[Sorrodje]

Move on to what, precisely? We're discussing the headphone. I honestly don't understand some of you people.

You were debating about Tyll's impressions and opinions not about the hd800s itself. Nothing hard to understand.

 

[Mike F]

Until you change the emphasis around... and read further.

Fact is, as Tyll said, if you don't mind modding and EQing, the HD800 still has plenty of appeal. However, I heartily agree with his decision to knock the old HD800 off the WoF, and for the very same reason:
I've modded the crap out of my 800s, and even run EQ with them (when possible, I can't do that with my turntable) and while they're technically amazing I've never loved them, that's not true with the 800S. I can just hook up to my ECBA, put on a favorite LP, and lounge in audio bliss.

 
Well, I'm inclined to agree with Sorrdje, so this will be my last comment. (Feel free to have the last word! 

)
 
I was just pointing out the fact that it wasn't just modded that Tyll preferred the EQ'd HD800 to the EQ'd HD800S.
 
The quote I provided makes it very clear that EQ'd, but not modded, Tyll prefers the HD800 to the HD800S. My added emphasis did nothing to change the meaning of the paragraph, and you'll notice (and hopefully appreciate) the fact that I deliberately quoted the whole paragraph so as not to twist anything he said by taking it out of context. Yes, he said it was close, but he did say (twice in the same paragraph, giving an explanation the second time) that he preferred the HD800 EQ'd to the HD800S EQ'd. That fits with my understanding of 'unequivocal'! 
 
He then says:-  'However, if I wasn't using EQ, I'd easily prefer the HD 800 S'. That's also extremely clear, but it also serves to emphasise his point that with EQ, the opposite is the case, even if it's close.
 
I totally agree though (as I can read) that the overall thrust and conclusion of his review is that, in stock form and without EQ, he prefers the HD800S.
 
 
​However, I'm somewhat amused by his reaction to one of the comments of the review on Innerfidelity:-
 
 
image: http://cdn.innerfidelity.com/images/user_account_pictures/picture-16636-1399229828.jpg

Distortion is musicality? Submitted by Jazz Casual on March 6, 2016 - 5:57pm 

Thanks for the thorough and forensic investigation Tyll. So Sennheiser has traded some of the HD800's precision for musicality and an increase in distortion is the by-product. It is interesting that the HD800S, which seemingly editorialises more than the HD800, has also succeeded in knocking it off the wall of fame. I don't have a problem with that - I like Grados after all, but it should ignite heated arguments over whether the modified HD800S is as worthy of being described as a high fidelity headphone as its predecessor. Kudos to Sennheiser for recognising that audiophiles really "can't handle the truth" and offering a more palatable alternative.

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image: http://cdn.innerfidelity.com/images/user_account_pictures/picture-16537-1399229828.jpg

Damit! Submitted by Tyll Hertsens on March 6, 2016 - 7:41pm 

Where's the "like" button around here?

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LOVE IT! 

 

 

[62ohm]

Well, if you look at the measurements it also shows that the HD800S have a tad less treble distortion, and significantly lower 200Hz & 2kHz treble spike.
 
90dB distortion from 3kHz to 5kHz also has been reduced to well bellow 0.1%. So I think it is a trade-off, yes, but a worthy successor nonetheless. Trading bass accuracy for treble accuracy - not necessarily worsening the headphone to make it more musical IMO.

 

[Magick Man]

He then says:- [COLOR=333333] '[/COLOR][COLOR=333333]However, if I wasn't using EQ, I'd easily prefer the HD 800 S'.[/COLOR] [COLOR=333333]That's also extremely clear, [/COLOR][COLOR=333333]but it also serves to emphasise his point that with EQ, the opposite is the case, even if it's close.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=333333]I totally agree though (as I can read) that the overall thrust and conclusion of his review is that, in stock form and without EQ, he prefers the HD800S.[/COLOR]

Yeah, I think people are reading more into that than what he actually said. He's right, the 800 in stock form, un-EQ'd, is "unpalatable", a lot of times. It may be great for analyzing music, but it's not so great at helping the listener actually enjoy it.

 

[oatp1b1]

Maybe it's something that I don't understand, but why does it matter what 'Tyll' thinks vs stock/EQ/modded HD800? Is it that important to know that you have a HP that is approved by him? Just enjoy the music instead..

 

[Quinto]

  Maybe it's something that I don't understand, but why does it matter what 'Tyll' thinks vs stock/EQ/modded HD800? Is it that important to know that you have a HP that is approved by him? Just enjoy the music instead..

  this is a forum you know..

 

[Mike F]

  Maybe it's something that I don't understand, but why does it matter what 'Tyll' thinks vs stock/EQ/modded HD800? Is it that important to know that you have a HP that is approved by him? Just enjoy the music instead..

The point is that people read reviews from people like Tyll to get information and to form an impression about headphones which they might potentially want to purchase. 
 
Or am I stating the bleedin' obvious?

 

[shabta]

 
The point is that people read reviews from people like Tyll to get information and to form an impression about headphones which they might potentially want to purchase. 
 
Or am I stating the bleedin' obvious?

The point is that anyone can read the review. Yet here, people seem to be selectively and somewhat misleadingly using quotes to emphasize points  instead of just basing it on personal experience. 
 
So for example, it is true that Tyll likes a EQ'd, HD800 better than the S. I don't like as much bass as Tyll and so most of his logic is meaningless for me. But for me the kicker is that he also makes the point that he wants to be able to EQ differently for different kinds of music! So now I will selectively quote:
 
"I think I prefer having to fiddle with the 6kHz notch a bit based on the music playing rather than not being able to dial the bass up to where I want it without lows becoming a bit too congested."
 
This is partly why I rarely bother with EQ anymore. I used to EQ on my speaker system to compensate for room issues, but it was really difficult to find a setting that worked no matter what kind of music I was playing, it was really true that I could tweak the EQ settings for almost every CD. So for me, the bigger issue is the earcup resonance and that is why you have to either mod like sorrodje or buy the S. Now if you want at that point you can EQ and I think if you like to punch up the bass, you definitely want to go the mod route, because you will begin to hear the distortion of the S. 
 
So I see it as a pretty simple contrast: Mod the classic vs. unmodded S. Mods will inevitably suffer from slightly less good performance across the board since they aren't as frequency specific as the  Helmholtz absorber in the S and will likely not last as long as the resonator tech in the S. On the other hand if you don't mind having to remod every few years (is it one, two, three or ???) and you want to EQ the bass, then you can buy a much less expensive used HD800 and have at it.  

 

[Whazzzup]

My views on EQ, the world is flat i tell you. The right equipment for ones ears is all one needs. That and an hd800S.
 

 

[madwolfa]

I personally think EQ is lame (for playback anyway). Less stuff between the music and my ears is better. Don't like the sound - change the record or buy another headphone! 

 

 

[MattTCG]

  I personally think EQ is lame (for playback anyway). Less stuff between the music and my ears is better. Don't like the sound - change the record or buy another headphone! 

 

 
But how do you really feel about. 

  Personally, I think some hp's EQ better than others. But mostly I agree with you. I tend to tinker with things like EQ to no end and ultimately I have to put it away or it will dive me mad. 

 

[madwolfa]

  But how do you really feel about. 

  Personally, I think some hp's EQ better than others. But mostly I agree with you. I tend to tinker with things like EQ to no end and ultimately I have to put it away or it will dive me mad. 

 
Yes, it's just yet another OCD kind of thing I don't want in my life...

 

[Magick Man]

I personally think EQ is lame (for playback anyway). Less stuff between the music and my ears is better. Don't like the sound - change the record or buy another headphone! :confused_face:  

On a computer EQing is okay, but I don't always use my PC or Mac as a source. In fact, a good deal of the time I go from turntable > preamp > amp > headphones. The whole audio world isn't DACs and FLACs.

 

[GearMe]

...basing it on personal experience...I don't like as much bass as Tyll and so most of his logic is meaningless for me...he wants to be able to EQ differently for different kinds of music!..."I think I prefer having to fiddle with the 6kHz notch a bit based on the music playing rather than not being able to dial the bass up to where I want it without lows becoming a bit too congested."  

How's that for Selective Quoting?


Seriously though, at the end of the day, it really is a personal experience. We ALL have different ears, equipment, biases, moods, etc. IMO, listening to music should be for pleasure and not some analytical experience.

As long as high-end (or low-end) equipment can provide that for me, then it's a good day! Right now I'm listening to Steely Dan on my HD681's ($30 headphones) running through Sonarworks program using the HD681's unique Digital EQ curve. Guess what, they sound pretty darn good...haven't tried the HD800 with it's unique EQ curve -- but will after a few days of getting use to it's sound


Anyway, some folks are more interested in the search for audio's Holy Grail (flat, most accurate, whatever). If that's what floats your boat, have at it.

The concept/phase that gets me the most is "as the artist intended"...unless you have the audiologist reports for every mixing engineer on all of your music...and can EQ to compensate for the difference of your own hearing capabilities, this concept just doesn't exist from a practical standpoint. Oh, one other thing, not all mixing studios use the same equipment (mikes, monitors, headphones, amps, etc.). SO...don't forget to factor that in as well when your striving for "as the artist intended".


BTW...according to Sonarworks' site, world class engineers (i.e. Grammy winning) are starting to use their product; uh-oh!

 

[swspiers]

800S's on order. They should be here by the end of April. I guess it's just time for me to step into Summit-Fi territory...