[Murgatroid]

the M5 Ultra is non-Android MTouch, you can't sideload any APKs.

You might be thinking of the Cayin N3 Ultra which does run on Android, but there is no Wi-Fi or Bluetooth and it's a completely closed Android, Cayin said there is no third-party app support.

Oops! You’re right! I thought I was in the N3Ultra thread! Carry on! Keeping an eye on this one, too.

 

[Shanling]

can this use android medica players such as power amp?

We don't know if any apps can be sideloaded from an APK on the SD card yet. Also, popular players like Poweramp, UAPP, Neutron, are paid apps and will require Google play store access, which isn't possible.

It's running version of our MTouch system. There is no Android, no side-loading, no Android player apps or streaming apps.

 

[Murgatroid]

It's running version of our MTouch system. There is no Android, no side-loading, no Android player apps or streaming apps.

Sorry, I had posted in the wrong thread. There are two new players, both with Ultra in their names. I’m following both so new post notifications look similar as the thread titles look similar. I’ll delete my post to minimize confusion.

 

[e-dub]

Yes, there is Recently added tab.

Oh! Is that tab accessible on the M6 Ultra?

 

[Shanling]

Oh! Is that tab accessible on the M6 Ultra?

Not in our music App.

 

[fish1050]

So is this the same MTouch version running on the M1S or have there been further improvements?

If it is the same version then we can take a look at some youtube videos of the M1S to get a sense of how it will look and function. We already know it will have the continuous issue of not displaying special characters properly. So you will have this really nice DAP with great hardware and a bunch of messed up track names to detract from the appeal of this DAP. I haven't checked out the MTouch OS since I had my Q1 and it was not great to say the least. What improvements have been made to the OS on the M5 Ultra to make it more user friendly and functional? I do applaud Shanling for porting it to the X2000 SOC which is something Hiby has not bothered to do as their Linux OS is still limited to the X1000 as I understand it.

 

[Bloodflowerz]

The M5 Ultra is my number one choice currently.

I recently found my old Onkyo DAP from five plus years back and realised I much prefer listening to music without all the distractions of my phone / android OS.

For the price, this M5 Ultra seems to be a very good deal.

Looking forward to release.

 

[droid23]

Edit: unfortunately i just saw the output impedances of both jacks, which are a total show stopper for me sadly.

Hi, could you please tell us what exactly this means for using different HPs and IEMs? What's the downside? Thanks in advance

 

[sofastreamer]

High impedance at the phone outs will bend the frequency response of the headphones that are sensible to that. Specially multi ba iems will become unpredictable wonky. There are quite a few measurements on the net, that tested the behaviour of different phones at high impedance outputs. The range goes from 10db less treble to anything similar anywhere else in the frequency spectrum. Tho mostly at both ends of the frequency curves. There are some phones that will behave less extreme but its like russian roulette.
Beyerdynamic is the only brand i know of that tuned their phones with 20ohm outputs, so they got the well known beyer peak at any amp but their own.the beyer amps all had 20ohms output impedance. They changed this with the introduction of their 4 digit series tho.
Anyways the most dramatic behaviour will be with multi ba iems, which are extremely sensible to output impedance. Anything above 1ohm becomes critical. Thats why most companys tell in their specs that the output impedance of their devices is under 1ohms. There are some impedance adaptors on the market that could fix that to a degree, but i dint think you will find one that lowers the exact impedance the shanling seems to have.they do more like 10ohms steps afaik. hope that helps.
Honestly i dont know what the product manager had in mind or in his glass when he made this decision.

 

[droid23]

Thanks for the clarification sofastreamer! ...and I learned a lot today, prost! .
Actually I would have planned, for being super portable, to use the MYER-AUDIO SLIIVO SL-41 (which is a hybrid featuring 1 DD + 4 BA) with a new DAP ... It's really hard to find a decent DAP in the "up to 1000$" price range which fulfills my use criteria and matches with the HPs I own. Guess I have to read more and maybe even spend more?

 

[sofastreamer]

Thanks for the clarification sofastreamer! ...and I learned a lot today, prost! .
Actually I would have planned, for being super portable, to use the MYER-AUDIO SLIIVO SL-41 (which is a hybrid featuring 1 DD + 4 BA) with a new DAP ... It's really hard to find a decent DAP in the "up to 1000$" price range which fulfills my use criteria and matches with the HPs I own. Guess I have to read more and maybe even spend more?

honestly i dont know how hybrids might react. maybe you can find some info by a google search. if you have to pay more will depend on your needs. i would say Shanling put out a great player if it wasnt for the outputs. you could attach an amp that would fix it tho.
those high outputs happened on a few chinese players about 10 yrs ago and most came out with a v2 sometime later that fixed that. so maybe Shanling will also do a similar thing.
Anyways as we dont know how your iem will react, it could also be the case that its not that bad and you end up liking the sound even more. finally it depends on your preferred signature. a lot of people change the signature with EQ, so if you arent into all linear frequency responses, there is a chance, the player still works out for you.

 

[Shanling]

Thanks for the clarification sofastreamer! ...and I learned a lot today, prost! .
Actually I would have planned, for being super portable, to use the MYER-AUDIO SLIIVO SL-41 (which is a hybrid featuring 1 DD + 4 BA) with a new DAP ... It's really hard to find a decent DAP in the "up to 1000$" price range which fulfills my use criteria and matches with the HPs I own. Guess I have to read more and maybe even spend more?

We would recommend checking it with the earphone manufacturer, about the impedance curve. Most hybrids in our experience work just fine.

i would say Shanling put out a great player if it wasnt for the outputs. you could attach an amp that would fix it tho.
those high outputs happened on a few chinese players about 10 yrs ago and most came out with a v2 sometime later that fixed that. so maybe Shanling will also do a similar thing.

Our designers used similar output on multiple of our designs over past 2 years and users seem to like its sound. We still have other models that manage to keep impedance low for better compatibility with the problematic earphones.

 

[sofastreamer]

We would recommend checking it with the earphone manufacturer, about the impedance curve. Most hybrids in our experience work just fine.



Our designers used similar output on multiple of our designs over past 2 years and users seem to like its sound. We still have other models that manage to keep impedance low for better compatibility with the problematic earphones.

i own several of your products but none have such high output impedance. your devices usually have close to zero or at least around 1ohm output impedance, at least the portable ones and this is what pretty much every manufacturer aims at. some do better some do worse. you can check the impedances of your devices yourself in specs.

also the output impedance has nothing to do with tuning! every headphone depending on its own impedance and wether it uses a crossover or not (iem) will react differently to high output impedance. thats why i said its unpredictable. i like that you are responding, but its technically wrong.

you can learn more about it here for example: https://www.headphonesty.com/2019/04/headphone-impedance-demystified/
Or here in shorter easier words: https://hifigo.com/blogs/guide/the-importance-of-impedance

As a general rule its said that the source impedance should be at least eight times lower than the headphone impedance, if the headphone should sound the way it was intended to. So headphones with an impedance lower than around 48 ohms will sound wrong on an output impedance of 6,x ohms. easy as that.
for iems you can look at this: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/output-impedance-and-iem-impedance.964701/

Last not least an article from the godfather of headphone amplifiers which might be worth reading for everyone, as he also shows some measurements: https://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/headphone-amp-impedance.html

 

[droid23]

Thanks again sofastreamer for shining some light onto this topic, especially to newbies, which are going to enter the world of high-end music. There are actually so many technical details you should take into account when putting together your individual audio chain. For some it depends what they already have, which headphones, cables, source, amp, DAC or DAP and so on and others might start from scratch (or have the "luxury" to start from scratch), because this hobby is not very wallet friendly to say the least.

But nevertheless, everyone is -or should be- called upon looking closely at the specs of literally everything they own a/o want to purchase. Why? Simply because it should fit together. The vast majority doesn't have money to throw out of the window or just has the financial backup to order and order and order -just out of curiosity- and sell it afterwards on the second hand market with some loss. Another important point which just adds to the before-mentioned is, that I guess most of us don't have the luxury to A/B the gear in specialized shops, unless you are living in a megacity. So, it leaves many of us to buy our gear more or less blindly, solely depending on reviews and opinions of others. Yeah, makes me feel good when spending 1000$ for a headphone plus 2000 for a DAP... not.... unless you know what's on the table at least from a technical standpoint. And to go full circle here, this is exactly why I love to be here in this forum, you live, you listen and learn... and you will develop a better feeling for what might be right for you and your chain. In the end, it saves you nerves and money... at least a little bit, until the next new thing appears in a thread .
Sorry for that OT here, but I had to get this off my chest, mea culpa.

 

[Bloodflowerz]

Damn. First time I am hearing about this rule of 8.Thanks for the heads-up, Sofastreamer.

Just ran the calculation against my Edition 8s. At 30 ohms, the Shanling would need to be less than 3.75 ohms on the unbalanced to satisfy the Edition 8 and the rule of 8. That's 0.95 over the limit according to the specs.

Sigh. Guess the search continues.