[franzdom]

 
I don't get what you mean.  Freya and Saga have plenty of inputs (five SE inputs on Saga and 3 SE + 2 balanced on Freya).

 
So you use one output from the DAC to the headphone amp and another to the preamp, right?
Then your phono preamp goes to the Saga and you never can listen to your vinyl through the headphones.

 

[franzdom]

Maybe I am not understanding what you were trying to say. I certainly wouldn't have a problem hooking up a Freya using one of it's outputs for headphone amp BTW.

 

[EraserXIV]

I don't get what you mean.  Freya and Saga have plenty of inputs (five SE inputs on Saga and 3 SE + 2 balanced on Freya).

But if you use the Freya or Saga in between the turntable and headphone amp, you have the double volume control issue which is what they're all concerned about.

 

[monkuboy]

 
Madness I tell you. or the other way around. set the volume control on the headphone amp to the level needed, and never touch it again and use the saga to adjust. No different than what one would do with powered monitors off a headphone amp.

 
Thanks for giving me an idea I should have thought of anyway.  I'll just connect my Valhalla 2 to one of the Saga outputs and that way I can control the volume remotely since my normal listening position isn't right next to the amp - then I don't have to get up and touch the volume knob (even though the knob on the Valhalla feels so nice and solid it invites touching)!  

 

[bigro]

   
Thanks for giving me an idea I should have thought of anyway.  I'll just connect my Valhalla 2 to one of the Saga outputs and that way I can control the volume remotely since my normal listening position isn't right next to the amp - then I don't have to get up and touch the volume knob (even though the knob on the Valhalla feels so nice and solid it invites touching)!  

 
Yep will work fine. The Double volume control is No different for those that hook up their headphone amps to powered monitors, Most of them have independent volume controls on the rear which you set and then control volume from HP amp or Mixer or pre amp. It works perfectly fine. I have done this for a while because I could not find a Tube Pre amp I liked anywhere in the price range of the Valhalla 2 but I wanted the Tube Pre stage. A Headphone amp USed as a 2 channel pre amp requires some creativity. The same goes for using two channel gear to interface with HP gear. It's not that painful, just takes some planning.

 

[Ableza]

There is no reason to be worried about chaining analog volume controls.  You just tweak one or the other or both until you get the volume level you need.  There is no problem doing this - it is completely normal and has been part of audio since the beginning.

 

[valiant66]

 

 
I think that in his next improvement of Schiit's products Jason will need to put a switch on the back to bypass volume control on their headphone amplifiers, so we can use schiit's preamplifiers to control his headphone "power amplifiers".

 
That's ass backwards from the usual way, which is to have a fixed out on the preamp.

 

 

  It used to be preamps all had tape loops and line level out. That's not seen much anymore, at least I don't think so. The variable out is needed to drive a sub.                                                                                                              

 
There was a good reason for line level out. 
 

  Or maybe a baby Vidar headphone amp for use with the Saga and Freya preamps?

 
Seems a bit redundant when they already have 7 dedicated headphone amps.
 

  Or hey, how about maybe use the Saga or Freya to drive power amplifiers intended for loudspeakers?  And, you know, use it as a preamp in a stand-alone 2-channel system?  Which is what I believe Schiit designed it for?

 
You are correct - that is my point. It seems Schiit designed Saga and Freya exclusively for speaker listeners, making no concessions for headphone users. As a company that built their reputation on headphone gear, I find that baffling.
 
Having the second pair of attenuated line outs is convenient for the few that also run sub(s) with their speakers (not withstanding that a lot of active speakers already have sub-out circuits built in). But look at it this way: it's a lot easier to get splitters to run two sets of speaker amps than it is to retrofit either preamp with a fixed line out.
 

 

  I have to agree, this baffles me too.  I've always run my headphone amps out of the fixed output tape loops on my pres and integrateds.  That way I can use my headphone amp with any source connected to my pre.  If you follow everyone's advice about splitting the output from the DAC to a headphone amp, then you are limiting the devices that you can use headphones with, meaning they would all have to be digital sources connected to the DAC.  I was so looking forward to owning a complete Schiity system, but this simple omission means it just won't work for me.  Hopefully a version 2 comes out in the future with a fixed output.

 
If the Saga uses a relay attenuator for the volume control, then why couldn't you just turn it all the way up when connecting it to a headphone amp and use the headphone amp volume control?  It doesn't sound like the preamp would introduce any alteration in the sound except whatever was caused by the tube if you chose to use that mode versus the passive mode. 

  Madness I tell you. or the other way around. set the volume control on the headphone amp to the level needed, and never touch it again and use the saga to adjust. No different than what one would do with powered monitors off a headphone amp.

 
Any time you pass the signal through unnecessary circuitry you change (degrade) the signal. Why run the signal through two sets of volume controls if you don't need to? The line out bypasses the volume control, thereby passing on a purer signal to your headphone amp, where you can control the volume independantly.
 

 

   
That doesn't work if you also have another input like a turntable...

I don't get what you mean.  Freya and Saga have plenty of inputs (five SE inputs on Saga and 3 SE + 2 balanced on Freya).

 
Yes, and that contributes to my point also.
 
The situation is this: what if you want to listen to any one of those 5 inputs on your headphones? If you have a splitter after the DAC and before the preamp going to a headphone amp, you can only listen to the DAC on headphones. If you have an output from the preamp going to the headphone amp, you can listen to any source you like on headphones.
 
Considering Schiit will sell many more headphone amps than preamps, it's baffling to me that the preamps are designed not to work with them.
 
Baffling.
 
[Edit] And that's the last I'll say on the subject.
.

 

[Jason Stoddard]

  We must Be in the Matrix, This is like Deja Vu as i feel we have already hashed this out right after the 2 Channel announcement.

This is the key problem with forums.
 
And yes, guys: we hear you. Also, overlap between headphone and 2-channel systems we have found to be relatively small. Also also, we could be wrong. Also also also, Saga is selling amazingly well, especially for a soft launch. Also also also also, nothing is going to be changed in the short term. And finally, I will not speculate on if or when anything will change.
 
If the products don't work for you in your own specific system, I understand.

 

[Ableza]

   
Why run the signal through two sets of volume controls if you don't need to?

Because 1) like I just said it doesn't matter, it's analog, and 2) because if you want to use the preamp for this purpose then you DO have to.

 

[monkuboy]

   
Yep will work fine. The Double volume control is No different for those that hook up their headphone amps to powered monitors, Most of them have independent volume controls on the rear which you set and then control volume from HP amp or Mixer or pre amp. It works perfectly fine. I have done this for a while because I could not find a Tube Pre amp I liked anywhere in the price range of the Valhalla 2 but I wanted the Tube Pre stage. A Headphone amp USed as a 2 channel pre amp requires some creativity. The same goes for using two channel gear to interface with HP gear. It's not that painful, just takes some planning.

 
I used to have the Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors whose volume I adjusted with my pre/pro, and also currently use the Airmotiv 4's for my desktop PC and just use the PC's volume control. Both situations worked just fine. I can understand the concern of possible distortion due to adding more devices to a chain but the bottom line is can you hear that distortion, which I'd say no, same as using the Saga variable outputs with a headphone amp - no audible difference there, either.

 

[bigro]

   
I used to have the Emotiva Stealth 8 monitors whose volume I adjusted with my pre/pro, and also currently use the Airmotiv 4's for my desktop PC and just use the PC's volume control. Both situations worked just fine. I can understand the concern of possible distortion due to adding more devices to a chain but the bottom line is can you hear that distortion, which I'd say no, same as using the Saga variable outputs with a headphone amp - no audible difference there, either.

 
PM sent. I am taking the Red Pill and Getting out of the Matrix

 
I am glad to hear the Saga is Selling well. I may be wrong but like me there may be people like me who want to get a Saga because it is a really nice product and priced right but the Freya offers more Possibilities to Grow your system over time. You could start off with S/E DAC's and then later on add a balanced one or You can use S/E Amps or one Vidar. Then Move up to Balanced amps or Two Vidars in Mono. All while Keeping the Mani Plugged into the SE inputs and maybe your reel to reel or 8 track if you so please.

 

[Baldr]

Beyond a very simple point, the more multipurpose you make it, the more useless it becomes.  Period.

 

[nedifer]

  Beyond a very simple point, the more multipurpose you make it, the more useless it becomes.  Period.

 
Not to mention often more expensive...

 

[hornytoad]

   

 
 
There was a good reason for line level out. 
 
Seems a bit redundant when they already have 7 dedicated headphone amps.
 
 
You are correct - that is my point. It seems Schiit designed Saga and Freya exclusively for speaker listeners, making no concessions for headphone users. As a company that built their reputation on headphone gear, I find that baffling.
 
Having the second pair of attenuated line outs is convenient for the few that also run sub(s) with their speakers (not withstanding that a lot of active speakers already have sub-out circuits built in). But look at it this way: it's a lot easier to get splitters to run two sets of speaker amps than it is to retrofit either preamp with a fixed line out.
 
 
Any time you pass the signal through unnecessary circuitry you change (degrade) the signal. Why run the signal through two sets of volume controls if you don't need to? The line out bypasses the volume control, thereby passing on a purer signal to your headphone amp, where you can control the volume independantly.
 
 

SO are you telling me I cannot hook up a Jotenheim to let's say a Freya? 

 

[mks100]

Was very excited to order the Fulla 2 on Wednesday and paid for 2 Day Shipping to have it for the Weekend.  Just received the original Fulla today instead of the Fulla 2 I ordered.  Awaiting a response from Schiit.