[PhoebeFairchild]

Hmm. Duly noted. I will start to consider current generation top of the line headphones and headphone replacement cables if applicable to the specific make and model in January 2013. I just got my Sennheiser HD-650 headphones this past Tuesday, March 6th, 2012. When I got them, they needed to be burned in for at least 100 hours. I have not reached that mark yet. I think it is too premature for me to consider another headphone. Besides, I really want the Cardas headphone replacement cable for my Sennheiser HD-650 headphones by next Wednesday. I can not form a cogent opinion about the Sennheiser HD-650 headphones without the Cardas headphone replacement cable. This Moon Audio Blue Dragon cable is not a good match for my audio system which uses Cardas Golden Reference cabling almost exclusively. I owned the Sennheiser HD-600 headphones with the Cardas headphone replacement cable years ago and I generally liked what I heard. It just sounded right to my ears, but I was using a $120 USD Panasonic portable CD player as my source component at that time. Today, I have a $5,000 USD CD player at home.
 
I have to make friends with someone who has a Sennheiser HD-800. I can't go by what manufacturers and authorized Sennheiser resellers write for their reviews of the HD-800. I do trust professional reviewers and I have to start researching articles about the HD-800 on Stereophile, The Absolute Sound, and Playback magazine.
 
People keep telling me that I should get a top of the line headphone instead of the Sennheiser HD-650 headphone for my audio system. I think it is time to listen to their advice and pursue this goal early next year.
 
In the meantime, I will be buying more music. I do not anticipate purchasing any more audio components for the rest of this year. I have to build up my CD library with recent 2012 releases as the rest of my music is older.

 

[jtaylor991]

Good for you! I bet the 650s will sound nice for you in the meantime.
 
And good idea to burn them in. I hated my 650s for a while at first, everything sounded like it was directly to my left or right, virtually no soundstage. This was with a FiiO  E7, so I expected them to sound bad considering it is a $100 mobile amp and DAC. They slowly got better over like 5hrs, to listenable quality, and once I upgraded amps they sounded right! I still think another sound signature than the 650s would be better for me, but they suit me just fine for now.
 
Buy more music! That's the most important thing of all!
 

 

[ac500]

Quote:

I can not form a cogent opinion about the Sennheiser HD-650 headphones without the Cardas headphone replacement cable. [...] Today, I have a $5,000 USD CD player at home. [...]

 
Tilpo: I was of course joking, in my weird nerdy way. I didn't mean to say that all opinions are partially "right", because the whole foundation of modern society is that there is empirically right and wrong claims at least under a certain domain and probabilistic tolerance. I was jokingly explaining that the world suffers from a collective scientific illiteracy that is very harmful as a whole, leading to otherwise well-informed people being willfully ignorant and even defiant of very basic scientific principles.
 
For example, humanities professors are known to joke "LOL I was never good at math" and that's unfortunately viewed as a cute/funny socially reinforced, accepted, and even expected thing. This is a disastrous reality of our culture, and embarrassment to such branches of academia, and a disgusting thing to be culturally accepted in any context. You don't see scientists saying "LOL I was never good at reading and writing" -- or if you do it's something generally looked down upon. In the grand scale of things, scientific illiteracy forms a fog of selective anti-intellectualism which IMO is just as disastrous as the pervasive anti-intellectualism that exists among working class families some of the western world.
 
My ultimate point was that given an partially anti-intellectual subculture or willful ignorance, endeavors to remedy such tragedies require delicacy and tact to avoid creating further resentment or rejection of learning certain intellectual fields. In other words, if someone's "opinion" is wrong, telling them so outright often causes an emotional response which encourages debate for the sake of debate, and a mental fortification of one's views for the sake of "being right" alone. 
 
I'm historically not always the most tactful person when it comes to illiterate people, for example, possibly as a result of my having grown up as a flat out redneck before my long journey to becoming a scientist/engineer; ignorance annoys me.

 

[Tilpo]

 
Tilpo: I was of course joking, in my weird nerdy way. I didn't mean to say that all opinions are partially "right", because the whole foundation of modern society is that there is empirically right and wrong claims at least under a certain domain and probabilistic tolerance. I was jokingly explaining that the world suffers from a collective scientific illiteracy that is very harmful as a whole, leading to otherwise well-informed people being willfully ignorant and even defiant of very basic scientific principles.
 
For example, humanities professors are known to joke "LOL I was never good at math" and that's unfortunately viewed as a cute/funny socially reinforced, accepted, and even expected thing. This is a disastrous reality of our culture, because it is a disgusting thing to be culturally accepted in academia. You don't see scientists saying "LOL I was never good at reading and writing" -- or if you do it's something generally looked down upon. In the grand scale of things, scientific illiteracy forms a fog of selective anti-intellectualism which IMO is just as disastrous as the pervasive anti-intellectualism that exists among working class families some of the western world.

Hmmm, yes. But your post did seem to imply that Phoebe was making wrong decisions as a result of his scientific illiteracy, which is not very nice.

On a related note I do think that scientific literacy is way too low in general. Sometimes the stupidity and ignorance of people just amazes me. Some people believe that ditching school is 'cool', as is getting low grades, and especially in math. This is even the case for people I know quite well.
Luckily I also know some people who are terrible at maths, but at least appreciate the fact that it is a big problem.

I am quite biased on the other hand, since I'm lucky enough to both love science and be talented at mathematics.

 

[ac500]

> Hmmm, yes. But your post did seem to imply that Phoebe was making wrong decisions as a result of his scientific illiteracy, which is not very nice.
 

Of course, that's what I said: I'm one of the most guilty people here of "not being nice" to illiterate people. I admit this. As I said:​

 
> I'm historically not always the most tactful person when it comes to illiterate people, for example, possibly as a result of my having grown up as a flat out redneck before my long journey to becoming a scientist/engineer; ignorance annoys me.
 
Incidentally I certainly am not implying that everyone needs to know advanced number theory or group theory or graph theory or whatever... just that it's important that scientific philosophy and logical thought process (underlying all mathematics and technology) be better understood by all, similarly to how we have come to understand the importance that everyone be capable of eloquent writing and reading. Just as there was a fundamental disrespect and resentment towards the "literates" who can do "fancy pants book readin' and letter writin' " before our culture more pervasively accepted the importance of such things, there is now a problematic disrespect and resentment and distrust towards the scientific collective of knowledge, discovery, and search for truth.
 
This distrust exists only in those who have no clue what they're distrusting -- only on those who have never had a proper education in baseline scientific literacy. In other words, it's a distrust and resentment formed purely out of ignorance, just as with the former resentment and distrust of baseline literacy.

 

[PhoebeFairchild]

I think that we should get back on topic and discuss the Sennheiser HD-650 headphone and its sundry accessories such as replacement cables instead of discussing my writing style or ignorance. This is a very popular thread and it would be a shame if it got locked or deleted by an administrator or moderator should I choose to report abusive posts which I will not do so.

 

[skeptic]

 
Quote:

I think that we should get back on topic and discuss the Sennheiser HD-650 headphone and its sundry accessories such as replacement cables instead of discussing my writing style or ignorance. This is a very popular thread and it would be a shame if it got locked or deleted by an administrator or moderator should I choose to report abusive posts which I will not do so.

Phoebe - there is an entire forum devoted to cables and other accessories.  This isn't it.  This is the HD650 appreciation thread in , and many of us (who have been reading/participating in this thread for years now) greatly appreciate these headphones in stock form - without the need for any recabling.      
 
By this, I do not mean to discourage you from sharing your views/experiences with after market cables, but be fair about it, and recognize there will be dissenters - particularly given the growing objectivist philosophy on head-fi.  Qualifying your statements, as appropriate, with phrases like "to my ears" or "in my opinion" is also going to score you etiquette points.  Alternatively, if you would rather simply post in the cable forum, you likely won't have to deal with those of us who question the sonic benefits of cable upgrades.  Here's a link: http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum    

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 

Phoebe - there is an entire forum devoted to cables and other accessories.  This isn't it.  This is the HD650 appreciation thread in , and many of us (who have been reading/participating in this thread for years now) greatly appreciate these headphones in stock form - without the need for any recabling.      
  

That's funny. Are you making up your own rules for this appreciation thread now? Maybe someone has posted the rules here and I lost the link.
If someone loves their HD-650 with an aftermarket cable, they should be able to discuss it as long as it doesn't get into a debate. For me it's all about making a headphone sound the best it can.
 
Saying we can't discuss the HD-650 with an aftermarket cable is like saying we can't discuss what amp we are using with the HD-650 or what has good synergy with it..
 
Unlike some here, I actually appreciate reviews of cables or amps they're using with the HD-650.
 

 

[jtaylor991]

+1
 
Quote:

That's funny. Are you making up your own rules for this appreciation thread now? Maybe someone has posted the rules here and I lost the link.
If someone loves their HD-650 with an aftermarket cable, they should be able to discuss it as long as it doesn't get into a debate. For me it's all about making a headphone sound the best it can.
 
Saying we can't discuss the HD-650 with an aftermarket cable is like saying we can't discuss what amp we are using with the HD-650 or what has good synergy with it..
 
Unlike some here, I actually appreciate reviews of cables or amps they're using with the HD-650.
 

 

 

[Frank I]

I read the comment about the cable and cant see why Phoebe cant discuss it here. If people like aftermarket cables so be it.

 

[Tilpo]

That's funny. Are you making up your own rules for this appreciation thread now? Maybe someone has posted the rules here and I lost the link.
If someone loves their HD-650 with an aftermarket cable, they should be able to discuss it as long as it doesn't get into a debate. For me it's all about making a headphone sound the best it can.
 
Saying we can't discuss the HD-650 with an aftermarket cable is like saying we can't discuss what amp we are using with the HD-650 or what has good synergy with it..
 
Unlike some here, I actually appreciate reviews of cables or amps they're using with the HD-650.
 

That's not what he meant. But stating things such as 'Cable X gives a night and day difference over stock cables', as if they are some absolute truth can be annoying to some people (like me). Adding statements such as 'in my opinion' and 'to my ears' does make it more appropriate, I think.

You should always consider both sides. If you know a lot of people in this thread believe cables make no difference whatsoever, then consider that fact when posting. Conversely, I know many people believe cables make a difference. As a result I will try not to criticize them in this thread. Additionally I tend to ignore most people's statements about cables, as I simply don't care.
I think both sides should be considerate of each others views, especially since there are both a large number of 'objectivists' and 'non-objectivists'.

 

[skeptic]

Quote:

 

Phoebe - there is an entire forum devoted to cables and other accessories.  This isn't it.  This is the HD650 appreciation thread in , and many of us (who have been reading/participating in this thread for years now) greatly appreciate these headphones in stock form - without the need for any recabling.      
  

That's funny. Are you making up your own rules for this appreciation thread now? Maybe someone has posted the rules here and I lost the link.
If someone loves their HD-650 with an aftermarket cable, they should be able to discuss it as long as it doesn't get into a debate. For me it's all about making a headphone sound the best it can.
 
Saying we can't discuss the HD-650 with an aftermarket cable is like saying we can't discuss what amp we are using with the HD-650 or what has good synergy with it..
 
Unlike some here, I actually appreciate reviews of cables or amps they're using with the HD-650.
 

Interesting how you quoted only my first paragraph and then deliberately misconstrued what I said. Nice strawman.

Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk

Edited to copy and paste in the text of my second paragraph, which was conveniently omitted: "By this, I do not mean to discourage you from sharing your views/experiences with after market cables, but be fair about it, and recognize there will be dissenters - particularly given the growing objectivist philosophy on head-fi. Qualifying your statements, as appropriate, with phrases like "to my ears" or "in my opinion" is also going to score you etiquette points. Alternatively, if you would rather simply post in the cable forum, you likely won't have to deal with those of us who question the sonic benefits of cable upgrades. Here's a link: http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum "

 

[ac500]

Skeptic: Your second paragraph pretty much did defeat tdockweller's point before he even made it by changing the meaning of your first paragraph [edit: hmm, almost as if you went back and edited it in retrospect like I am right now]; In fairness, your first paragraph from that post does sound very different from its intent that the second paragraph clears up. It's sometimes easy to inadvertently take things out of context in internet discussions so I can't blame tdockweiler. But lets not dwell too much on this sub-debate and get too off topic.
 
The point is this forum thread is for HD650 appreciation and discussion in general. This means audiophile voodoo products like digital CD players and cables should neither be a dominant topic nor a diminutive one, and the same applies for genuinely important audiophile products like amps, and controversial ones like analogue cables. In essence: Debate and talk about orbital topics not strictly related to the HD650 is inevitable and within some limit perfectly reasonable for a 400+ page thread, and in fact enriches this thread.
 
Otherwise all we'd have are posts saying "I love my HD650" and "I love X with my HD650" with no interesting interchange of agreement/disagreement/ideas. As much as I agree about liking the HD650, this thread would be rather boring and useless if it was nothing but posts rigidly conforming to "I love my HD650 [with X]".
 
The earlier briefly mentioned topic about whether a ~$5000 CD player and other accessories are capable of bringing the HD650 up to the level of say, an HD800, is relevant to the discussion of the HD650 and its capabilities. Of course matters of digital source components like a CD player are what I'd call "voodoo components" due to being scientifically irrelevant to the sound, but things like analog amps etc. are within plausibility. In either case, providing accounts of experiences with equipment etc. is fine. So is some level of interchange (including debate) about such topics surrounding the context of the HD650.

 

[tdockweiler]

You must have edited the post after I replied, because I hit the quote button that should quote the entire post.
If that message was there I would have not replied.
 
I really wish I would not have replied, so this thread could get back on topic.
Quote:

Interesting how you quoted only my first paragraph and then deliberately misconstrued what I said. Nice strawman.
Sent from my ADR6400L using Tapatalk
Edited to copy and paste in the text of my second paragraph, which was conveniently omitted: "By this, I do not mean to discourage you from sharing your views/experiences with after market cables, but be fair about it, and recognize there will be dissenters - particularly given the growing objectivist philosophy on head-fi. Qualifying your statements, as appropriate, with phrases like "to my ears" or "in my opinion" is also going to score you etiquette points. Alternatively, if you would rather simply post in the cable forum, you likely won't have to deal with those of us who question the sonic benefits of cable upgrades. Here's a link: http://www.head-fi.org/f/21/cables-power-tweaks-speakers-accessories-dbt-free-forum "

 

 

[ac500]

 
Now to get back on topic:
 
As for the claim that the HD650 can in some way reach HD800-class fidelity with the proper amp, all I can really add to this is that I have heard the HD650 on a Beta22 and it still did not come within a mile of an HD800 from a meager NFB12. For this reason I remain skeptical that an HD650 can possibly match an HD800 with any amp, but I remain open-minded.