[Oskari]

  As for the codes, the tubes are definitely legit with the acid codes on the glass. So, with all due respect to my tube brothers here who are confident in their extensive tube code knowledge... you've got to be wrong. The codes are what they are. Still waiting for a legitimate explanation....

 
Start posting photos. Good photos. And please don't use D (Hamburg) for delta (Heerlen). It's too confusing.

 

[lekoross]

Ha! Didn't know D=Hamburg! Sorry chums! 

 
Unfortunately I can't post photos because the code is only visible under 10x magnification, although under that magnification it is completely clear. The codes I posted are indeed the ones on the tubes, and the '1' is certainly a '1' and not an etched off '4'. 
 
The only explanation I can think of is the the 7L8 Delta 2 = 1962, and the 7L9 Delta 1 = 1971.
 
Do you think this is this a plausible explanation and possibility?

 

[gibosi]

  Ha! Didn't know D=Hamburg! Sorry chums! 

 
Unfortunately I can't post photos because the code is only visible under 10x magnification, although under that magnification it is completely clear. The codes I posted are indeed the ones on the tubes, and the '1' is certainly a '1' and not an etched off '4'. 
 
The only explanation I can think of is the the 7L8 Delta 2 = 1962, and the 7L9 Delta 1 = 1971.
 
Do you think this is this a plausible explanation and possibility?

 
The die used to do the etching may have been somewhat worn out or perhaps the die didn't make good contact with the glass. Incomplete digits due to such mechanical defects are not uncommon. Again, in the Philips tube numbering system, change codes are incremented in chronological order. And at the Heerlen factory, this numbering system was scrupulously followed. There is absolutely no way that 7L9  ⊿1 could be 1971. By 1971, it would have been 7LG ⊿1.

 

[lekoross]

Interesting. Ok then!
 
 
Cheers!
 

 

 

[Oskari]

  The die used to do the etching may have been somewhat worn out or perhaps the die didn't make good contact with the glass.

 
Yup.

 

[gibosi]

  Interesting. Ok then!
 
 
Cheers!
 

 

 
What is most interesting is you scored some very nice tubes! 1959, 1960, 1962 and 1964!
 
My oldest E88CC is 1961, so I am curious... I assume the 1959 tube has a D getter, but I wonder if it has a pinched waist? Is there a pinched waist version of the E88CC?

 

[billerb1]

   
That it is an incomplete digit 4 for 1964. The 7L8 is from 1962.

 
There it is.  Oskari to the rescue.  Again.
Nice !

 

[lekoross]

 

  Interesting. Ok then!
 
 
Cheers!
 

 

 
What is most interesting is you scored some very nice tubes! 1959, 1960, 1962 and 1964!
 
My oldest E88CC is 1961, so I am curious... I assume the 1959 tube has a D getter, but I wonder if it has a pinched waist? Is there a pinched waist version of the E88CC?

 
Nope, no D getter. All halo getters. Not pinched waist either. Red Label Valvo e88cc's. Just sold a pair of 1957 Amperex PQ Holland pinched waist D getters for $350. Surprised someone paid that much but they did!  Cha-Ching!!! 

 

[billerb1]

   
What is most interesting is you scored some very nice tubes! 1959, 1960, 1962 and 1964!
 
My oldest E88CC is 1961, so I am curious... I assume the 1959 tube has a D getter, but I wonder if it has a pinched waist? Is there a pinched waist version of the E88CC?

 
Yes, I have pair of  Heerlen Valvo E88CC CCa Pinched Waists from 1956 which I think was the first year of pinched waist production.
7L1 delta6K.  Just an incredible pair of tubes.  Best I have ever heard.

 

[lekoross]

Nice!!! I didn't feel my Amperex sounded any better than my other Herleens, however I have three pair of Valvo CCa's coming in. None are pinched waist, but two pair are White Label and the other is Yellow Label. These are not from the same guy I suspected of being a counterfeiter but are the real things for sure. Looking forward to hearing them. 

 

[gibosi]

 

 
I have been under the impression that Heerlen didn't open until 1958 and I had wondered if the very early E88CC were manufactured at one of the other Philips factories. If true, this would help to explain some of the sonic differences with later Heerlen production. But sure enough, your tube was manufactured by the Heerlen factory in 1956!  I learn something new every day!

 

[mikoss]

I want to hear an Eindhoven tube. Want to hear how it compares to Heerlen. Billllll?
 
Also, why were the first E88CC's made there, and then moved? Anyone know?

 

[billerb1]

  I want to hear an Eindhoven tube. Want to hear how it compares to Heerlen. Billllll?
 
Also, why were the first E88CC's made there, and then moved? Anyone know?

 
The first pair of Pinched Waists I fluked into was a mixed pair from 1956, one, as Mike referenced, from the Holland Eindhoven factory with the code
7L0 (zero)  6(representing Eindhoven)6K between the pins, like the above-pictured Valvo E88CC CCa and the other being from Heerlen, having only
the code delta6K on the side glass like we're used to seeing.  No version code.
Here is a bit of info on these tubes that I've found...this one from Audio Asylum:
 
The Heerlen, Holland Philips manufactured E88CC tubes commenced at 7L0 in 1956, followed by revisions 7L1, 7L2, 7L3, 7L4 and 7L5 up to 1960. The 7L0 to 7L3 were all pinched waist d-getter tubes with the 7L0 and 7L1 versions using gold-plated wiring internally, which changed to silver-plating for the 7L2 revision and onwards. The 7L4 to 7L5 were straight bottle d-getter tubes.
 
I don't remember where I found this info but the last paragraph has some great insight into the early 7L codes and pinched waist production:
 
I have 2 preamps that use E88CC tubes, the Juicy Music Peach 2 in my main rig and a modified Vacuum Soundstage 2 in my system at work. It never ceases to amaze me how a specific tube will sound stellar in one while lack something in the other. I, like yourself have tried many of the numerous tubes from this family. At one time after I had bought the Peach back in 2008 I went about acquiring tubes to roll. Over about 8 months I bagged some nice used tubes as is my habit and then find out what I like and then stock up on it. These pairs were as follows:

Siemens E188CC halo getter
Siemens E188CC A frame getter
Siemens CCA halo getter
Valvo (made in germany) E188CC halo getter
Amperex-Heerlen E188CC VR0 D getter
Amperex-Heerlen E188CC VR1 D getter
Amperex-Heerlen E88CC 7L3 Pinched Waist D getter
Amperex-Heerlen E88CC 7L3 Straight Bottle D getter - extremely rare tube
Amperex-Heerlen E88CC 7L4 Straight Bottle D getter
Amperex-USA 7308 VR5 USN-CEP halo getter
Amperex-USA 6922 7L6 USN-CEP halo getter same as white label PQ
Amperex-USA 6922 7L8 green label halo getter
Amperex-Heerlen 6DJ8 GA2 Bugle Boy D getter
Amperex-Heerlen PCC-88 DJ2 7DJ8 Pinched Waist D getter
Phillips-Heerlen E188CC VR3 halo getter
Telefunken E88CC halo getter



I thoroughly listened to all of these in both preamps over a period of months and I came to these conclusions. Without getting too long winded :

1 : All the German tubes regardless of label were a little too cold and analytical for my taste. They certainly were great tubes that brought different things to the table you could kind of paint them with the same brush.

2 : In the Peach (which is a much more resolving component) the 7L3 and 7L4 tubes shined the brighest. They have the right mix of detail, dynamics,voicing and bottom end. Incredibly to me the VR0 and VR1 tubes sounded just the slightest bit veiled. The 7L6 and 7L8 tubes while being more dynamic than the German tubes leaned too far in that direction. The GA2 6DJ8's sounded a lot like the 7L4 E88CC's just not quite as refined. The DJ2 7DJ8's sounded a little veiled while having a little too fat and wooly bottom end. All the E188CC's sounded just the slightest bit thin when compared to the 7L3 and 7L4 tubes.

3 : In the Soundstage all the above observations pretty much were the same except here the 7L3 and 7L4 tubes sounded just the slightest bit soft and the Heerlen E188CC and the Hicksville 7308 tubes winning here. The E188CC are a smidge more dynamic while the 7308's have the slightest amount more detail.

After narrowing the finalists for the Peach I settled on the 7L3 and 7L4 straight bottles over the 7L3 Pinched Waist tubes. There is not enough difference in my rig to justify the cost of the PW tubes over that of the straight bottle D getters. Mind you the PW have a very slightly more refined sound and a little more bottom end, but not enough when balanced against cost. That being said there are 2 tubes that I would love to try if I can ever find and afford them: 1st is the 1st or 2nd revision Amperex PW marked 7L0 OR 7L1 with the 45 degree inclined D getter and made in Eindhoven as signified by a 6 where Heerlen uses the delta symbol. These are supposed to be just incredible tubes but are EXTREMELY rare and are $800.00 - $1200.00/pair when available. I have talked to people who have or have had these and they all claim a huge difference as opposed to the later 7L2 and 7L3 PW tubes due to different internal use of more precious metals in the construction. The other is the earliest Siemens E88CC, that being the one with the 45 degree inclined D getter. It supposedly has all the detail that German tubes are known for while being more Dynamic and not as sterile, $600.00 - $800.00 when you can find them. 
 
And finally here is Brent Jesse's take on the Holland made Valvo E88CC CCa Pinched Waists that I pictured earlier:
 
CCa's:
 
Whew, these babies are so scarce there isn't even much info out there about them! Mentioned by audiophiles, usually in a reverent whisper, these gold pinned gems are about as good is it gets in 6DJ8-land. Matched triode sections, low noise screening, 10,000 hr. heater life expectancy, carefully controlled frame grid winding, low microphonics......the list goes on and on. This is regarded as one of the most detailed and three-dimensional sounding tube ever made in this family of tubes. Most of what is available is Siemens or Telefunken made, although there are a few very rare examples of Philips or Amperex Holland made out there. Since this was a tube made specifically for the German goverment and military, all that I have seen carry a German brand label, even those made in Holland. Even rarer are the Holland made Cca tubes with the pinched waist indented glass midsections, said to be the most sonically "3D" tube ever made, of any type. Finding these is akin to finding a 1795 gold piece in your attic! I don't believe there were any of these Cca tubes made in the USA. Awesome audiophile tubes! Yes, they are costly, but like most top flight NOS audio tubes, you get what you pay for. These Cca tubes will give you more improvement in sound than upgrades like expensive speaker cables that can cost 5 times as much as a pair of Cca tubes!
 
Personally I prefer my Valvo CCa Pinched Waist pair over the mixed Eindhoven/Heerlen pair.  Just a bit more pulsating live presence and texture.  Both are incredibly rich tonally which is the pinched waist's calling card.

 

[mikoss]

Wonderful post Bill. Superb info.
 
I want to force the Siemens CCa's into your amp one day, as they're incredibly musical sounding German tubes. We can do a Folgers "secret replacement" and see if you notice. I will put them on a diet to slim them down before I swap them in

 

[billerb1]

  Wonderful post Bill. Superb info.
 
I want to force the Siemens CCa's into your amp one day, as they're incredibly musical sounding German tubes. We can do a Folgers "secret replacement" and see if you notice. I will put them on a diet to slim them down before I swap them in

 
I'd figure the PW's for the fat boys but I'd really like to hear the 'real' Siemens early 60's CCa's...I've only heard the 70's A-frames and I know those aren't the real deal.  I'd love to hear your Tele CCa's and/or your Tele E188CC's.  I'll bet those Tele's would be a marriage made in heaven with my new GEC 6AS7G's power tubes.  Would be so delicately pure and musical.  So many tubes, so little time (and $ hahaha)