Schiit Happened: The Story of the World's Most Improbable Start-Up
Apr 25, 2016 at 11:05 AM Post #10,516 of 152,620

One of Schiit's hallmarks has been their minimalism - one function per chassis and absolutely no more than needed to get the job done. Sometimes less, as in the lack of remote or balance controls. Perhaps with their entry into two-channel speaker gear, they will reconsider. I would greatly enjoy the chance to purchase a Schiit pre-amp with all the bells and whistles - I'd even like tone controls (horrified gasps from the audiophiles) and 21st-century connectivity. Even a touch-screen display, which could be turned off to eliminate the possibility of spurious noise. If this seems too radical, why not two pres? One would be a hair-shirt source-and-volume-only box, which could probably fit in a Bifrost chassis; the full-boat model would fill the Rag case. As for power meters on power amps, yeah, why not? Though I'm betting the very thought makes Jason nauseous...
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 12:40 PM Post #10,517 of 152,620
Regarding the look of some of their future products.
 
I'm really curious to know how those 2-channel pre/amps will look. I was convinced they were going to look like Yggdrasil/Ragnarok, but it seems that's not the case. Jason stated they will look "different", like a sui generis design? :p
 
If the design is not set in a stone yet, a remote control has my vote. No remote control is ok for a headphone amplifier, cause no matter how long the cable is, overall the person is always near the equipment. That's not the case (a lot of times) with power amplifiers.
 
I'd be a shame to be, for example, cooking in my kitchen while listening music and be forced to go to my living room to manually adjust the volume or turn it down if I need to answer a phone call, instead of pressing the mute button in a remote control.
 
Also, a RF control would be awesome, so there is no need to actually aim at the pre/amp.
 
Man, I'm asking a lot, please don't hit me
biggrin.gif
 
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 12:46 PM Post #10,518 of 152,620
 
If a VU meter somehow adds enough noise to the music then perhaps there is something seriously wrong with the device's design.  But my ears are not those of a god.  Not even a minor one, and I have always stated that if someone claims to hear a difference in equipment that is more than reasonably beyond our range of hearing or (especially so) if it is totally subjective (i.e., a "blossoming, fuller, richer, more textured layerizificationing of the soundstage") then that is the difference for them alone.  As I said, the individuals imagination or ego is what I would suspect.  Double blind and prove it or just claim it as your own experience. 
 

 
In this case I guess you should never again trust a single piece of hardware coming from Schiit. As it happens Schiit headquarters is infested with "subjectivists" (some corrupted former "objectivists"), who firmly believe in no DBT'ing (no blindfolds or anything), use human ears in sighted conditions for final fine-tuning of their devices, obstinately refuse to release a DAC/amp combo for fear of infesting each other with GHz noise (and curtly point you to buying a Modi/Magni duo, which are shielded from each other very nicely, thank you), won't add in displays for much the same reasons, firmly believe that published specs are largely uncorrelated with sonic performance, consistently tout the 3D holographic soundstage/imaging of their DACs, believe that sonic performance in the audible band is related to a stable FR outside the audible band, and will even claim to hear differences between their DACs, amps and, yes!, between tubes and SS gear. Who knows what other audiophile voodoo incantations they throw at their devices...
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 1:43 PM Post #10,519 of 152,620
   
I'm wondering, if one of those custom parts doesn't work as intended due to a mistake on the provider's part. Do you get another fixed one in a shorter period of time or the 10-12 weeks are valid no matter what?

Outside of metal we've rarely had any problems with the quality of parts.  The 10 - 12 week lead time is simply the time it takes for the part to be scheduled and built.  We simply take that in to account and proceed accordingly.  To get the best pricing on components, we need to schedule our purchases months in advance.  Purchasing from Mouser and Digikey is okay in a pinch but there is a risk they won't have the part you need and you will pay an additional 20 - 30% or more over a scheduled delivery.  10-12 weeks is an estimate however, and there can be delays.
 
Our biggest debacle with delayed parts was last year when we getting set up to do our second Yggdrasil run.  I had placed an order for the Analog Devices AD5791 chip through [a major parts house].  This is a pretty expensive chip.  About a week before delivery I get an email from [a major parts house] and Analog was going to be a month late with their delivery.   I needed to find 1000 AD5791 chips.  At the time, this chip was very hard to locate and I couldn't find 1000 of them anywhere.
 
In working with electronic parts, I've worked with four kinds of suppliers/distributors.  The big distributors are companies like AVNET and Future.  They purchase direct from the manufacturer, have huge line cards with tons of different suppliers, have tons of people, but I have found the service to be poor and they are generally indifferent to problems that we have experienced.  
 
The small distributors have smaller line cards, the service is a lot more personal, and they will go out of their way to take care of you.  Relationships are a lot more important at that level.  I prefer to purchase from these types of distributors.  Prices are generally about the same as the big guys- but you need to order in advance of your need because they don't have the capital to stock a massive warehouse with parts you may or may not need.  These guys will work their butts off to keep you as a customer.
 
Next, you have the big stock houses that keep tons of stock available for purchase online.  These are the Mousers and Digikeys.  They usually have the part or something close to it.  You will pay a price premium for this convenience.  They have fast shipping.  We used to use these guys as our main suppliers.  Now, we only use them for fill-in and emergency orders.  There is little relationship and no loyalty with these guys.  I have spent millions of dollars at Mouser since 2012.  When I call, they treat me the same as if I was the guy spending $45 on a DIY project.  They've never called and asked me if I needed anything.  They've never offered a price break beyond what is listed on the website.  They've never gone out of their way to help with a back order.
 
Finally, the bottom-feeders.  These are the guys who are the trolls.  They buy up hard to find parts, wait for a shortage, and then sell them at inflated prices.
 
Back to last year, I found a bottom-feeder who had 1000 pcs of the AD5791.  He would sell them to me, but the price was about 25% more than I would have paid at [a major parts house].  This was a price is no object moment.  Yggy was red-hot and we had sold out of the first run in less than 30 days.  So I sent over a PO, filled our the Net30 credit application and went with it.  First they quoted 3 days- wonderful.  Then the confirmation said seven days.  Okay, I can live with that.  They charged a huge chunk of the cost to my AMEX as a surety.  7 days came and went.  I called.
 
"Where are my parts?"
 
"They need to test them, and then we'll get them over."
 
This guy was playing me.  Microchips are shipped in sealed, vacuum packed, moisture free bags.  No one opens those things outside of a production environment.  One shock and an $80 microchip is worthless.
 
"No one tests microchips- when will they get here?"
 
"A few more days."
 
So I went back to waiting.  May flowed in to June.  No parts. I called. I emailed. 
 
Each time, it was a different story.  Shipping delays.  Problem in the warehouse.  I was being strung along, at that moment, I didn't have a choice.  [A major parts house] had bumped my April shipment back again, so there was no relief coming from my original supplier.
 
I threatened to pull the order and do a chargeback if the parts weren't shipped.  They finally shipped 26 days after the quoted time period.  What were they doing during that time?  My guess is they were buying them up from other suppliers that I didn't have access to and then reshipping them to me.  The guy just needed to keep me on the hook until that happened.  The backordered Yggys were shipped in July, right before the launch of the Gungnir Multi.  I guess I should be thankful he didn't ship me counterfeit parts.
 
The company called me weeks later trolling for business.  I told them I wouldn't buy a fire extinguisher from them if my ass was on fire and to never call me again.  I guess my comment got back to the salesman I worked with.  He called and tried to mend fences.  I'll never get those four minutes back.
 
I learned to schedule parts, to order early, and to keep a buffer. 
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 2:28 PM Post #10,521 of 152,620
  I'd be a shame to be, for example, cooking in my kitchen while listening music and be forced to go to my living room to manually adjust the volume...

 
Don't you just hate it when you get wet dough stuck all over the volume knob?  I just know I'll have to depreciate my Studio substantially now if ever I want to sell it. 
wink.gif

 
Apr 25, 2016 at 3:59 PM Post #10,523 of 152,620
 
Finally, the bottom-feeders.  These are the guys who are the trolls.  They buy up hard to find parts, wait for a shortage, and then sell them at inflated prices.
 
Back to last year, I found a bottom-feeder who had 1000 pcs of the AD5791.  He would sell them to me, but the price was about 25% more than I would have paid at [a major parts house].  This was a price is no object moment.  Yggy was red-hot and we had sold out of the first run in less than 30 days.  So I sent over a PO, filled our the Net30 credit application and went with it.  First they quoted 3 days- wonderful.  Then the confirmation said seven days.  Okay, I can live with that.  They charged a huge chunk of the cost to my AMEX as a surety.  7 days came and went.  I called.
 
"Where are my parts?"
 
"They need to test them, and then we'll get them over."
 
This guy was playing me.  Microchips are shipped in sealed, vacuum packed, moisture free bags.  No one opens those things outside of a production environment.  One shock and an $80 microchip is worthless.
 
"No one tests microchips- when will they get here?"
 
"A few more days."
 
So I went back to waiting.  May flowed in to June.  No parts. I called. I emailed. 
 
Each time, it was a different story.  Shipping delays.  Problem in the warehouse.  I was being strung along, at that moment, I didn't have a choice.  [A major parts house] had bumped my April shipment back again, so there was no relief coming from my original supplier.
 
I threatened to pull the order and do a chargeback if the parts weren't shipped.  They finally shipped 26 days after the quoted time period.  What were they doing during that time?  My guess is they were buying them up from other suppliers that I didn't have access to and then reshipping them to me.  The guy just needed to keep me on the hook until that happened.  The backordered Yggys were shipped in July, right before the launch of the Gungnir Multi.  I guess I should be thankful he didn't ship me counterfeit parts.
 
The company called me weeks later trolling for business.  I told them I wouldn't buy a fire extinguisher from them if my ass was on fire and to never call me again.  I guess my comment got back to the salesman I worked with.  He called and tried to mend fences.  I'll never get those four minutes back.

 
Surprised you didn't name who it was that did this. If a company representative blatantly lied to me to try and excuse a missed deadline, I'd tell everyone I could reach to avoid doing business with them.
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 4:03 PM Post #10,524 of 152,620
  Outside of metal we've rarely had any problems with the quality of parts.  The 10 - 12 week lead time is simply the time it takes for the part to be scheduled and built.  We simply take that in to account and proceed accordingly.  To get the best pricing on components, we need to schedule our purchases months in advance.  Purchasing from Mouser and Digikey is okay in a pinch but there is a risk they won't have the part you need and you will pay an additional 20 - 30% or more over a scheduled delivery.  10-12 weeks is an estimate however, and there can be delays.
 
Our biggest debacle with delayed parts was last year when we getting set up to do our second Yggdrasil run.  I had placed an order for the Analog Devices AD5791 chip through [a major parts house].  This is a pretty expensive chip.  About a week before delivery I get an email from [a major parts house] and Analog was going to be a month late with their delivery.   I needed to find 1000 AD5791 chips.  At the time, this chip was very hard to locate and I couldn't find 1000 of them anywhere.
 
In working with electronic parts, I've worked with four kinds of suppliers/distributors.  The big distributors are companies like AVNET and Future.  They purchase direct from the manufacturer, have huge line cards with tons of different suppliers, have tons of people, but I have found the service to be poor and they are generally indifferent to problems that we have experienced.  
 
The small distributors have smaller line cards, the service is a lot more personal, and they will go out of their way to take care of you.  Relationships are a lot more important at that level.  I prefer to purchase from these types of distributors.  Prices are generally about the same as the big guys- but you need to order in advance of your need because they don't have the capital to stock a massive warehouse with parts you may or may not need.  These guys will work their butts off to keep you as a customer.
 
Next, you have the big stock houses that keep tons of stock available for purchase online.  These are the Mousers and Digikeys.  They usually have the part or something close to it.  You will pay a price premium for this convenience.  They have fast shipping.  We used to use these guys as our main suppliers.  Now, we only use them for fill-in and emergency orders.  There is little relationship and no loyalty with these guys.  I have spent millions of dollars at Mouser since 2012.  When I call, they treat me the same as if I was the guy spending $45 on a DIY project.  They've never called and asked me if I needed anything.  They've never offered a price break beyond what is listed on the website.  They've never gone out of their way to help with a back order.
 
Finally, the bottom-feeders.  These are the guys who are the trolls.  They buy up hard to find parts, wait for a shortage, and then sell them at inflated prices.
 
Back to last year, I found a bottom-feeder who had 1000 pcs of the AD5791.  He would sell them to me, but the price was about 25% more than I would have paid at [a major parts house].  This was a price is no object moment.  Yggy was red-hot and we had sold out of the first run in less than 30 days.  So I sent over a PO, filled our the Net30 credit application and went with it.  First they quoted 3 days- wonderful.  Then the confirmation said seven days.  Okay, I can live with that.  They charged a huge chunk of the cost to my AMEX as a surety.  7 days came and went.  I called.
 
"Where are my parts?"
 
"They need to test them, and then we'll get them over."
 
This guy was playing me.  Microchips are shipped in sealed, vacuum packed, moisture free bags.  No one opens those things outside of a production environment.  One shock and an $80 microchip is worthless.
 
"No one tests microchips- when will they get here?"
 
"A few more days."
 
So I went back to waiting.  May flowed in to June.  No parts. I called. I emailed. 
 
Each time, it was a different story.  Shipping delays.  Problem in the warehouse.  I was being strung along, at that moment, I didn't have a choice.  [A major parts house] had bumped my April shipment back again, so there was no relief coming from my original supplier.
 
I threatened to pull the order and do a chargeback if the parts weren't shipped.  They finally shipped 26 days after the quoted time period.  What were they doing during that time?  My guess is they were buying them up from other suppliers that I didn't have access to and then reshipping them to me.  The guy just needed to keep me on the hook until that happened.  The backordered Yggys were shipped in July, right before the launch of the Gungnir Multi.  I guess I should be thankful he didn't ship me counterfeit parts.
 
The company called me weeks later trolling for business.  I told them I wouldn't buy a fire extinguisher from them if my ass was on fire and to never call me again.  I guess my comment got back to the salesman I worked with.  He called and tried to mend fences.  I'll never get those four minutes back.
 
I learned to schedule parts, to order early, and to keep a buffer. 

 

You don't buy directly from Analog Devices?
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 4:38 PM Post #10,525 of 152,620
 
 

You don't buy directly from Analog Devices?


Most chip companies don't sell direct to customers.  They use distributors.  I tried working directly with Analog Devices and they referred me to their distributors.  Analog has a website where you can purchase parts, but it isn't really meant for the quantities we consume and you can't schedule deliveries.  I get the same price working with distributors, so it all works out in the end. 
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 4:41 PM Post #10,526 of 152,620


You don't buy directly from Analog Devices?


It's probably too small a volume for them to care, given how apathetic the large parts house are with the 'small' order that Alex wanted to place (from their perspective, not Schiit's).

I'd place a small wager that AD's ordering unit is a shipping pallet of devices, if not more.

In business, size is always relative. I used to work for a company where their major division was not interested in a 'niche' market as it was only worth $1B in annual global sales. Not worth them getting out of bed for in the morning...!

Alex beat me to it... cross post, mods feel free to delete.
 
Apr 25, 2016 at 4:46 PM Post #10,527 of 152,620
 
Most chip companies don't sell direct to customers.  They use distributors.  I tried working directly with Analog Devices and they referred me to their distributors.  Analog has a website where you can purchase parts, but it isn't really meant for the quantities we consume and you can't schedule deliveries.  I get the same price working with distributors, so it all works out in the end. 


That makes sense. 
 
Apr 26, 2016 at 6:45 PM Post #10,528 of 152,620
 
Most chip companies don't sell direct to customers.  They use distributors.  I tried working directly with Analog Devices and they referred me to their distributors.  Analog has a website where you can purchase parts, but it isn't really meant for the quantities we consume and you can't schedule deliveries.  I get the same price working with distributors, so it all works out in the end. 

 
Hey Alex. I'm sure you are very busy keeping up with whatever chaos Jason and Mike leave in their wake, but I would like to hear some BTS stories if you have any. 
 
Apr 26, 2016 at 6:47 PM Post #10,529 of 152,620
   
Hey Alex. I'm sure you are very busy keeping up with whatever chaos Jason and Mike leave in their wake, but I would like to hear some BTS stories if you have any. 


How about some pics?:
 
https://www.facebook.com/Schiit/posts/1070387526353203
 

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