[H20Fidelity]

   

Yes, everything is relative, and generating resistance & angst in response to it is optional; not compulsory.
 
 
However, one can still hold disdain for something, without necessarily feeling emotional angst.   Heck, see my sig tagline and you'll see I don't get sleepless nights over the likes of iRiver, but it doesn't mean I can't hold an opinion about them

 
Its time! I''ve been saving it for the right moment!
 
*cue the drumroll* 
 
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 

[Mython]

   
Here's the thing.  People often forget, or never even bother to consider that their actions have consequences for others, as well as for themselves.  I think it is morally imprtant to consider what those consequences might be, before posting those opinions on a public forum.  (I am not singling you out here, just using your post as a springboard to make these comments.)
 
Likewise, I think that a number of the comments made regarding specific manufacturers and/or retailers, if made about Head-Fi members, would result in bans, or utter ejection from the site.  Why do people think that it's ok to "trash" a company, as if it had no moral rights of its own?  Or, for that matter, the people within the company?  

 
 
I'm happy to chat about this (probably via PM is best), if you'd like.
 
Or here, if you'd prefer.
 
 
I'm sure this situation is common, throughout the internet, and throughout the world, with innumerable different products, services & companies. I consider it a great pity that more manufacturers, vendors, retailers, dealers, etc. do not choose to dialogue with end-users, as sticking-points might be smoothed out much more rapidly and satisfactorily if the intentions & rationale of those concerned were directly explained and discussed.
 
 
Personally, I would warmly welcome (and I honestly do  mean that) iRiver/A&K staff dialoguing with Head-fiers. Perhaps there might be more common ground to be found, with both parties benefiting, as a consequence.
 
And that's not limited to iRiver/A&K - there is a notable variation in the degree to which some companies engage with Head-fiers, in comparison to how much other companies do.
 
 
Since the thread within which we are currently conversing is regarding iRiver/A&K, I will remark, not for the first time, that I believe they could increase their profits very significantly, if they chose to wholeheartedly bring all of their TOTL DAPs to the sub-$2000 mark. I firmly believe they'd be welcomed with open arms by so many more people that the cut in margin would be more than amply compensated by number of units sold. As a bonus, they might be viewed more favourably, overall, as well. Seems like a win-win for anyone in the company able to see the longterm health & prosperity of the company as being as worthy a goal as the short term. Add some company interaction with Head-fiers, and it'd be a fantastic combination.
 
 
.

 

[olddude]

A&K has introduced lower-end devices in an attempt to use its name cachet to snag folks who can't or won't pony up top-end prices.   I haven't tried them so can't say what level of quality they have.  
 
Fiio threw open the doors to its kingdom with its implementation of the X7 here on HeadFi and that was, to me, a debacle that continues.  I had considered the X7 but as that discussion went on it chased me away (for which I am very grateful).  
 
It's all well and good to talk to end users but they tend to have different needs and wants and no manufacturer can please everyone.  You end up with either a Frankenstein monster of a device or you displease potential purchasers by not including their cherished desires.  Who here recalls the endless! discussions on the X7 pages re batteries and card slots (and what kind of cards would go in those slots)?  I had to unsubscribe from the thread because of the level of childishness about what was wanted.  How can a manufacturer deal with that?
 
I would rather buy a device that is suited for my needs because it was designed by a company with a vision, not an end-user committee trying to jam every last thing in there. It might not perfectly suit me, but by and large it does.  A&K took the (to my mind overpriced) 240 and basically stuffed the insides of a 120 with them and called it a 120ll at $1600.  Its GUI is excellent, the buttons are well-laid out, the volume control knob is perfect, and it is easy to use and carry.  So, for me, that price point works.  To others it might not.  And I'm unwilling to pay double or more for a 380 or a1Z or a Terra or an LPG because, well, I'm unwilling.  Doesn't mean they have no worth, or aren't marginally better.  Just my choice.
 
Many of us here look at the choices others here have made and think, why?  I admit I can't figure out why someone would use $1600 iems with a phone.  But I'm not going to come on here and challenge them about it.  If they are happy, it's not for me to ask why or challenge their purchasing choices.  This place is great for reading about people's opinions of audio equipment.  Almost all of what I've purchased since joining this forum has been partially or wholly driven by asking/reading about stuff other people use.  I've tried to do the same in my posts about equipment that I have, hoping it will help others make informed choices.  
 
That said, I took a real beating here when I got a Pono as a present and posted about it.  And not by people who owned one, but by people who were offended by its very existence.  I took a beating when I talked about music file types, something I will no longer do because of the level of unpleasantness that arises with those discussions.
 
This whole audiophile hobby is subjective.  Each of us likes or dislikes certain sounds.  Yes, there are factual parts to it, but even with those the end result becomes subjective.  Do I like it or not?   Does it sound good to me or not?
 
Is the A&K 380 overpriced? To me, yes, based on what I'm willing to pay for a DAP.  To someone else who loves their 380, no, based on what they are willing to pay for a DAP.  That's it.  Anything else is just arguing.  

 

[Danneq]

Cowon has implemented gapless in all their players WAY before A&K, and it has always worked with all file types (including MP3).

Rio Karma, originally released in late 2003, had gapless playback. I think Cowon S9 was one of the first Cowons with gapless playback (around 2009). Then there's Rockbox which can give any compatible DAP gapless playback as well as working with a number of different file formats. Rockbox is the best thing since sliced bread!

 

[Whitigir]

There are cables that cost 1k or more...what is so wrong about AK380 pricing ? Lol

 

[Aevum]

Real answer : Becuase people will pay.
 
There is a simple equation that is used to price an object in capitalist markets.
 
its a cross graph of the price vs the satisfaction a product causes to its buyer. and there the two lines cross is where the price is set.

 

[Ruben123]

There are cables that cost 1k or more...what is so wrong about AK380 pricing ? Lol

But er, which conscious mind pays more than $10 for any normal cable without special made connectors? If some labour is incorporated, to make specialised connections, $40 seems the max to me. Everyone their taste though.

 

[olddude]

Have you tried a custom cable?
 
Oh, and I'm VERY conscious.  

 

[Ruben123]

And here we go. Yea and what exactly does a custom cable differently? Do the electrons travel faster, with more energy or more freely perhaps? If I'd put some resistors hidden in my cable I could see them change the sound for sure. But even then the original statement was about 1k cables. Can't call that conscious buys. Now over to the AK again.

 

[fzman]

And here we go. Yea and what exactly does a custom cable differently? Do the electrons travel faster, with more energy or more freely perhaps? If I'd put some resistors hidden in my cable I could see them change the sound for sure. But even then the original statement was about 1k cables. Can't call that conscious buys. Now over to the AK again.

 
 
I can't even begin to imagine how shocked you'll be when you discover that cables are made from nothing more than conductors and insulators!--   stop the presses!  
 
 
 
 
Plus, the signal is not propagated by the electrons moving faster or slower- they move quite slowly-it is the em field that develops "around" the cable that transmits the signal.  

 

[Ruben123]

I can't even begin to imagine how shocked you'll be when you discover that cables are made from nothing more than conductors and insulators!--   stop the presses!  




Plus, the signal is not propagated by the electrons moving faster or slower- they move quite slowly-it is the em field that develops "around" the cable that transmits the signal.  

It took me quite some time to actually understand what you were trying to say. Fortunately you answered your own question. Cables are indeed not made out of magic, the only thing they do is transfer electrons to the headphone. As long as the cable works correctly (low resistance), a cable does nothing to the sound. Unless you actually know how to make a bad cable, which quite some audiophile cables are, then you could make some low impedance earphones sound different. Basic science, because the impedance the earphones see increases.

Also it certainly is the electron flow that brings the signal to the transducer... In the transducer, the em field is used to make the speaker move. Of course I was kidding about how they work, hence my hard time of understanding your post. I was sarcastic.

 

[fzman]

It took me quite some time to actually understand what you were trying to say. Fortunately you answered your own question. Cables are indeed not made out of magic, the only thing they do is transfer electrons to the headphone. As long as the cable works correctly (low resistance), a cable does nothing to the sound. Unless you actually know how to make a bad cable, which quite some audiophile cables are, then you could make some low impedance earphones sound different. Basic science, because the impedance the earphones see increases.

Also it certainly is the electron flow that brings the signal to the transducer... In the transducer, the em field is used to make the speaker move. Of course I was kidding about how they work, hence my hard time of understanding your post. I was sarcastic.

Me too (the sarcasm part).  You are simply wrong about cables having no interesting properties other than conductivity and resistance.  We agree to disagree. (end of sarcastic comments)     I think we would both rather enjoy music than arguing about cables.  Checking out new music on Tidal as I type this, diggging my new Focal Utopias.
 
Have a wonderful New Year!

 

[Danneq]

Well, there can be a slight sonic difference between for example steel, copper, silver plated copper or pure silver. But nothing that would warrant such a big price tag.

 

[olddude]

And again, blanket statements that don't take user's experience and desires into the equation.  This is what I was referencing in my earlier posts.  If we can just get to a place here where everyone's experience is valued and no one says, "that can't be the case," things here would be a lot more pleasant.  
 
If someone hears differences in a DAP, or a cable, or an earbud, or an ac cord, and is willing to pay a price for that item and is happy with it, what purpose does it serve to come on here and say "piffle," you don't know what you are hearing?  
 
I have had stock cables and custom cables and I can hear a difference.  Is my experience valid?  My JH Angies sound different with a stock balanced cable then they do with a Moon Audio Black Dragon balanced cable.  And my Moon Audio Silver Dragon balanced cable sounds different from the Black Dragon.  If I hear these differences (or if I have, say, an A&K 380 and I hear differences between it and another DAP), is my experience valid?  Either my experience has a value or it doesn't.  If not, than most of us should leave this forum to those who deal in certainties and absolutes.

 

[StanD]

Well, one makes their own choices. They can spend thousands of $$$ on cables and or a DAP and enjoy that or they can spend the money on a nice vacation and enjoy that instead. I vote for the vacation.