[donlin]

Hmm I wonder how a LCD-3 would complement my HD650s... any thoughts?

I had been listening to the LCD 3 for a year before getting my current 650. The LCD 3 is now sold with no regrets.

 

[whirlwind]

 

  Got Grado SR60s in '94, have Senn 650s on my head and the 800s are sitting in the corner.  

FWIW, I've seen that comment repeated a number of times, across different threads. I had a chance to listen to the HD 800 at a meet, connected to Glenn OTL amp, and I was impressed. In fact, that listening experience made me take a hard look at getting an OTL amp for my 650s.
 
So, you really don't use your 800s anymore?

This is the amp that I am getting for my HD800 and once i get it and have compiled a couple of sets of tubes and if i like it.....I may grab the HD650 again , as I have heard it is an amazing pairing with both the HD800 and the 600 & 650's.

 

[HiSenn5]

My K701s right driver died a month ago. I've then sold my HD650s and bought the HD800. Bad decision... The HD 800 is stunning. Timing, instument localisation, detail - everything overwhelming, BUT, quite frankly, it never gets as good as the HD650. The HD650 sounds organic, it pulls you into the music. The HD800 on the other hand: It's just an cold presentation, without magic. Ear fatigue is another point: I have to put the HD800 off after 1-2 hours. Never had those problems with the HD650 nor the K701. I hope this will settle with burn-in. If someone would ask me which heaphone he or she should buy, I'd say without missing a beat: Get the HD650 or HD600.

 

[Xeculus]

I had been listening to the LCD 3 for a year before getting my current 650. The LCD 3 is now sold with no regrets.

 
Can definitely see why based off a quick glance at your music preferences. I briefly auditioned the LCD-3 a few weeks ago and I greatly favored the HD650s for classical tracks. Electronic music on the other hand, initially sounded a bit better for me with the LCD-3 particularly with bass. But they are definitely not worth the $1.6k more, for sure. Hmm, perhaps I should give the Senn amp some thought.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

  Well, the day has arrived to ask the question: Where do I go from Here?
 
I love my HD 650s, but post-upgrade of my desktop rig, and a lot of listening, I am finding I want something more. I am discovering a growing collection of music that doesn't sound pleasing with the HD 650s. Basically anything with exaggerated lower-mids becomes fatiguing, at some point.
 
I was trying to listen to Agnes Obel the other night and some of the tracks were downright painful (Agnes' voice is wonderful, if not a little sibilant, and the piano is a horror-show of bad audio mastering).
 
Part of my problem may be that I've been listening to my 'phones for at least 5 hours a night (often until 2AM before turning in, and I've wondered if I am just tired and need a break). I've also made a point of keeping the volume low(ish). On the Woo WA3, I rarely dial above 10 o'clock with the HD 650s.
 
Sometimes switching to my Grado RS2i is like opening a window and breathing fresh air ... until I come across music with elevated higher frequencies, where it doesn't sound like real music anymore, or I am listening to music dominated by warm guitars or vocals, where I really miss the HD 650s.
 
I've played around with EQ'ing, but what I end up doing in the above cases is just cranking down the mids, at which point I ask myself if I just need different cans.
 
Do I really need to spend $1,500.00 US for something like an HD 800, or am I better off getting a third pair of mid-tier 'phones and switching between them all, depending on the music?
 
I suspect anyone that's been a heavy user of the HD 650 has hit a similar point and I am very curious what's a next step that makes sense. Rants/thoughts welcomed.

 
I've read past this and saw the other replies and I'd like to add two points:
 
1) You are moving up the food chain, gear wise, and you might be at the point where your system is revealing flaws in the quality of recordings you are listening to.  Maybe its time to look at the actual music, and not the gear moving it to your ears?  It's just a thought that's usually overlooked.  The term "the HD650 scales well" might be overused here, but I truly believe that.  I'm normally a believer that the cost of amplification and headphone should be similar (like the old home amp to speaker ratios).  But, with the HD650 I take zero umbrage with pairing them with an amp that way above the price of these cans.  And that leads me to point #2
 
2) If you feel the desire to go to the HD800, or any other revealing can in the flagship range, its more likely then not going to be a commitment to other near flagship pieces of gear as well.  My small amount of personal experience with the HD800 has led me to only want to listen to them through a top notch tube amplifier.  I appreciate what they can do through top flight solid state gear (like the GS-X Mk2), but I don't find the sound to be very entertaining.
 
My 2015 HD650 New Year's resolution is hopefully going to be a near top flight tube amplifier that drives an HD800 nicely.  I know that sounds a bit weird, but I never met an amp that nicely drives an HD800 that doesn't also do wonders for an HD650.

 

[donlin]

Can definitely see why based off a quick glance at your music preferences. I briefly auditioned the LCD-3 a few weeks ago and I greatly favored the HD650s for classical tracks. Electronic music on the other hand, initially sounded a bit better for me with the LCD-3 particularly with bass. But they are definitely not worth the $1.6k more, for sure. Hmm, perhaps I should give the Senn amp some thought.

You really should at least consider trying the Senn amp.

 

[donlin]

I've read past this and saw the other replies and I'd like to add two points:

1) You are moving up the food chain, gear wise, and you might be at the point where your system is revealing flaws in the quality of recordings you are listening to.  Maybe its time to look at the actual music, and not the gear moving it to your ears?  It's just a thought that's usually overlooked.  The term "the HD650 scales well" might be overused here, but I truly believe that.  I'm normally a believer that the cost of amplification and headphone should be similar (like the old home amp to speaker ratios).  But, with the HD650 I take zero umbrage with pairing them with an amp that way above the price of these cans.  And that leads me to point #2

2) If you feel the desire to go to the HD800, or any other revealing can in the flagship range, its more likely then not going to be a commitment to other near flagship pieces of gear as well.  My small amount of personal experience with the HD800 has led me to only want to listen to them through a top notch tube amplifier.  I appreciate what they can do through top flight solid state gear (like the GS-X Mk2), but I don't find the sound to be very entertaining.

My 2015 HD650 New Year's resolution is hopefully going to be a near top flight tube amplifier that drives an HD800 nicely.  I know that sounds a bit weird, but I never met an amp that nicely drives an HD800 that doesn't also do wonders for an HD650.

This is an excellent post. Some music just sounds bad and better equipment makes that even more apparent. Also agree that there is no gear that is too good for the 650 as it benefits from any upstream improvements.

 

[Thebb]

   
After installing Speedball everything came alive. To what people have said about the Speedball, it does become more aggressive and powerful. I wouldn't say there is a ultra huge difference though. It really depends on the song's characteristic and mixing. Some songs you can definitely hear a night and day difference between Crack and Speedball but others are more subtle. Crack gives you clarity and separation for all instruments, gives your cans more power, and delivers vocals as if you're listening to them in the studio. Speedball does the same thing x2, with added warmth on vocals, better instrument separation, clarity, and power. I just bought some pretty good tubes which is on the way so I'm looking forward to seeing how they sound after I replace the stock tubes. 

 
What about the actual build process?  I see a lot of people talking about the basic crack build, but not the speedball upgrade.

 

[Tuneslover]

Thanks for your thoughtful response. I've thought about the HE-500s (and they are clearance priced, right now). However, I keep reading that they really need a carefully matched amp and I'm not sure an OTL amp is the ideal pairing.

I need to read-up and ponder, but will take you up on your PM offer for amp considerations.

As you can see from my avatar/picture, I have found the 2 cans that provide me with the spectrum of headphone sound that I like. By the way, I use the Lake People G109S (SS) and Bifrost on my main rig and the original Modi&Magni on my computer setup. Both the HE500 and HD650's sound terrific on both systems

 

[Thebb]

   
Congratulations the Crack is a lot of fun and a great introduction to what is possible with diy audio the build manual is very good and easy to follow. There are a several well documented  upgrade options that can take the stock Crack to a totally different  level. for less than a fancy HD650 aftermarket cable. The new owner of the hot rodded Crack in the pic prefers it to his Meier Corda Classic finding the Crack to have a more natural and realistic sound.
 

 
Yeah, I've seen these great builds with the modded caps and attenuators.  I'm thinking of incluidng the stepped attenuators in the base build as I've heard it can be a pain to add it in afterwards.  I'll see how the base build goes, then will probably do speedball and the caps after that.  But will take it slow.

 

[Xeculus]

You really should at least consider trying the Senn amp.

Sounds llike a plan

How would you say the Senn amp is, paired with other headphones? The $2k cost is the limit of my budget and there's a lot of other options at that price range.

 

[donlin]

I actually bought that amp because it sounded so good with my LCD-3's. It was the best of several amps I had during my Audeze phase.  I later got 650's just because I thought it would be fun to try some senn phones with the senn amp and was blown away at how good the 650's sounded.  So, all I can say for sure is that it worked very well with Audeze phones with plenty of power to drive the planars, but that's the only other brand I have tried.  In general terms it's extremely well built and seems to be well worth the price, very quiet, not "solid state" sounding and has balanced and unbalanced ins/outs.  The unbalanced inputs have a gain switch on the back to use with very sensitive phones such as IEM's.
 
Some amps that I owned which the Sennheiser beat with Audeze phones:
 
Bryston
Schitt Mjolnir
Cary Nighthawk
Icon HP8 MkII
Fosgate Signature
Graham Slee Ultralinear Diamond

 

[donlin]

Sounds llike a plan

How would you say the Senn amp is, paired with other headphones? The $2k cost is the limit of my budget and there's a lot of other options at that price range.

I should say that I have the HDVA 600 which is the amp only.  I have no experience with the DAC section of the HDVD 800.

 

[Lorspeaker]

I have no experience with soldering so a bottle head Crack is out of the question, but are their other good options in the $200-$300 range?

 
massdrop recently did a Darkvoice 336se for about 220bucks..
wait for the next drop. 

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

Sounds llike a plan

How would you say the Senn amp is, paired with other headphones? The $2k cost is the limit of my budget and there's a lot of other options at that price range.

 
The 2 amp I'm currently considering in the same price range are the Woo WA22 and the DNA Sonnet 2.  I'm sure I'll be considering others, but these make the HD650 sing...
 
2015 can't get here fast enough for me.....lol