[Hirsch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by n_maher /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm saying it because most folks don't even know what you are talking about when you say "allow the caps to discharge" and knowing how found Mikhail is of large (capacitance) power supply capacitors it may take a while for them to discharge - and that's assuming that there are bleeder resistors. I personally haven't looked at enough of his amps to know how Mikhail addresses this. Since there are several unknown factors like this it would seem to me that the prudent advice would be to at least caution people about the danger that these types of amps (not just Mikhial's, any high-voltage tube amp) can and do represent. I don't know about you but I've been thumped by a 300V B+ before and it's not something that I wish anyone else to experience. My heart survived it, someone else's might not. So my advice is the same, if you don't know what you're doing please be careful. If you insist on opening it up make sure that the amp has been unplugged for a matter of hours (not minutes) and once the chassis cover is off keep one hand in your pocket (so you cannot become the path to ground).

Massive b..

Actually, I wanted to agree completely with what Nate is saying here. Tube amps contain dangerous, potentially lethal, voltages. These voltages can be present in capacitors long after an amp has been unplugged. If you don't know what you're doing, don't do it around something that can kill you.

Note that the hand in pocket procedure might not stop you from being a ground, but at least the current won't be going from one hand to the other...straight through your chest.

 

[pabbi1]

There are other commercial builders that have FAR worse looking p2p, but, unless you have actually built an amp (either p2p or board based), I question the standing to comment. Even with the best laid out instructions, optimized signal path, and over-analyzed planning / preparation, it is usually only the simplest circuits that look 'pretty'. Even on the initial builds.

We can all admire the pretty wiring, which is an art form unto itself, but it is not how these amps should be judged. By anyone.

I've heard the ES-1, and it was better than my Blue Hawaii in many respects (albeit with better tubes), but I do note the folks who actually build amps are far less critical than those who don't.

Everyone should build a Millett Starving Student themselves, then look again at Mikhail's work. I guarantee it will look different, in a far more appreciated light.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nikongod /img/forum/go_quote.gif Based on where the appear to be in the case, I am fairly sure they are part of the power supply. Part of the voltage regulators to be specific. Mikhail has built amps with upgraded caps in this spot, but I would SERIOUSLY question their necessity.

Thanks for the clarification......I have tons of dumb questions left in me (that I won't ask

))......

Peete.

 

[wower]

I admit the pictures don't look very promising of SP's latest work but I'm still rooting for Mikhail. This is a niche hobby and we need all the smart good designers we can get. Heres hoping SP pulls itself up to it full potential greatness.

 

[Leny]

I was searching for information on SinglePower and came across this thread.

I am an Electrical Engineer of many years standing, and I must say straight that the pictures in this thread show some of the worst wiring that I have ever seen. Part of my professional resonsibilities involve designing equipment wiring systems and I can not believe that a product like that shown here reaches the market. I do not know if that is typical of SP, but if it is then it is a disgrace.

The internal wiring of a product should be logically arranged and exactly repeatable from unit to unit. The reasons for this are as follows:

1. Equipment is designed and verified to a performance specification. If the production units exactly match the development verification units then the production units will achieve the same / required performance. If they are inconsistent (by way of freeform wiring for example) then the production units may not have the same performance. i.e. there is likely to be sample-to-sample variation. Most people would like to be assured that the unit they buy will perform the same as the unit they heard under demonstration.

2. Equipment is designed and verified to a safety specification. If the production units exactly match the development verification units then the production units will achieve the same / required level of safety. If they are inconsistent (by way of freeform wiring for example) then the production units may not have the same / required safety as the test samples. Inconsistent wiring might lay too close to hot objects and hence fail in use, or lay too close to sharp objects and hence fail in transit. Inconsistent safety can compromise your life by way of electrical shock or fire.

3. Logical / repeatable wiring layout can be documented, hence logically followed, assisting end-of-production-line fault-finding.

4. Documented / repeatable layout is more readily diagnosed when there are in-service failures (perhaps years later). Even without documentation a logical layout is more easily diagnosed.

There is nothing wrong with point-to-point wiring if it is done logically and consistently. The examples shown in this thread are neither. They really are terrible.

I can only hope that a) the pictures shown are not typical of production units, or b) if they are typical then SinglePower raise their game for the sake of themselves and their customers.

L.

 

[Sherwood]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leny /img/forum/go_quote.gif I was searching for information on SinglePower and came across this thread. I am an Electrical Engineer of many years standing, and I must say straight that the pictures in this thread show some of the worst wiring that I have ever seen. Part of my professional resonsibilities involve designing equipment wiring systems and I can not believe that a product like that shown here reaches the market. I do not know if that is typical of SP, but if it is then it is a disgrace. The internal wiring of a product should be logically arranged and exactly repeatable from unit to unit. The reasons for this are as follows: 1. Equipment is designed and verified to a performance specification. If the production units exactly match the development verification units then the production units will achieve the same / required performance. If they are inconsistent (by way of freeform wiring for example) then the production units may not have the same performance. i.e. there is likely to be sample-to-sample variation. Most people would like to be assured that the unit they buy will perform the same as the unit they heard under demonstration. 2. Equipment is designed and verified to a safety specification. If the production units exactly match the development verification units then the production units will achieve the same / required level of safety. If they are inconsistent (by way of freeform wiring for example) then the production units may not have the same / required safety as the test samples. Inconsistent wiring might lay too close to hot objects and hence fail in use, or lay too close to sharp objects and hence fail in transit. Inconsistent safety can compromise your life by way of electrical shock or fire. 3. Logical / repeatable wiring layout can be documented, hence logically followed, assisting end-of-production-line fault-finding. 4. Documented / repeatable layout is more readily diagnosed when there are in-service failures (perhaps years later). Even without documentation a logical layout is more easily diagnosed. There is nothing wrong with point-to-point wiring if it is done logically and consistently. The examples shown in this thread are neither. They really are terrible. I can only hope that a) the pictures shown are not typical of production units, or b) if they are typical then SinglePower raise their game for the sake of themselves and their customers. L.

Leny, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that, as a new member, you didn't read all 12 pages of this thread. With that in min,d allow me to refute your points:

1) Sample-to-sample consistency is irrelevant in this case. This is a bespoke amplifier designed specifically for Elephas. There is no other amplifier with these parts in this configuration extant.

2) This is a valid point, but one that is hard to judge in these pictures. In person, it would be much easier to gauge what is sharp/hot and what lays near it.

3) There is no "production line" involved here. The amp is hand built by Mikhail and his 3 or 4 employees, and tested throughout the process. Any failure would be recognized before the amp was completed, necessitating a good deal less checking at the end.

4) Ari has already attested to the ease of following Mikhail's P2P layouts in amps he personally owns. We can't see the forest for the trees in these pictures -- rather they're designed to verify the existence of large, outsized boutique components. Components which certainly don't fit on PCB's...

Overall, I have little problem with the actual layout of the amp. I've built a few amps, and troubleshot those that I bought, and I recognize that work varies. This work looks sloppy, but Mikhail's expertise and vision are beyond reproach. His customer service and order fulfillment, however, leave something to be desired. If he intended to expand his operation beyond how many amps and parts he and his small crew could reasonably build in 60 hours a week, then he might consider better organization.

I had the opportunity to listen at length to this very amp a few weeks ago, and it was simply astonishing. Mikhail claimed it was the "best amp in the world". I can't verify that, but through his HE90s and his Lambda Signatures, it's certainly the best amp I've ever heard. Elephas, you should be proud to own this work of art. I'm just glad that, when I order my own, I'll live right down the street.

 

[JamesL]

Paralleling and bundling wires is the easiest way to increase parasitic capacitance.
Considering the sheer amount of components in the amp, I wouldn't say mikhail did a particularly bad job, although it could have turned out a little better with some more layout planning. =/

 

[AudioDwebe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikeymad /img/forum/go_quote.gif

This looks like one of my Dad's electronic drawers he used to have in his garage.

 

[senns&nonsense]

I am fairly clueless as to the insides of an amp and what the design and layout and wiring should look like. But some people referenced this "looking like a Cary" and I can offer my experience that is quite contrary to that comparison.

I have an SLP-2002 Pre and need to open it up to change tubes and it seems much more clean and organized than that mess. Eevrything seems carefully layed out and planned as opposed to the randomness in the OP's photos. Just FYI..... I have no clue if SQ is effected by the neatness factor.....

 

[shamu144]

Thank you for this interesting thread.

For what I have been able to read, informations displayed together with other existing threads allow each and every one of us in all fairness to decide wether or not to buy an amp from SP, and wether or not it meets our own quality standards/requirements.

As to me, the answer is cristal clear, but I am only judge for myself.

Let's not try to rationalize an irrational argument.

Regards,

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioDwebe /img/forum/go_quote.gif This looks like one of my Dad's electronic drawers he used to have in his garage.

But this Cary amp sounds great and has been trouble free according to the member who originally posted the pic.

 

[sacd lover]

Quote:

Originally Posted by senns&nonsense /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am fairly clueless as to the insides of an amp and what the design and layout and wiring should look like. But some people referenced this "looking like a Cary" and I can offer my experience that is quite contrary to that comparison. I have an SLP-2002 Pre and need to open it up to change tubes and it seems much more clean and organized than that mess. Eevrything seems carefully layed out and planned as opposed to the randomness in the OP's photos. Just FYI..... I have no clue if SQ is effected by the neatness factor.....

That has a lot to do with the OP pics .... you dont see the whole layout just close ups of random sections. Plus, the OPs amp is an extremely complicated build.

 

[Frihed89]

You want capacitors! Single Power has nothing on this rig. Plus it can be charged by a bicycle or a windmill. See the pic on the next reply.

 

[Frihed89]

One more try and that's it:

 

[nor_spoon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frihed89 /img/forum/go_quote.gif One more try and that's it:

Nice amp, but one thing I find a tad bit weird in this picture.
Whats with the cookie box on the wall?