[jdpark]

 
Thanks, very helpful, I'll keep using my old AKG K501 for string quartets then I have X2 too, which is nice, but I listen many hours a day on headphones, the treble seems exactly what I'm looking for, given my darn tinnitus.
 
Cheers!

I definitely like the AKG K501, and would love to hear a comparison with the HD650 for classical and jazz. The K501 seems to sound good from any amp that has a decent amount of power, but I miss a bit of bass body and sub-bass presence with them, even on some classical recordings, especially contemporary recordings that have really deep and rich bass. 
 
I'm thinking that I might be more interested in the 650 over a T1 or he560 at this point, because I have a Lehmann BCL and I think these other two are not as good with that amp, which doesn't have a ton of power (which the HE560 needs), and is voiced to have tight bass and detailed/emphasized highs (which may make the T1 sound harsh). The amp is good enough that I would rather get suitable headphones than spend a lot on cans and then have to get another amp.
 
Also, do people still recable the 650 to get a bit more of a punchy sound, or has that fad passed? 

 

[Youth]

  I definitely like the AKG K501, and would love to hear a comparison with the HD650 for classical and jazz. The K501 seems to sound good from any amp that has a decent amount of power, but I miss a bit of bass body and sub-bass presence with them, even on some classical recordings, especially contemporary recordings that have really deep and rich bass. 
 
I'm thinking that I might be more interested in the 650 over a T1 or he560 at this point, because I have a Lehmann BCL and I think these other two are not as good with that amp, which doesn't have a ton of power (which the HE560 needs), and is voiced to have tight bass and detailed/emphasized highs (which may make the T1 sound harsh). The amp is good enough that I would rather get suitable headphones than spend a lot on cans and then have to get another amp.
 
Also, do people still recable the 650 to get a bit more of a punchy sound, or has that fad passed? 

 
In my opinion HD650 beats both T1 and HE-560 in most areas on a good system. T1 and HE-560 also have treble peaks which doesn't help them either. Sub-bass on HD650 isn't amazing but everything else is great.
 
Regarding recable I'm getting a Norne Draug 2 cable for my HD650. If it will make a difference sonically I can't say though but at least I'll be able to use it balanced for the Liquid Carbon so in that sense I guess it does make a difference.

 

[Arniesb]

In my opinion HD650 beats both T1 and HE-560 in most areas on a good system. T1 and HE-560 also have treble peaks which doesn't help them either. Sub-bass on HD650 isn't amazing but everything else is great.

Regarding recable I'm getting a Norne Draug 2 cable for my HD650. If it will make a difference sonically I can't say though but at least I'll be able to use it balanced for the Liquid Carbon so in that sense I guess it does make a difference.

Thats good to know that HD650 is better than both. Highs and and mids for me is almost perfection. I can save some money going straight to HD800S i guees. Would be better for music than HD800 if highs and bass is a bit improved.

 

[jdpark]

Well, when you test it out, I'd love to read your impressions of the C-2 single-ended, versus the Cavalli balanced using the 650. Although two different amps, if one is clearly far superior than the other, I would be interested to know.
 
(I also really like the Dac-19 and noticed on that thread that at least one person finds it to be a nice match with the 650, and even found that 'downgrading' from an Audeze X to a 650 wasn't much of a downgrade at all.)   
 
I probably wouldn't recable immediately, but it's sort of nice to know that an upgrade is possible in the future
 
Btw, you may have just said what the hifi-headphone industry doesn't want people to know at the moment: 

   
In my opinion HD650 beats both T1 and HE-560 in most areas on a good system...

 

[mysticstryk]

Well, we all know what they say, diminishing returns sets in quickly past the $500 mark.

 

[Youth]

Thats good to know that HD650 is better than both. Highs and and mids for me is almost perfection. I can save some money going straight to HD800S i guees. Would be better for music than HD800 if highs and bass is a bit improved.

 
I'm hoping that HD800S will be good however I think it's more likely it's gonna be an upgrade for HD600 rather than HD650. I also don't like them adding balanced cable just to raise the price.
 
 

  Well, when you test it out, I'd love to read your impressions of the C-2 single-ended, versus the Cavalli balanced using the 650. Although two different amps, if one is clearly far superior than the other, I would be interested to know.
 
(I also really like the Dac-19 and noticed on that thread that at least one person finds it to be a nice match with the 650, and even found that 'downgrading' from an Audeze X to a 650 wasn't much of a downgrade at all.)   
 
I probably wouldn't recable immediately, but it's sort of nice to know that an upgrade is possible in the future
 
Btw, you may have just said what the hifi-headphone industry doesn't want people to know at the moment: 

 
I will let you know when I get the LC, my gut tells me it's gonna be better but let's see. Yes, DAC 19 is indeed an amazing DAC. One I'm gonna hold on to for a while I think.
 
Regarding the "downgrading" from Audeze X I totally agree with you. In fact I like the HD650 better than all of the Audeze headphones and I honestly think they are uncomfortable, overpriced junk. I haven't heard the new LCD-4 though but I wouldn't be surprised if it falls into that category as well. 
 
Yep, it's nice with detachable cables indeed. Apart from needing balanced the reason why I'm getting it done is because HD650 is one I plan to keep for a long time since it doesn't seem like the headphone industry is taking things seriously... or rather, should I say the consumers.
 
"Btw, you may have just said what the hifi-headphone industry doesn't want people to know at the moment"
 
Well, hype-fi sure is trying it's best to prevent that but if I can help at least one person by saying that then I'm happy.

 

[Solrighal]

   
I'm hoping that HD800S will be good however I think it's more likely it's gonna be an upgrade for HD600 rather than HD650. I also don't like them adding balanced cable just to raise the price.
 
 
 
I will let you know when I get the LC, my gut tells me it's gonna be better but let's see. Yes, DAC 19 is indeed an amazing DAC. One I'm gonna hold on to for a while I think.
 
Regarding the "downgrading" from Audeze X I totally agree with you. In fact I like the HD650 better than all of the Audeze headphones and I honestly think they are uncomfortable, overpriced junk. I haven't heard the new LCD-4 though but I wouldn't be surprised if it falls into that category as well. 
 
Yep, it's nice with detachable cables indeed. Apart from needing balanced the reason why I'm getting it done is because HD650 is one I plan to keep for a long time since it doesn't seem like the headphone industry is taking things seriously... or rather, should I say the consumers.
 
"Btw, you may have just said what the hifi-headphone industry doesn't want people to know at the moment"
 
Well, hype-fi sure is trying it's best to prevent that but if I can help at least one person by saying that then I'm happy.

 
+1

 

[Music Path]

  Well, we all know what they say, diminishing returns sets in quickly past the $500 mark.

Yep, that is one important fact to notice when buying. Always good to remember. 
 
 

   
I'm hoping that HD800S will be good however I think it's more likely it's gonna be an upgrade for HD600 rather than HD650. I also don't like them adding balanced cable just to raise the price.
 
 
 
I will let you know when I get the LC, my gut tells me it's gonna be better but let's see. Yes, DAC 19 is indeed an amazing DAC. One I'm gonna hold on to for a while I think.
 
Regarding the "downgrading" from Audeze X I totally agree with you. In fact I like the HD650 better than all of the Audeze headphones and I honestly think they are uncomfortable, overpriced junk. I haven't heard the new LCD-4 though but I wouldn't be surprised if it falls into that category as well. 
 
Yep, it's nice with detachable cables indeed. Apart from needing balanced the reason why I'm getting it done is because HD650 is one I plan to keep for a long time since it doesn't seem like the headphone industry is taking things seriously... or rather, should I say the consumers.
 
"Btw, you may have just said what the hifi-headphone industry doesn't want people to know at the moment"
 
Well, hype-fi sure is trying it's best to prevent that but if I can help at least one person by saying that then I'm happy.

Could you describe in short why in terms of sound you think that, compared to the HD650? Apart from being heavy, which i personally agree.
I have both audeze and hd650, and i like both. And wasn't disappointed by the audeze. I got them with at a lower price though. Law of diminishing return kicks in fast after the HD650 price tag, which the audeze and many other like T1 and he560 etc.are in...
There aren´t many HPs with the quality/price ratio of the HD650. Though there are better HPs in terms of speed and bass for ex.... depends on what you want.
Just because one doesn´t like, it doesnt make it alot worse, or even "junk". This is subjective, and i personally said it many times on the forum. Thats why it is better to listen things for yourself.

Well, hype-fi sure is trying it's best to prevent that but if I can help at least one person by saying that then I'm happy.

Yeah one must be carefull reading reviews, another reason to listen things for yourself.
 

 

[castleofargh]

my take on this is that of course it's totally subjective. headphones are soooooo different from one another. the objective information is here only to help shortening the list of stuff one might like. and because it's so very subjective, I tend not to go at it trying to have the best sound, the highest quality, the TOTL product or stuff like this. I know for a fact such goals have no end. there will always be a new one, a better something at least in one particular spec. that's like trying to be rich, if there is no roof to hit, no matter how high you get, there will always be a higher place and a new product. it's a sure method to fail happiness when your goals have no set limit.
 
so instead I focus on removing the nagging elements. and about that more than anything else, we cannot listen to other people's opinion. only you know what makes you explode. it would be silly to rely on strangers to tell me what will annoy me in a headphone. for sound I would be very happy with a LCD2, I do prefer it to a hd650. but the weight trumps all in my case. the hd650 could be half the headphone it is, just because it's light and comfy, it would probably still be my first pick.
the hd800 is a noticeably superior headphone, but I can't stand the signature. so would it make sense to pay the extra buck for a hd800 just to end up EQing it as a HD650? not to me. but that might be the audio nirvana of another dude. we put different value on different things. but what's for sure, if your headphone does nothing that gets on your nerve, then it's an amazing headphone for you!
IMO what's missing to the hd650 is that it doesn't go back on its stand by itself when the job is done, roomba style. you know with little wheels around the earcups. but I'm afraid it would make it too heavy so I settle with the actual hd650. life is hard.

 

 

[cddc]

 
I hear you.  I've unsubscribed from this thread a couple times because I got so tired of the non-stop schiit/crack discussion. Many months ago I made a very similar post about why the Sennheiser amps are not even on the list for consideration. I had the HDVA600 for quite a while and posted in this thread many times about how good it is.  I also had the Schiit Mjonir at the same time and the HDVA600 was a much more refined sounding amp with Sennheisers as well as other phones. Currently I prefer the Oppo HA-1 though, which is just an incredible amp for only $1200.00.

 
Finished reading all the 50 posts regarding HDVD800 in this particular thread. Saw your comments on HDVA600. I have to agree with you, there is literally no serious discussion on the official Sennheiser HDVD800 or HDVA600 DAC/Amp, nor in depth reviews. It's really really bizarre in a Sennheiser fan thread!!!
 
I am researching for my next upgrade. I am hoping to find something like the HD650, once you find it you'll stop shopping around anymore for headphones. For headphones I will say it is a fairly easy decision for me. Did my research on head-fi, quickly discovered the HD650, and never regretted buying it. But it is definitely never the case for DAC and amp. 
 
I was thinking of Multibit Bifrost ($650) + WA3 ($540) or SB Crack ($421) , but the combo is not balanced. Going down the road I might want to purchase a pair of HD800S if my time on classical music increases in the future. So no balanced output is definitely a big limitation. So if I go higher for the ones with balanced output, say get a Benchmark DAC1 ($1200) + Bryston HBA-1 ($1400), then this DAC/Amp combo in total costs more than the official Sennheiser HDVD800 ($2200). Plus someone has already compared them and concluded HDVD800 sounds better than the DAC1 + HBA-1 combo.
 
Is HDVD800 that bad in terms of performance or value/price ratio so that there is literally no discussion on it here in a Senn fan thread? I really don't understand it. I'd really appreciate it if people here can shed some light on the topic!

 

[Solrighal]

Maybe it's because the Sennheiser amps are hugely expensive? I don't even read about them because they're so far out of my range.

 

[oatp1b1]

It's probably more widely mentioned in the HD800 thread.

 

[cddc]

  Maybe it's because the Sennheiser amps are hugely expensive? I don't even read about them because they're so far out of my range.

 
I agree with you that a $2200 HDVD800 is not cheap, but also not overwhelmingly expensive. Lots of fellows here own Eddie Currents, their amps alone cost $2000+, not to mention the DACs paired with them.
 
Lots of HD650 fellows here might consider upgrades in the future. To the fellows like me HD800 or HD800S is a natural choice. So I think HDVD800 would be pretty good in this case. HDVD800 works great with HD650, and in the future if I purchase a pair of HD800S, it will also work great with the new pair. It will actually save me some money, say, if I buy a Brimby + SB Crack combo now and ditch it in the future. 

 

[Sal1950]

  my take on this is that of course it's totally subjective. headphones are soooooo different from one another. the objective information is here only to help shortening the list of stuff one might like. and because it's so very subjective, I tend not to go at it trying to have the best sound, the highest quality, the TOTL product or stuff like this. I know for a fact such goals have no end. there will always be a new one, a better something at least in one particular spec. that's like trying to be rich, if there is no roof to hit, no matter how high you get, there will always be a higher place and a new product. it's a sure method to fail happiness when your goals have no set limit.
 
so instead I focus on removing the nagging elements. and about that more than anything else, we cannot listen to other people's opinion. only you know what makes you explode. it would be silly to rely on strangers to tell me what will annoy me in a headphone. for sound I would be very happy with a LCD2, I do prefer it to a hd650. but the weight trumps all in my case. the hd650 could be half the headphone it is, just because it's light and comfy, it would probably still be my first pick.
the hd800 is a noticeably superior headphone, but I can't stand the signature. so would it make sense to pay the extra buck for a hd800 just to end up EQing it as a HD650? not to me. but that might be the audio nirvana of another dude. we put different value on different things. but what's for sure, if your headphone does nothing that gets on your nerve, then it's an amazing headphone for you!
IMO what's missing to the hd650 is that it doesn't go back on its stand by itself when the job is done, roomba style. you know with little wheels around the earcups. but I'm afraid it would make it too heavy so I settle with the actual hd650. life is hard.

 

A very thoughtful and intelligent approach to Hi Fi, one in which I share with you.  I read so much here and on other forums about how much others agonize over tiny details and are constantly switching components almost as often as they change their underwear. They've turned playing with the gear itself into it's own hobby. Each to their own I guess, whatever makes them happy but they seem so involved in playing with the gear sometimes I wonder when they have time to just listen to and enjoy the music?
Have a Wonderful  and Blessed Thanksgiving Everyone.
Sal

 

[donlin]

I can't comment on the dac portion of the hdvd800 but as an amp, it's up there with the best, not just for Sennheisers. There's a strange phenomenon on head fi concerning amps. Anything made by a mainstream company such as sennheiser, bryston, musical fidelity, oppo etc gets zero interest. Only certain small, garage type companies are widely discussed. It almost seems like the longer the wait time for delivery the better. I've read posts by guys waiting months. My personal experience with quite a few of the head fi darling companies has been pretty bad with regard to the amps working properly. That's one reason I tend to focus more on mainstream high-end companies. They just seem to have things more figured out when it comes to a finished product.