[IEMCrazy]

With the stock GE's I seem to find a significant number of tubes that develop an intermittent high-pitched whine.  On one pair it was very frequent, almost constant. I changed out the bad one of the pair, and it was good at first, but then started in on the replacement too.  It's intermittent with a high frequency whine for a few moments, then goes away, then comes back for a few moments, then goes away.  It seems to entirely go away after 1-1.5hours of warmup.
 
I noticed yesterday that one of the tubes on my SECOND Lyr started doing the same thing.   So that's three individual tubes doing that from my reserves of the BZ07's, plus the Japanese BZ07's before that that were just horribly, horribly microphonic and also screeched periodically.  The whining is present both in high impedance (HD650) and low-impedance (HE-400, K702) headphones.
 
So my question for the entry into tube rolling is this: Is that a known issue among BZ07 and other tubes, and are there recommendations for tubes that are likely to avoid that type of issue?
 
Getting rid of that kind of noise is my prime concern, but if the headphones in play matter for the recommendation, I'd be using mostly HD650, HE-400, and some K702.  I have D5k, but I use that on the SS amp instead.
 

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

With the stock GE's I seem to find a significant number of tubes that develop an intermittent high-pitched whine.  On one pair it was very frequent, almost constant. I changed out the bad one of the pair, and it was good at first, but then started in on the replacement too.  It's intermittent with a high frequency whine for a few moments, then goes away, then comes back for a few moments, then goes away.  It seems to entirely go away after 1-1.5hours of warmup.

I noticed yesterday that one of the tubes on my SECOND Lyr started doing the same thing.   So that's three individual tubes doing that from my reserves of the BZ07's, plus the Japanese BZ07's before that that were just horribly, horribly microphonic and also screeched periodically.  The whining is present both in high impedance (HD650) and low-impedance (HE-400, K702) headphones.

So my question for the entry into tube rolling is this: Is that a known issue among BZ07 and other tubes, and are there recommendations for tubes that are likely to avoid that type of issue?

Getting rid of that kind of noise is my prime concern, but if the headphones in play matter for the recommendation, I'd be using mostly HD650, HE-400, and some K702.  I have D5k, but I use that on the SS amp instead.

 

Have you tried burning the tubes in. Alot times when I get new tubes(mainly nos) there is a bit a weirdness going on in the background,pops,clicks, and squeals. Most of that goes away with an extended burn in. I am not familiar with the bz07 however

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

Have you tried burning the tubes in. Alot times when I get new tubes(mainly nos) there is a bit a weirdness going on in the background,pops,clicks, and squeals. Most of that goes away with an extended burn in. I am not familiar with the bz07 however

 
6BZ7 rather

  I had a momentary confusion with some other model number entirely unrelated to audio

  I mean the stock GE's from Schiit.
 
In terms of burn-in, I presume you mean just general extended use?  I often leave them on for many hours at a time, especially on weekends where I'll turn it on in the morning and leave it on until the end of the night.  That should be plenty of burn-in.
 
Pops, clicks, etc only happen before warmup in these cases (which I usually warm up for an hour or so), but the squeals seem to intermittantly come and go.  On one of the bad three, it goes away after 1-2 hours.  On two of the bad three, it doesn't matter how long it warms up it still fades in and out periodically.
 
I wonder how many hours of burn-in would be required if you're right?

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

6BZ7 rather   I had a momentary confusion with some other model number entirely unrelated to audio   I mean the stock GE's from Schiit.

In terms of burn-in, I presume you mean just general extended use?  I often leave them on for many hours at a time, especially on weekends where I'll turn it on in the morning and leave it on until the end of the night.  That should be plenty of burn-in.

Let me guess, a coffee maker..... thats all that came up when I did a google search for the tubes

Let it run for a day or more with music playing and if that doesnt work I would contact schiit about exchanging your tubes

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

Let me guess, a coffee maker..... thats all that came up when I did a google search for the tubes
Let it run for a day or more with music playing and if that doesnt work I would contact schiit about exchanging your tubes

 
I'll try it with extended music, but I'm doubtful.   I've been through quite a few tubes.   My first two Lyrs came with the nasty micrphonic Japanese version.  Schiit exchanged those out for me after they started going bad early on.  I bought 6 pairs of backup GEs (I actually like the sound of them).  Of those, I installed 4 (2 in each Lyr), I swapped one out due to the almost constant screech.  Now one in each is having the intermittent screech.  I could swap those, and I may, but still, it seems like either something with those tube models specifically, or something common to all tubes that I just happen to be sensitive to.  And before you ask, yes its tubes since swapping which tube is where swaps the channel the screech is in

 
Thus why I wanted to check with tube rollers to see if it's a known thing with those and if others are known to be more silent or not. I'll have to give your idea a try though.  Other than tube rolling, it seems like the only option to try.

 

[Striation]

IEMCrazy.
When I hear someone say high frequency whine I immediately think electrical interference.  Might be dirty power, bad shielding or someone's power equipment coming down the line.  I have never experienced any whines with my Lyr or associated tubes.
 
Good Luck,
Stri

 

[MrScary]

Quote:

 
I'll try it with extended music, but I'm doubtful.   I've been through quite a few tubes.   My first two Lyrs came with the nasty micrphonic Japanese version.  Schiit exchanged those out for me after they started going bad early on.  I bought 6 pairs of backup GEs (I actually like the sound of them).  Of those, I installed 4 (2 in each Lyr), I swapped one out due to the almost constant screech.  Now one in each is having the intermittent screech.  I could swap those, and I may, but still, it seems like either something with those tube models specifically, or something common to all tubes that I just happen to be sensitive to.  And before you ask, yes its tubes since swapping which tube is where swaps the channel the screech is in

 
Thus why I wanted to check with tube rollers to see if it's a known thing with those and if others are known to be more silent or not. I'll have to give your idea a try though.  Other than tube rolling, it seems like the only option to try.

Im usually the nicest guy in the world so I will continue to be and help you do yourself a favor take those things I mean the GE's open your front door and see if you can hit a passing car...
If you want the quality of sound that the Lyr and your HD650's are capable of producing you are going to have to spend some monies.. As many times as I put those GE's in it last's less than a song no matter what phones I use..
By being perfectly honest this is the only way I can help you... ôô

 

[MrScary]

Quote:

After burned in my NOS Amperex Bugleboy rare large halo getter (made in Holland) which I ordered from audiotubes.com for more than 100 hours, the tubes open up and sounds better than before. Compared to GE 6BZ7, it has wider soundstage, more depth, extended bass and extended treble (without iritating hissing), very smooth SQ, bass is more punchy and solid and richer mid. Overall, the SQ is much more enjoyable than 6BZ7. With the Amperex, I don't have to turn the volume as loud as when using 6BZ7. With the 6BZ7 because the mid are slightly recess, I have to crank up the volume to 11 o'clock to hear more mid, which is not good (loud volume) for the ear in the long term. With the Amperex, the SQ already sound good when I turn on Lyr. Thus, I don't have to wait for Lyr to fully warm up. Meaning that there is less waste of tubes life waiting for amp to warm up. These tubes definitely have taken my listening pleasure to a higher level. For now, I am gonna stick with these tubes. My next upgrade will be the headphone cable for my HD650 which I have decided on Toxic Cables.

You are correct I have many Amperex tubes the large O getters are usually easy to obtain at good prices but the GE's are not even in the same league for comparison Im just glad you got some  descent tubes.. Now open up your door and see if you can hit a car with those things the GE's hahaha

 

[MrScary]

Quote:

IEMCrazy.
When I hear someone say high frequency whine I immediately think electrical interference.  Might be dirty power, bad shielding or someone's power equipment coming down the line.  I have never experienced any whines with my Lyr or associated tubes.
 
Good Luck,
Stri

 
hahah give it time my friend. Lets see what have I heard Pop's, hisses that sound inhuman. weird scream time thing's. whines like a kitten being mutilated
Now on the large tubes like in some of my Gutiar Amps the EL34's and 6L6's that burn like hells fire they run so hot with so much current going through them I have had smoke weird blue flames flying around the bad thing about Guitar amps is they do not self Bias accept a couple you have to
take it apart and be very very carefull cause if you touch the wrong spot ummm ... You die... It sucks Biasing large tubes I have gotten use to it but it still scares the crap out of me..

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

IEMCrazy.
When I hear someone say high frequency whine I immediately think electrical interference.  Might be dirty power, bad shielding or someone's power equipment coming down the line.  I have never experienced any whines with my Lyr or associated tubes.
 
Good Luck,
Stri

 
I see where you're going, but not in this case.  I've heard power line issues and interference issues.  This is a tube issue.  And the tube issue can be demonstrated by moving the channel the sound is in by switching tubes.  And different individual tubes seem to have the issue in different intervals, or behave better than others. 
 
Also the O2 SS amp I have on the same circuit does not experience the problem, and that thing's cheapie power supply is far more susceptible to line interference than Lyrs, not that Lyr hasn't picked up ugliness from time to time. 
 
Quote:

Im usually the nicest guy in the world so I will continue to be and help you do yourself a favor take those things I mean the GE's open your front door and see if you can hit a passing car...
If you want the quality of sound that the Lyr and your HD650's are capable of producing you are going to have to spend some monies.. As many times as I put those GE's in it last's less than a song no matter what phones I use..
By being perfectly honest this is the only way I can help you... ôô

 
LOL

  I don't doubt that different tubes sound much better, though for $10 a piece I really don't mind the GE's.  Heck they sound better for 650 and HE-400 than my near-dead-flat SS amp does.  I don't mind going into upgrades though, so long as I'm not likely to buy a pricy tube that will end up with the same whining issue

  That's why I'm here!
 
Improved SQ is always good.  But whines, crackles, etc are utterly destructive to music enjoyment, so that's the first thing that must go.  If I can improve SQ in the mean-time, why not?
 
So guide me, to the light, oh car destroyer, with some tube recommendations for improved SQ that will be fairly unlikely to squeal, screech, crackle, or get crazy microphonic like the Japanese GE's did (tapping my HP cable anywhere would send a gong-like ring through the tubes on those things by the end after a mere 300 hours.)
 
If you need some musical info for recommendations: I'd be driving HD650 w/ Silver Dragon cable, HE-400 (maybe with Blue, maybe Black Dragon, maybe stock Canare, haven't decided yet.), K702 (possibly with Black Dragon, haven't decided yet.)  Probably not the Denon D5k, too sensitive, I have the O2 just for them.   Maybe someday LCD2 or HD800 if I have a moment of weakness, but I'm hoping that I don't feel the need to go that far at present insane pricing.  Even with lousy GE's the silver cabled HD650 sounds amazing (though at present price, they'd better, considering that combo costs almost as much as LCD-2

)
 
I listen to a bit of everything, classical, opera, jazz, world, bluegrass, salsa & latin jazz.  Very little in terms of rock/pop, but some.  And anything chill/downtempo/electronica can be omitted since that's for the Denons, and those are on the O2. 
 
Something with reduced gain would almost not hurt, and something with increased gain would absolutely hurt, I get very little use of the volume dial with the Squeezebox on "fixed 100% volume."  Dropping the volume on it means digital gain adjustment, which is bad, though it works in 24-bit space, so in reality I should have 12db to play with or so before digital gain has any SQ effect. I do have to drop digital gain for the Denons. 
 
I don't want to spend a fortune on top-tier tubes, Bugle Boys and the like, no need with this setup, and I don't like the idea of investing too much in a tube since, stuff happens....they can go unpredictably bad, something can break them, whatever.   I have no preference for NOS or production, but I realize the lower quality overall of the majority of new production.  I haven't involved myself in tube rolling prior, so, perhaps you have a slide-o-matic chart or something to help

 
Still, quality aside, I really don't think the GE SQ is all that bad, in fact I think it's quite good compared to SS amps.  Perhaps not compared to high tier tubes, but compared to non-tubes, it's great. It's the build and the endless "whining" sounds that I seem to get no matter how many tubes I discard.  I consider a pair of GE's costing at least $60 since you need 3 sets to find two clean tubes

 

Edit: I've previously seen Bugle Boy at over $300 a pair. I just saw them listed somewhere for a lot less than that, so my "top tier" reference could possibly be misguided.  I'm not sure the going rates on most tubes.

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

Iemcrazy you are right about the sound quality of new produced tubes but I can say if quiet is your priority you might look into some. All the newly made tubes I have are dead silent right from the start, and they are relatively inexpensive like >$50 a pair

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

Iemcrazy you are right about the sound quality of new produced tubes but I can say if quiet is your priority you might look into some. All the newly made tubes I have are dead silent right from the start, and they are relatively inexpensive like >$50 a pair

 
It's a definite possibility, though Tube Depot will do noise testing/matching, so that may even things out for anything they have in stock.  I just noticed that. 
 
Does anyone have experience with Black Sable?  They have the advantage of being new production JJ, but seem to be a premium design intended to mimic NOS sound.  Could be an option.  There's so many options out there, new and old, it definitely gets overwhelming when diving into it!

 

[paradoxper]

what is Black Sable?

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

what is Black Sable?

 
I take it back.  I thought it was a premium line from JJ, apparently it's just a special cryo treatment process by a particular tube vendor.  So much for that idea!
 
Though what it does seem to do is guarantee arduous testing for noise floor and matching, as well as pre-burn-in, so it's still an interesting line.  But I doubt it's specifically much better than any tube that's been burned in, tested, and matched.
 
Back do the drawing board, and I'm open to suggestions!

 

[Rope]

Microphonic tubes have a special place in audio reproduction, trash can, or as the Scary One so eliquently put it, drive by tossing through the front door.