[SomeGuyDude]

  That really sucks. I got mine on amazon. 
 
Ah, I've had my HD 600 since around October, it was a gift from a friend. True, I had the never ending nagging to compare the HD 600 and HD 650 since I got my HD 600. I'm loving the HD 650 so much I'm not sure what to do with my HD 600.

 
It's one of those things where the comparisons are so all over the place that unless I see for myself I won't know. It's not like with some where peoples' descriptions can tell me if I'd be interested or at least have a consistent thread to them.

 

[kman1211]

   
It's one of those things where the comparisons are so all over the place that unless I see for myself I won't know. It's not like with some where peoples' descriptions can tell me if I'd be interested or at least have a consistent thread to them.

The impressions and comparisons are all over the place. Though there are some trends in comparisons between the two.

 

[mikoss]

One very good thing I found at meets is that the people who own the headphones normally have found some very solid gear to go with them... what I mean by this is that you can get a chance to hear some flagship or even summitfi headphones that are properly driven, and compare the experience to your current set up.
 
Having heard the HD-700, 800's, as well as LCD-2.2's, and some very expensive Stax set-ups, I can firmly say that I am completely happy with my 650's. I really enjoyed hearing the other headphones, and they certainly have their merits, but at some point it starts coming down to personal preference of presentation. (I certainly acknowledge the technical superiority of other headphones as well, but I'm in love with the 650's for what they do for all the right reasons.)

 

[kman1211]

  One very good thing I found at meets is that the people who own the headphones normally have found some very solid gear to go with them... what I mean by this is that you can get a chance to hear some flagship or even summitfi headphones that are properly driven, and compare the experience to your current set up.
 
Having heard the HD-700, 800's, as well as LCD-2.2's, and some very expensive Stax set-ups, I can firmly say that I am completely happy with my 650's. I really enjoyed hearing the other headphones, and they certainly have their merits, but at some point it starts coming down to personal preference of presentation. (I certainly acknowledge the technical superiority of other headphones as well, but I'm in love with the 650's for what they do for all the right reasons.)

I understand what you mean. I've heard numerous flagship headphones and honestly I can say I'm happy with the HD 650 regardless, most flagships don't seem fully to encompass what the HD 650 does. There were only two flagship headphones of over the numerous flagships I've heard that completely blew me away and did everything better than the HD 650, but they were the Orpheus and the bass-heavy R10 both of which are near impossible to find and prohibitively expensive. Of the current flagships I haven't heard anything that is a complete step-up from the HD 650, there are some somewhat similar in presentation and technically better but they don't quite have the same emotion and beauty to their sound as the HD 650, many of the flagships had their own charm and a different sort of musicality, but not really the same as the HD 650.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

If I would have strolled into a store and listened to the HD-650 for 30 minutes, I would have walked out without the HD-650s in my hand and probably would have left even earlier. They are now one of my favorite headphones I have heard. To prescribe that everyone should be able to make snap judgments, running through all the different genres and recordings available for a headphone to show its stuff, within 30 minutes, is equally absurd, especially in the case of someone for whom this is their first ever audiophile headphone purchase, as it was for me with the HD-650. I think 2 weeks is a more reasonable length of time. Another great example is the Grado 225s, which I hated for an entire week after running them through my files. I gradually, however, became addicted to their sound signature; I was underwhelmed by my AKG Q701s when I first had them (but was expecting initial disappointment through experience), but once I gave them a chance with certain genres of music, I found they offered a new perspective from which to appreciate my music that did not conflict with that of the Sennheisers; finally, my HE-500s sounded lackluster for the first few days to me, and anyone who knows my posts on other threads realizes my appreciation for these headphones now. 
 
It would be more accurate to say that some people may be capable of making a decision with 30 minutes whether they like a pair of headphones, and if it is an informed decision, it is probably a result of some experience in audio previously, being aware of ones preferences, and even coming in with a variety of recordings to test out. But it is equally viable to remember those people (happy with their Apple earbuds) who did not even give quality headphones a chance, deciding within minutes they sounded the same as every other headphone, as if closing their minds. I do not think anything should be forced on those with such preferences, but I am not going to take their opinion on headphones very seriously at all. 

 

[kman1211]

  If I would have strolled into a store and listened to the HD-650 for 30 minutes, I would have walked out without the HD-650s in my hand and probably would have left even earlier. They are now one of my favorite headphones I have heard. To prescribe that everyone should be able to make snap judgments, running through all the different genres and recordings available for a headphone to show its stuff, within 30 minutes, is equally absurd, especially in the case of someone for whom this is their first ever audiophile headphone purchase, as it was for me with the HD-650. I think 2 weeks is a more reasonable length of time. Another great example is the Grado 225s, which I hated for an entire week after running them through my files. I gradually, however, became addicted to their sound signature; I was underwhelmed by my AKG Q701s when I first had them (but was expecting initial disappointment through experience), but once I gave them a chance with certain genres of music, I found they offered a new perspective from which to appreciate my music that did not conflict with that of the Sennheisers; finally, my HE-500s sounded lackluster for the first few days to me, and anyone who knows my posts on other threads realizes my appreciation for these headphones now. 
 
It would be more accurate to say that some people may be capable of making a decision with 30 minutes whether they like a pair of headphones, and if it is an informed decision, it is probably a result of some experience in audio previously, being aware of ones preferences, and even coming in with a variety of recordings to test out. But it is equally viable to remember those people (happy with their Apple earbuds) who did not even give quality headphones a chance, deciding within minutes they sounded the same as every other headphone, as if closing their minds. I do not think anything should be forced on those with such preferences, but I am not going to take their opinion on headphones very seriously at all. 

That is true, many factors can influence your audition as well such as mood, etc. And the problem with the store is that you won't know how it sounds on your system. I have come across headphones that hate my system even though I would expect them to love it. My system sounds quite different than many systems, the thing is smooth, intimate, thick rich, and heavy sounding but very clear and spacious at the same time. Not really an airy sounding system though. The HD 650 sounds very rich, full, and heavy but that's what I want in my sound a heavy solidity. I found my K712 took a while to appreciate, it's one of my favorite headphones, I use it when I want some more air and spaciousness in my sound and a more neutral and slightly more aggressive sound but still quite and warm and rich, the thing has almost as much bass as my HD 650, but the bass is tighter and digs a bit deeper and it's also less harsh than the HD 600 up top despite having more energy on my system. I've never heard any of the current grado's, how are they?
 
There are some headphones I can decided within probably 30 minutes if I want them or not but not many, I personally think if you are able to audition a headphone multiple times, that will really help, because you may have a different experience the next time you listen to it.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Personally, I think if you actually hated the headphones you mentioned you wouldn't have kept listening to them. Clearly there was something alluring to their sound. You wouldn't have sat through them genuinely disliking them. You heard elements you liked and kept with them until you eventually overcame the flaws.
 
Given enough time, anyone can grow to appreciate any headphone. Any time someone talks about time needed before rendering judgement on a headphone it is ALWAYS in the sense of someone saying they weren't a fan of something, discounting that, and saying to come back in X days/weeks/months. You stick Grados on a bass-head and say that's all they can listen to for a month, by the end they'll find plenty of good things to say about them. Slap some M-100s on a treble guy and the same will be true. I've never seen anyone say "okay fine you like them NOW, but wait three weeks and you'll be sick of them." People never talk about adoring headphones and then after two weeks suddenly wanting to take them back (well, sometimes they do when a flaw in them was just impossible to overlook). 
 
This is just basic human psychology. Entrench yourself in anything of quality, even if its well outside your normal habits, and eventually you'll start to like it. Human beings acclimate. If after a few weeks you suddenly fell in love with whatever headphone, all that's telling us is that you stuck with them long enough to grow to like them. That's how it goes. It's not that your opinion wasn't valid at the beginning. For lack of a better phrase, you end up Stockholm Syndrome-ing yourself until you like them, and clearly it was because you had reason to push into it. 
 
I did not like the Grados I heard. Not the RS line, not the SR line. The PS500 was not bad. I do not want to spend two weeks of my life with any of them. I am not wrong. I did not enjoy my time with them and heard nothing in them that I wanted to pursue. In your case, obviously you did. You say you wouldn't have bought them if you'd only spent thirty minutes with them, but does that mean you keep spending hours and hours of listening to headphones you don't like? What a terrible thing to recommend others do. And how many hours are you talking? You keep saying a week or two weeks, but how many hours per day? How much time, precisely, does it take to decide what you think of a headphone? Is 2 hours a day enough?
 
Let's say 2 hours per day for 14 days. Let's then say you have, oh, seven headphones you're trying to decide among. That's a cumulative ONE HUNDRED AND NINETY SIX HOURS you're telling someone they need to listen to all of these devices, with what you've already described as VERY specific criteria with a cross-section among genres, in order to make a valid purchase decision. Can't you see how crazy this is? 
 
I mean if that's your process, fine, but man it's going to leave a lot of people paranoid about buying headphones. It's not fun any more. It's work. I want my headphones to be fun. I want to buy things that sound good to me, there's no pleasure in "gutting through" a sound I hate in the hopes that EVENTUALLY I'll start liking it. If my tastes shift over time, so be it, but I'd rather it happen organically than forcing myself. 
 
EDIT: Example, I do not tell people to try various genres. Listen to the music you listen to normally. Otherwise you're no longer using headphones to enjoy your music, you're listening to equipment. That's just backwards, to me. 
 
DOUBLE EDIT: however, this is all WILDLY off topic. I will not keep this one up because it's distracting. I've said everything I have to say, any more posts would be me saying it again, hopefully I didn't offend anyone. I'll HOPEFULLY be heading somewhere to sample the HD650s again this weekend. Might snag 'em.

 

[Shaffer]

Personally, I don't listen to anything in stores - headphones or components. I will try cans for fit, but that's about it. If I'm interested in a headphone, I buy it. With high-performance home gear, where the cost is fairly high, I either borrow the piece from a shop or have it sent to me. A home audition is absolutely essential.

 

[kman1211]

I understand what you are saying and honestly I do agree with what you are pretty much saying. But I have also come across pad break-in and burn-in affecting some headphones sound quite a bit. So if you audition the headphone I find if the headphone is a well used display model as it makes a difference. And sometimes the right system can eliminate pretty much all your complaints on a headphones sound. Honestly I think 30 minutes to a couple hours is good for an initial impression to see if you like the headphone enough to want spend more time with the headphone or not. But I think up to a week or two are good to find any potential minor sound issues start bothering you that you may not of noticed at first. If someone is having major issues with the sound immediately or early on, I think the headphone should be ignored or returned. If you are on the fence about a headphone, more listening and different systems is likely required.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  I understand what you are saying and honestly I do agree with what you are pretty much saying. But I have also come across pad break-in and burn-in affecting some headphones sound quite a bit. So if you audition the headphone I find if the headphone is a well used display model as it makes a difference. And sometimes the right system can eliminate pretty much all your complaints on a headphones sound. Honestly I think 30 minutes to a couple hours is good for an initial impression to see if you like the headphone enough to want spend more time with the headphone or not. But I think up to a week or two are good to find any potential minor sound issues start bothering you that you may not of noticed at first. If someone is having major issues with the sound immediately or early on, I think the headphone should be ignored or returned. 

 
Oh yeah, whoa. Okay haha I definitely needed to mention that it had to be a valid in-store audition. Everything in good condition, straight pipe into the hardware (no Best Buy or Brookstone "demo stations"), no outside noise if you're using open backs.
 
That's actually one reason I think I might snag a pair of 650s. I have played with a lot of headphones, and owned a bunch more. I was surprised by the 650s more than almost anything else. I mean seriously surprised. The main reason I DIDN'T buy them was at the time I had no interest in external amplification. Currently I'm using my audio interface with my HD600s (yes, I know, not optimal, don't care, I do recording work and it sounds good out of it), and since they should drive equally easily I'm in a prime spot to pick 'em up. I figured with how light they were and that in general I wasn't a fan of open-backs at that point that I wouldn't really like them, but was seriously impressed. They've been sitting as my potential end-gamers for some time now.

 

[Guidostrunk]

30 minutes is all it takes. Lol.

 

[kman1211]

   
Oh yeah, whoa. Okay haha I definitely needed to mention that it had to be a valid in-store audition. Everything in good condition, straight pipe into the hardware (no Best Buy or Brookstone "demo stations"), no outside noise if you're using open backs.
 
That's actually one reason I think I might snag a pair of 650s. I have played with a lot of headphones, and owned a bunch more. I was surprised by the 650s more than almost anything else. I mean seriously surprised. The main reason I DIDN'T buy them was at the time I had no interest in external amplification. Currently I'm using my audio interface with my HD600s (yes, I know, not optimal, don't care, I do recording work and it sounds good out of it), and since they should drive equally easily I'm in a prime spot to pick 'em up. I figured with how light they were and that in general I wasn't a fan of open-backs at that point that I wouldn't really like them, but was seriously impressed. They've been sitting as my potential end-gamers for some time now.

True, which can honestly be quite hard to do. External noise is very distracting when listening to open-backs at first.
 
So you have heard the HD 650 in the past? The HD 650 is pretty similar to the HD 600 in drivability but they are a bit more demanding than the HD 600 but seem to reward you a bit more in the end as well. Only thing with listening to the HD 650 you may find the HD 600 a little harsh afterwards, that's been my experience at least.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  True, which can honestly be quite hard to do. External noise is very distracting when listening to open-backs at first.
 
So you have heard the HD 650 in the past? The HD 650 is pretty similar to the HD 600 in drivability but they are a bit more demanding than the HD 600 but seem to reward you a bit more in the end as well. Only thing with listening to the HD 650 you may find the HD 600 a little harsh afterwards, that's been my experience at least.

 
I have, but it wasn't in optimal conditions. It was at AC Gears in NYC, amplified with a portable. I remember being really surprised and having a feeling of "if I was aiming for open backs I'd get these". This was after sitting in a silent room (HiDef Lifestyle) listening to stuff like the LCD-2f, HD800, and RS-1 out of a Burson Conductor. I was more impressed with the HD650 than the others. 
 
It might have been due to expectations. I know that sitting down with all the summit-fi gear I was anticipating hearing a choir of angels whereas the HD650s were just plucked off a wall with a portable, so I heard a 9 expecting a 10 and an 8 expecting a 6, but I remember REALLY liking them. Just really LIKING them. I don't remember thinking they were flawless by any stretch, I just remember walking out of there with a seriously positive impression. 

 

[penmarker]

I cannot for the life of me judge open backed headphones in stores or malls. Maybe some closed and quiet stores like Jaben would be okay, but those hifi stores that open inside shopping malls where there are music blaring from every other store on the same hallway and people talking and walking, all the details just fade in the background.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

  I cannot for the life of me judge open backed headphones in stores or malls. Maybe some closed and quiet stores like Jaben would be okay, but those hifi stores that open inside shopping malls where there are music blaring from every other store on the same hallway and people talking and walking, all the details just fade in the background.

 
That'd be HiDef. It's so quiet in there I actually felt like I was disturbing people by listening to music on the opens.