[HK_sends]

Hey everybody,
 
I got my Triode Flippers in from TubeMonger yesterday and I wanted to post a few observations.  First, the good news: nothing exploded, shorted, or otherwise broke.  The tubes sounded just fine with no perceived change to the sound.  Neither the Socket Savers (SS's) nor the Triode Flippers (TF's) has affected the sound of the tubes (to me, at least).
 
Now, the (not really) bad news...I really have no way of telling if these are doing what they are supposed to do.

  I don't doubt Tubemonger's word, I just have no way to test them. 
 
There is a difference between the SS's and TF's...the contacts (but not the pins) in the SS's are gold plated and the TF's are not.  It was a bit of a struggle getting the tubes inserted into the sockets the first time (now, don't go there...

), but other than that they seemed to work just fine.
 
Just thought you'd like to know...
 
Cheers!

-HK sends

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

Are they the same height?

 

[HK_sends]

Quote:

Are they the same height?

They are identical except for the labels and socket contacts...
 
-HK sends
 
 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Ok, so I went full circle and got the DT990/600 again. However, when I owned the Lyr, I didn't have any Beyers (just HE4 and D7000 at the time).

Does anyone know which Schiit supplied tubes don't add to bass or treble? I'd like to keep the bass where it's at, no more, no less if possible, but definitely a slight reduction in treble. I distinctly remember the 6N1P probably being my best bet.

I don't have the Lyr yet, but it's what I'm leaning towards grabs my attention.

What's the diferrence between the 6N1P and 6BZ7? At the time of owning the Lyr, I had the stock tubes and ordered the 6N1P, which definitely sounded better.

 

[adydula]

The 6N1P has a gain of 35 +/- 7. This is from 28 to 42. The avg being 35.
The 6BZ7 has an amplification factor of 36. Some Russian tube specs state 35 +/- 8 for gain.
Both have serial heaters.
 
I have several sets of both.
 
To me with a pair of Audeze LCD2's the 6N1P's I have from Schiit. matched on a curver tracer vs a tube tester they sound the best overall vs EH6922's and GE 6BZ7's.
 
The one major difference is the 3 dimensional sound with them...the tonal accuracy seems very similar. but time after time of swaps, my ear hears a very descernable difference with the openess, imaging, and with live concert type type of recordings this is really very noticeable. The 6BZ7 is very nice musically but the 6N1P makes you hear like your there in the room....uncanny for a set of very inexpensive tubes....
 
You can get a pair of each for $20 for the 6N1P's and $40 for a pair of 6BZ7's...a very inexpensive deal here, and try both with material you like and see what you like or can discern as real differences...
 
 
Basic data: For 6N1P

1. Uf = 6.3 V, If = 600 mA (heater current)
2. Plate Voltage = 250
3. uM = 35
4. Ia = 7.5 mA
5. S = 4.35 mA/V
6. Pa = 2.2 W

 
From earlier posts...
6BZ7
Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V
Heater Current ................................ 0.4 A
Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V
Plate Dissipation ............................. 2 W
 
E88CC/6922
Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V
Heater Current ................................ 0.3 A
Plate Voltage ................................. 220 V
Plate Dissipation ............................. 1.5 W

 

[MrScary]

The 6N1P has a gain of 35 +/- 7. This is from 28 to 42. The avg being 35.
The 6BZ7 has an amplification factor of 36. Some Russian tube specs state 35 +/- 8 for gain.
Both have serial heaters.

I have several sets of both.

To me with a pair of Audeze LCD2's the 6N1P's I have from Schiit. matched on a curver tracer vs a tube tester they sound the best overall vs EH6922's and GE 6BZ7's.

The one major difference is the 3 dimensional sound with them...the tonal accuracy seems very similar. but time after time of swaps, my ear hears a very descernable difference with the openess, imaging, and with live concert type type of recordings this is really very noticeable. The 6BZ7 is very nice musically but the 6N1P makes you hear like your there in the room....uncanny for a set of very inexpensive tubes....

You can get a pair of each for $20 for the 6N1P's and $40 for a pair of 6BZ7's...a very inexpensive deal here, and try both with material you like and see what you like or can discern as real differences...


Basic data: For 6N1P

• Uf = 6.3 V, If = 600 mA (heater current)
• Plate Voltage = 250
• uM = 35
• Ia = 7.5 mA
• S = 4.35 mA/V
• Pa = 2.2 W

From earlier posts...
6BZ7


Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V

Heater Current ................................ 0.4 A


Plate Voltage ................................. 250 V

Plate Dissipation ............................. 2 W


 


E88CC/6922


Heater Voltage ................................ 6.3 V

Heater Current ................................ 0.3 A


Plate Voltage ................................. 220 V

Plate Dissipation ............................. 1.5 W

I think its great that you broke down the electrical qualities of the tubes i.e. the 6N1p's and the GE 6BZ7's. But what I see is one problem the 6N1p's are not really known to have a wide openness or good imaging I mean they are cheap old Russian tube's if you are talking about the ones that Schiit has.. Now if you go back and get some of the vintage 60's and even early 70's 6N1p's there is a huge difference in sound quality. But that is far as it goes..
When I was tube rolling on here and doing direct comparison's the Schiit stock 6N1p's are at the bottom of the barrel in regards to any imaging or having a open sound quality... The one thing I will add that everyone forgets is that we all have different audio chain's and that's why it is so hard to come to a consensus on any one particular tube... adding a silver interconnect between your Dac and amp can make a change so then you may need to compensate with a tube change... So the bottom line is: If one wants to find a particular sound they will probably have to roll a few sets of tubes.. You can go on guidelines but that's as far as it goes.. When I ranked tubes on this thread they were based upon several different criteria. Imaging, bass, treble response wide vs shallow sounding.. As much as one wants to believe that a 20.00 tube will fit your bill I have found that with a few exceptions in the 6BZ7 line you will need to spend at least 100.00 to get a quality tube... example the Lorenz PC88'ss were a great epiphany sadly they were around only for a limited time and are impossible to find.. The Vintage tubes were made in an era where the tube technology had to be of the utmost quality as everything ran on tubes at that time radar systems, televisions, radios on and on... The secrets behind the the building of those tubes died with the men that made them so we are now in an era of copies etc.. This is especially true in the Audiophile world... Now in the Guitar Amp World its in a way the same they have comes to a consensus of what tubes sound best based upon the circuitry of said amp so you usually only have to wade through 2 or 3 sets of tubes... IN the Audiophile world their are way more variables which brings me back to my point.. The best anyone can do is give a guideline based upon their equipment and what sound they are getting.. that sound will change for every headphone, every Dac that you change your source etc... So that's the reason some of us spent like me over 2500.00 to tube roll was to find that perfect quality with ones equipment..


Godspeed and good luck on finding the tube that sounds good for your setup.

 

[adydula]

Hello....
 
Boy so many thoughts....I grew up in the tube era, and even worked for GE, was and still am an Extra Class Amateur Radio Operator, have a degree in Electrical Engineering...and drew so many tube load lines and graphs, built tube amps from scratch, transmitter, and even was a Radar Technican...so when I read things like:
 
"The Vintage tubes were made in an era where the tube technology had to be of the utmost quality as everything ran on tubes at that time radar systems, televisions, radios on and on... The secrets behind the the building of those tubes died with the men that made them so we are now in an era of copies etc.. This is especially true in the Audiophile world..."
 
I smile and laugh and reminisce...
 
Variables...yes there are many....so, so many.....however I really dont think that many of the variables really make all that difference to most people...only a few real audiophile 'nuts' like us.
 
I had three sets of speaker cables home, all the mega-buck $2000 type and was A/B'ing them over and over and over...and thinking I could tell the difference etc...but when doing blind testing well..not so certain..(smile).
 
The 6N1P's from Schiit are really decent....and yes they may not be in the same league to your ears ...but to say a tube is better because its old and cost more or some combination, well I just cant buy that to the degree that it really is that much better etc...
 
Just because a tube is used in a radar doesnt mean it has secrets that tubes being made today dont have.....I had 21 tubes in my transceiver that ran 24/7 for weeks on end...it was hot, drifted all over the place. The mil spec tubes still had to be the same electrically spec's....they had to amplify in the same linear ranges dependent of plate voltage etc....where they really differed was in the mechanical construction in the mica wafers, being thicker, to support the tube elements in their little vacuum world....more ruggedized for vibrations, less microphonics etc..when in a radio on the back of a jeep or tank running around in the woods!!! ...electrically they were/are the same. Some had metal or metallic covers/canisters for shielding, RFI Interferences both from inside and out. Some were picked out for lower noise characteristics for applications that specifically were sensitive in this area.....
 
Gosh I replaced hundred of these 'so-called' miracle tubes back then....
 
This magic from days past is a real myth....it makes for great stories...and the folks selling these tubes are making a great sum of money ....oh boy...Tubes today are copies of tubes from the old days...they are still tubes...put them on a curve tracer and see if they match the NOS originals....tubes made in the 30's and 40s' compare to those made in the 50's etc...which are really NOS or copies etc...
 
Lets get together at someones place, with all our tubes and lets let a person swap tubes out. Take a NOS tube set and a new el crapo tube set and let someone swap the sets out for 10 times and pick out the ones that sound better to you...keep track and see if you really are hearing what your hearing...
 
Please dont take this the wrong way....I hear differences in tube sounds....but they are not 'that' big of a difference...yes I prefer the 6N1Ps....but would like to see a Lorenz plot on a curve tracer vs the $20 Schiit el crapo 6N1Ps to see the 'electrical' diffrences if there are any...then we can chat.
 
So who live on the east coast of the USA so we can get together to do some real A/B testing with controls.....should be fun and interesting!!
 
All the best
Alex
 
 
 
 
 

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

My newly made tubes I own (jj's,ev6922,6n23p) all sound boxy to me the nos tubes(s&h/valvo cca, Lorenz) I have, have a large and wide soundstage. I suppose they have similar make ups/electronics but I swear I can hear quite a difference between the two eras. Who knows, if your near nc hit me up I would love to check out the differences from a more technical standpoint.
 
 
 
 
 
http://www.tubedepot.com/bsct-e88ccg-jj.html
 
This tube claims to be a newly made tube that sounds nos, I'm weary to try it cause I'm not a big fan of the stock jj's. Plus for 110 bucks you could get some pretty decent real nos tubes. If anyone has heard these, please post your thoughts. Thanks

 

[adydula]

Hi, dailydoseofdaly!
 
I am in nc I will PM you...
 
Alex

 

[dailydoseofdaly]

 
Quote:

Hi, dailydoseofdaly!
 
I am in nc I will PM you...
 
Alex

 
Sweet

 

[Lord Soth]

Quote:

 
 
Lets get together at someones place, with all our tubes and lets let a person swap tubes out. Take a NOS tube set and a new el crapo tube set and let someone swap the sets out for 10 times and pick out the ones that sound better to you...keep track and see if you really are hearing what your hearing...
 
Please dont take this the wrong way....I hear differences in tube sounds....but they are not 'that' big of a difference...yes I prefer the 6N1Ps....but would like to see a Lorenz plot on a curve tracer vs the $20 Schiit el crapo 6N1Ps to see the 'electrical' diffrences if there are any...then we can chat.
 
 
 
 
 

Hi,
 
I respect your opinion and experience.
 
But there really is a sonic difference between tubes. Sometimes they really do make a big difference.
 
I recently replaced a set of cryo'ed 6N1Ps with a set of Telefunkens in my tube amp which uses the ECC88 family of tubes in the preamp section. Everything else in my system was unchanged.
 
Before I carried the replacements, I was already very pleased with the sonic tube warmth provided by the 6N1Ps.
 
After the replacement, even my family members (who are average "bass heads") noticed a significant sonic difference.
For example, female vocals seemed to have more "soul" in their singing. The midrange was really fleshed out.
I even enjoyed listening to the tracks of CDs which I had previously skipped over because they did not sound "right".
Just one little change of 2 small preamp tubes was what it took to make every CD I owned sound musical and enjoyable!
 
For those who have read Joe's Tube lore about the supposed hollow mid-range of the Telefunkens, I have this piece of advice.
Please keep an open mind.
Those Telefunkens really deserve their "legendary" status. 
Tube-rolling costs $$$$ but it is worth the effort if you find something you like in the end. 

 

[WNBC]

If somebody can produce a modern tube that sounds as good as the Lorenz we'd be all over it and saving money at the same time.
 
Because the tube difference is not big to ONE person does not mean that it is not significant to another.  Let's get that out of the way now.  People in this thread who have heard the Lorenz have already said that it is one of the best they've ever heard.  The one person who has not heard it cannot say it is not significantly better until he has heard it.  And even then he may not like but that doesn't mean to other people it is not a significant improvement over the stock Schiit tubes.  
 
I don't know about $2000 speaker cables but everybody that has a pair of Lorenz chime in and let me hear whether or not you think they are worth the $80-100 premium over the Schiit provided 6N1P?
 
My guess is the majority will say yes and the cost of the Lorenz is not trivial nor is it a sum that demands loyalty to the tube.  Significantly better is a frame of mind.  I have a pair of $100 Gold Lions that are not significantly better than my $8 GE 6BZ7.  I would say the GE 6BZ7 are significantly better than my Lions.  If you blind A/B'd me I could pick out the Lions 10 out of 10 times.  We have preferences that are significant to us and it is regardless of whether the tube set is $10 or $100.  Not sure why that is so hard for people to get that.

 

[jamato8]

The cost of current product high quality tubes will not be less than the Lorenz. Also the skill and understanding of the metallurgy is both learned and and art, and many secrets have been lost. 

 

[Lord Soth]

Quote:

The cost of current product high quality tubes will not be less than the Lorenz. Also the skill and understanding of the metallurgy is both learned and and art, and many secrets have been lost. 

That's the problem with hand-made items.
 
Lorenz tubes (the real German ones) before the Lorenz SEL rubbish are now as rare as Stradivarius violins.
 

 

[WNBC]

Exactly
 
Quote:

Please keep an open mind.
Those Telefunkens really deserve their "legendary" status. 
Tube-rolling costs $$$$ but it is worth the effort if you find something you like in the end.