some say that the Yarra's drivers are too small to be able to produce serious enough sound at a distance of 3 m or more and also to small to enable subwoofer's crossover to be set low enough to stay non-directional.

There must be all sorts of issues with beamforming from a discrete set of speakers, starting with conflicting requirements for sizing to cover the audio range. Acoustic wavelength going from over 3m at 100Hz to 3cm at 10kHz, I am a bit doubtful how a bunch of 30-50mm size drivers can effectively form a tight beam over 100Hz-10kHz range.

Imo, the Yarra and Realiser don’t belong to the same thread. Smyth brothers have delivered a working product for 10 years and the technology is sound / proven. Headphones are the way to go with this virtualisation. The Yarra is a pipedream imho (but cool technology to be working on for sure).

Arnaud

 

[J.Villain]

How's that?

I live in a condo tower literally across the street from the Sky Train and I have a west facing unit with no AC. As soon as you open the balcony door or windows it's like living in a tent at the end of a runway at Heathrow. Unfortunately my Ethers don't come in a noise cancelling version. Beside after the end of a Canadian winter, come spring you head into the out back where there isn't power. Winter I am stuck indoors with the doors closed waiting for the sun to come back. As Sordel stated, it is a first world problem, but it is still deeply disappointing. It also means I could have held off another year before upgrading the rest of my HT.

 

[raband]

Portable aircon unit sounds like a worthy upgrade for you

 

[sander99]

I live in a condo tower literally across the street from the Sky Train and I have a west facing unit with no AC. As soon as you open the balcony door or windows it's like living in a tent at the end of a runway at Heathrow. Unfortunately my Ethers don't come in a noise cancelling version. Beside after the end of a Canadian winter, come spring you head into the out back where there isn't power. Winter I am stuck indoors with the doors closed waiting for the sun to come back. As Sordel stated, it is a first world problem, but it is still deeply disappointing. It also means I could have held off another year before upgrading the rest of my HT.

Sorry to hear that. Of course I was joking a bit. But I am curious, with heading into the out back you mean just during the day or you go to some cottage or something? Maybe could something with a car battery and ac power converter do the trick then?