[belgiangenius]

 
 


Well then I hope that Satan delivers for you!


 


I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to more serious systems though.   I've never actually owned a system with a standalone amp and speakers though so could someone explain to me the purpose of preamps?


 


It would seem to me any line level source can plug right into the amp and the amp will amplify it to speaker level output.   Why the need for something between the amp and the source?   For unusually weak sources?

Preamps are primarily for input selection and volume control.  They used to be used for significant amplification too, in the days of low level line sources like turntables and tape decks.



Today, the amplification is not really needed, but I have tried passive preamps and I find you usually get better dynamics with an active preamp.  I currently have an Adcom GFP-750, which allows you to switch between passive and active modes.  With the Yggdrasil in particular, I find it sounds much better in active mode.  But, then the volume is really high and hard to adjust finely with the potentiometer.



Being able to choose between passive, active, and a unity gain buffer, and also have 128 levels of adjustment (as with the theoretical Freya) would really kick ass!

 

[KewlMunky]

   
Well then I hope that Satan delivers for you!
 
I'm a bit of a n00b when it comes to more serious systems though.   I've never actually owned a system with a standalone amp and speakers though so could someone explain to me the purpose of preamps?
 
It would seem to me any line level source can plug right into the amp and the amp will amplify it to speaker level output.   Why the need for something between the amp and the source?   For unusually weak sources?

They are mainly used as a volume control for poweramps, as poweramps don't have a volume control. Not all DACs/sources have a volume control, either. So if you ran a system without any volume control between the power amp and the source, you would be running the power amp full power at all times.
 
And as mentioned above, input selection is a big feature as well.

 

[mattlach]

Lol. I just spotted my typo above...

 

[mattlach]

They are mainly used as a volume control for poweramps, as poweramps don't have a volume control. Not all DACs/sources have a volume control, either. So if you ran a system without any volume control between the power amp and the source, you would be running the power amp full power at all times.

And as mentioned above, input selection is a big feature as well.

Ah, I didn't realize that there were amps that without volume controls.

I would have thought this would be a pretty poor implementation as far as SNR goes.

Usually you want your input to have as strong a signal as you can (without resukting in clipping of course) so that you don't wind up having your final amp amplify the noise floor too much, right?

 

[Pandahead]

 
 
Quote:

Pic?

​Saga is now doing temporary duty until Freya becomes a reality. It will move to den.

 

[Pandahead]

 
Quote:

Sort of like a gas station bathroom key?

 
 

 
Nah.  That'd require a rubber chicken and some duct tape.  I bet it would be harder to misplace, though...
 
 
 
Front and back view. Well, it helps pass the time in between hitting the refresh button on the Schiit site!

 

[watchnerd]

Usually you want your input to have as strong a signal as you can (without resukting in clipping of course) so that you don't wind up having your final amp amplify the noise floor too much, right?

 
No...you want the input to the power amp to be at the specified voltage so that the subsequent gain stages are driven correctly and not over- or under-driven.

 

[bigro]

 
​Saga is now doing temporary duty until Freya becomes a reality. It will move to den.

Looks Like a Mjolnir 2 With a Remote Stick.

 

[mattlach]

   
No...you want the input to the power amp to be at the specified voltage so that the subsequent gain stages are driven correctly and not over- or under-driven.

 
Huh, as a non-audio expert, that is totally counter-intuitive to me.  
 
My engineering spidy sense has always told me to seek to maximize everything analogue in the pipeline (as long as it doesn't cause clipping) and only ever control volume at the last possible stage in the pipeline, in order to maximize SNR.

 

[Pandahead]

  Looks Like a Mjolnir 2 With a Remote Stick.

​Yes it is a Mjolnir 2. That's the before picture, Saga sits there now until Freya. AviP wanted to see a picture of the aluminum rod remote stick from a post a couple pages back.

 

[Sam Lord]

   
Huh, as a non-audio expert, that is totally counter-intuitive to me.  
 
My engineering spidy sense has always told me to seek to maximize everything analogue in the pipeline (as long as it doesn't cause clipping) and only ever control volume at the last possible stage in the pipeline, in order to maximize SNR.

 
From the master, Grant Carpenter (creator of the Gordon Microphone Preamplifier): "The primary source of distortion in any preamplifier is gain."
 
The goal is proper gain staging to minimize noise and distortion from all sources in a chain.  Minimize gain: nearly all consumer and professional systems have excess gain available for various reasons.
 
The Saga and Freya are extreme bargains, but the big mystery is why nobody (as in NOBODY) builds a simple, SS unity gain preamp with remote control.  I expect Schiit will come out with such an item eventually; i.e. a non-upgradable preamp having only the clean SS buffer.

 

[watchnerd]

   
Huh, as a non-audio expert, that is totally counter-intuitive to me.  
 
My engineering spidy sense has always told me to seek to maximize everything analogue in the pipeline (as long as it doesn't cause clipping) and only ever control volume at the last possible stage in the pipeline, in order to maximize SNR.

 
It shouldn't be counter-intuitive; if you don't standardize the input voltage, you don't know how to regulate gain in the power amp.
 
Also, max voltage does not guarantee max SNR.  With increased voltage and current comes increased RFI, which is why the FCC has emissions and testing standards relating to audio amplifiers.
 
In fact, consumer and pro audio gear have different standards -- on the back of most powered speakers meant for studio use you'll find different input settings depending on if you're connecting consumer or pro gear.  See the example below with the Sensitivity setting on the back of the speaker:
 

 

[mattlach]

   
It shouldn't be counter-intuitive; if you don't standardize the input voltage, you don't know how to regulate gain in the power amp.
 
Also, max voltage does not guarantee max SNR.  With increased voltage and current comes increased RFI, which is why the FCC has emissions and testing standards relating to audio amplifiers.
 
In fact, consumer and pro audio gear have different standards -- on the back of most powered speakers meant for studio use you'll find different input settings depending on if you're connecting consumer or pro gear.  See the example below with the Sensitivity setting on the back of the speaker:
 

 
 
Well, yeah, but standard line level is 2V right?  So one would imagine that they would optimize for say a 0V-2.25V range or so, in which case pinning your source at 2V would be the thing to do?

 

[bigro]

 
​Yes it is a Mjolnir 2. That's the before picture, Saga sits there now until Freya. AviP wanted to see a picture of the aluminum rod remote stick from a post a couple pages back.

Ah ok. I missed that. I know the feeling. I use a Valhalla 2 as a preamp. Awaiting the freya as well. How are you liking the saga?

 

[Oveja Negra]

Lol. I just spotted my typo above...

 
Are you one of these kids by any chance?