[jazzerdave]

Quote:

 
No. Just no. I'm one of the biggest HD650 fanboys on this forum and that bolded statement is outrageous to me. The HD650 is often lauded as a headphone that scales very well to what it's plugged into. The HD800 is the same, but many times over. The HD650 at its best cannot hold a candle to the HD800 at it's worst.

 
Obscene hyperbole aside, I agree with your sentiment.  I haven't put it to the test, but I'd imagine that an HD650 played through a TTVJ Pinnacle that's fed by the DCS Scarlatti would sound better than an HD800 straight out of a Nexus 4.  However, in any reasonable comparison (and any I've actually heard), you're right.  The HD800 is in a different league.

 

[dxanex]

+2
 
I LOVE the HD 650 with all my heart, but I've heard a fully balanced HD 800 running on a Ray Samuels Audio B-52 and there is simply no contest. One of the most euphoric listening experiences I've ever had since I started this hobby. The HD 650 can't even begin to replicate the imaging.

 

[Draygonn]

[size=small]Easily holds it own against the T1 and HD800![/size]

Emotionally perhaps, but the HD800s are a leap ahead technically.

 

[jwusoccer]

Quote:

Gotta say, the mid-bass hump allows for an enjoyable listen at lower levels. The HD800 is great at maintaining clarity at low volumes but it turns into more of a study, with the zest and bass subsiding. The LCD-2 is impressive when played loud, its visceral low end and smoothness is quite the experience. It's a comparatively dull affair at low volumes though. The HD650 maintains the toe-tapping, largely thanks to that mid-bass hump, but also because the layering does not collapse. There's still texture and dynamics.

So are you saying that the lcd-2 has less of a mid-bass hump? I'm considering getting it to pair with my hd650s, but I was hoping it had around the same quantity of bass, maybe a little more.

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Quote:

 
No. Just no. I'm one of the biggest HD650 fanboys on this forum and that bolded statement is outrageous to me. The HD650 is often lauded as a headphone that scales very well to what it's plugged into. The HD800 is the same, but many times over. The HD650 at its best cannot hold a candle to the HD800 at it's worst.

 
Obscene hyperbole aside, I agree with your sentiment.  I haven't put it to the test, but I'd imagine that an HD650 played through a TTVJ Pinnacle that's fed by the DCS Scarlatti would sound better than an HD800 straight out of a Nexus 4.  However, in any reasonable comparison (and any I've actually heard), you're right.  The HD800 is in a different league.

 
I believe the HD650's scalability is overstated tbh. It's a relic from the past when the market was not flooded with quality components at a reasonable price. Those with megabuck components were able to perceive the improvements compared to mediocre gear and shouted their findings from the rafters. That still echoes, despite the abyss in the mid tier level now filled with gear that not only provides a significant improvement over the entry level, but also now competes with (and in the case of sources, exceeds) some of the ToTL of the past.
 
The sky is not the limit with the HD650. My current system was built around the HD800 and although I found a level of performance I could've lived with, I suspected the headphone could go yet another gear. The HD650 on this same setup though reveals its ceiling, as qualities presented that were easily audible and enjoyed through the HD800 are lost through the HD650. That's not to say the HD650 is not enjoyable, I love its characteristics and do think very highly of it. It's just disappointing when you hear its limitations laid bare, particularly when you've become accustomed to the next tier.
 
The silver lining here is that people do not have to spend megabucks to hear the HD650's potential. While there are qualities from my current rig that the Bifrost/Lyr (+ decent tubes) combo could never emulate, that affordable Schiit stack presented a level of performance that I could live with from the HD650. Those settled on this particular headphone could also stop there as well, without the nagging thought that there's a wide beyond to be unlocked from this headphone when investing in better and more costly gear.

 

[Pianist]

I am not sure about HD800 vs HD650, but I know that HD650 compares very well to HE500 as I own both and AB them often. So those of you who think that HD800 is much better than HD650, would you also say that it's much better than HE500 or an LCD2? Honestly, I find it hard to believe as I heard all of these cans and didn't find and huge differences in sound quality between them. I tried HE6, HD800, LCD2 and T1 as well and I found them all to be great cans. I would never say that any one blows some others out of the water or anything remotely close to that and I find HE650 and HE500 to be near that level of performance as well. Actually, at a last meet that I attended, T1 and HD650 impressed me the most, followed by LCD2 and then HD800 and HE6.

 

[olor1n]

The HD800 is such a demanding headphone and changes significantly based on what system (this entails the dac/source as well, not just the amp) it is plugged into. Anyone who has lived with this headphone and has invested time and funds into unlocking its potential knows this. That's why I do not place any value (no offence) to impressions derived from quick auditions. There are qualities that don't immediately jump out either, but are perceived and appreciated after some time.
 
And yes, I find the HD800 blows the LCD-2 out of the water. I concede that people may prefer the house Audez'e sound (that's cool), but for me the LCD-2 always imparts its signature on the music, whereas the HD800 is considerably less obtrusive. The very definition of transparency.

 

[MattTCG]

Quote:

 
I believe the HD650's scalability is overstated tbh. It's a relic from the past when the market was not flooded with quality components at a reasonable price. Those with megabuck components were able to perceive the improvements compared to mediocre gear and shouted their findings from the rafters. That still echoes, despite the abyss in the mid tier level now filled with gear that not only provides a significant improvement over the entry level, but also now competes with (and in the case of sources, exceeds) some of the ToTL of the past.
 
The sky is not the limit with the HD650. My current system was built around the HD800 and although I found a level of performance I could've lived with, I suspected the headphone could go yet another gear. The HD650 on this same setup though reveals its ceiling, as qualities presented that were easily audible and enjoyed through the HD800 are lost through the HD650. That's not to say the HD650 is not enjoyable, I love its characteristics and do think very highly of it. It's just disappointing when you hear its limitations laid bare, particularly when you've become accustomed to the next tier.
 
The silver lining here is that people do not have to spend megabucks to hear the HD650's potential. While there are qualities from my current rig that the Bifrost/Lyr (+ decent tubes) combo could never emulate, that affordable Schiit stack presented a level of performance that I could live with from the HD650. Those settled on this particular headphone could also stop there as well, without the nagging thought that there's a wide beyond to be unlocked from this headphone when investing in better and more costly gear.

 
While I certainly appreciate your assessment of the 650's scale-ability, I can't agree with it in whole. I often taut the praises of the 650  because it's ability to sound better/scale is about as impressive as I've seen. Many headphones need power to sound their best, some need tubes, some need balanced input. I just haven't seen many if any other headphone unfold and thrill me like the 650 does with the right amp. 

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Spoiler: text

Quote:

 
I believe the HD650's scalability is overstated tbh. It's a relic from the past when the market was not flooded with quality components at a reasonable price. Those with megabuck components were able to perceive the improvements compared to mediocre gear and shouted their findings from the rafters. That still echoes, despite the abyss in the mid tier level now filled with gear that not only provides a significant improvement over the entry level, but also now competes with (and in the case of sources, exceeds) some of the ToTL of the past.
 
The sky is not the limit with the HD650. My current system was built around the HD800 and although I found a level of performance I could've lived with, I suspected the headphone could go yet another gear. The HD650 on this same setup though reveals its ceiling, as qualities presented that were easily audible and enjoyed through the HD800 are lost through the HD650. That's not to say the HD650 is not enjoyable, I love its characteristics and do think very highly of it. It's just disappointing when you hear its limitations laid bare, particularly when you've become accustomed to the next tier.
 
The silver lining here is that people do not have to spend megabucks to hear the HD650's potential. While there are qualities from my current rig that the Bifrost/Lyr (+ decent tubes) combo could never emulate, that affordable Schiit stack presented a level of performance that I could live with from the HD650. Those settled on this particular headphone could also stop there as well, without the nagging thought that there's a wide beyond to be unlocked from this headphone when investing in better and more costly gear.

 

 

 
While I certainly appreciate your assessment of the 650's scale-ability, I can't agree with it in whole. I often taut the praises of the 650  because it's ability to sound better/scale is about as impressive as I've seen. Many headphones need power to sound their best, some need tubes, some need balanced input. I just haven't seen many if any other headphone unfold and thrill me like the 650 does with the right amp. 

 
What would that amp be? The Lyr? I owned the Lyr and had it matched with Orange Globes, Bugle Boys, and Stuttgarts, well before anyone here realised there's great synergy to be found in the pairing. Search the thread and the tube rolling one as well. I was a lone voice in advocating the Lyr with the HD650.
 
I don't think you've grasp what I've stated. This is the rig my HD650 is plugged into. I don't think there's anymore to unlock.
 
 

 
My current system is a significant improvement over the Bifrost/Lyr combo. The HD800 magnified that difference. The HD650 can't to the same extent, as it's just not capable enough. I'm actually praising the Bifrost/Lyr combo as a damn good rig for the HD650 here. Lol.

 

[yokken]

Quote:

 
While I certainly appreciate your assessment of the 650's scale-ability, I can't agree with it in whole. I often taut the praises of the 650  because it's ability to sound better/scale is about as impressive as I've seen. Many headphones need power to sound their best, some need tubes, some need balanced input. I just haven't seen many if any other headphone unfold and thrill me like the 650 does with the right amp. 

 
Have you really spent some time with a setup 2-3x as costly as yours with the HD650 and been able to say wow, that's so much better? I have no doubt that the HD650 gets better if you give it better upstream components, but they can only get so good. Now... what if Sennheiser made an HD650-sounding HD800? Like, a $1500 HD650... now I bet that sound scale like nobody's business. There's no need to, though... the HD650 is perfect for what it is.

 

[devhen]

Quote:

[...] I have no doubt that the HD650 gets better if you give it better upstream components, but they can only get so good. [...]

 
Exactly. Which is why I don't understand olor1n's original argument. He seemed to be saying that the HD650 doesn't scale well because with his high-end setup it doesn't sound as good as the HD800... 

  What does that have to do with whether or not it scales well? Sure, its proof that it doesn't scale infinitely well to the point that it performs as well as the HD800 when connected to high-end equipment but has anyone seriously claimed that?

 

[olor1n]

******* you lot are defensive. I never stated the HD650 doesn't scale well. Just that sky is not the limit as some would have you believe. Bloody hell.

 

[devhen]

Quote:

******* you lot are defensive. I never stated the HD650 doesn't scale well. Just that sky is not the limit as some would have you believe. Bloody hell.

 
Haha sorry if my post sounded defensive I definitely don't feel that way. Just wondering what your logic was. I see what you mean. And I don't doubt that some people out there would have you believe that the HD650 scales endlessly. But that's pretty silly.

 

[olor1n]

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Quote:

******* you lot are defensive. I never stated the HD650 doesn't scale well. Just that sky is not the limit as some would have you believe. Bloody hell.

 
Haha sorry if my post sounded defensive I definitely don't feel that way. Just wondering what your logic was. I see what you mean. And I don't doubt that some people out there would have you believe that the HD650 scales endlessly. But that's pretty silly.

 
Did you read the other posts prior to mine? There's this wonderful thing called context. Goes a long to understanding where someone is coming from. 

 

[devhen]

Quote:

 
Did you read the other posts prior to mine? There's this wonderful thing called context. Goes a long to understanding where someone is coming from. 

 
Sorry I've only been following this thread for a few days and I hadn't notice any particularly over-the-top claims of scaling but I don't doubt it.