[average_joe]

Quote:

Hello all, after a few days with my SE5 I want to thank Joe for this review. I had always been attracted to them but might not have made the investment without his comparisons. For a few months I have trusted him without having a clue...of course other trusted headfiers loved the se5. A few people on this thread made claims concerning the se5, intimating they were overhyped. Well let me tell you this: I own or have tried many top iems and the SE5 deserve all the praise and more. With the correct source and fit, the se5 are a top tier performer among the best I have heard easily. They are not dark sounding, they are not small or congested. They are fluid and detailed with amazing bass, and have an unparalled naturalness. So the detractors either have : a bad source, a bad fit, a problem with their ears or an ulterior motive. Thanks Grzegorz and Thanks Joe. As a side note, I have no conflict of interest, I bought se5 and se3 at full price.

 
Your welcome, and thank you for a very well written post.  I agree with everything and tried to help the detractors, but some of them didn't seem to want my help.  I too paid for the SE5 (I actually paid for the 3-way ref. first) and also took a flyer on them as the first buyer, and I would do it again!  But, the bottom line is you (and your wife) like them and can hear the performance I talk about in my review.  I am happy it turned out well for you!

 

[tupac0306]

Wow. You became supremus in just a few months

Great feedback, especially the part "not dark" which has been like one of the most two major "excuses" why people don't want to get SE5.
The other one because it's "bass heavy"...lol

 

[spkrs01]

I differ from Mimuoille's views a little.....
 
Personally, I feel the SE5 are so much more esoteric in terms of being picky of source/amp and power requirements than any other (C)IEM that I have encountered so far in my relatively short journey in Head Fi. I find that they have so much more that needs tapping into, in order to unlocking their full potential. At present there is a very slight dulling/woody character to the sound which I feel shouldn't be present. 
 
However, I feel the bass is the area that really needs investigating. The SE5 is by no means bass heavy, in fact, I am finding it a little lite in terms of extension and decay. Resolving it definitely is, as is the texture that it gets across, but example being, Hotel California - Hell Freezes Over and at the beginning with the kick drum.....after the first few strikes, usually the reverberations of the drum comes into play and you get the sense of the venue size being filled with the lingering bass. I find this missing with the SE5 which was quite a surprise! 
 
I am now coming round to thinking that the SE5 needs good quality voltage rather than current. I came to the conclusion when using the RX3 to drive the SE5, this amp got so warm trying to drive the SE5.
 
Another aspect that I feel needs dealing with is getting through the complex crossovers implemented on the SE5. If time allows, I will try and use the Triad L3 sourced by the DX100. The L3, I will whip up to 30 volts.......Problem at the moment is I do not have my LLP as it is lent out and I feel LLP may be the greatest difference that perhaps will realize the full potential of the SE5. If this fails then the Analog Squared Paper TU-05 is definitely on the cards...................
 
This will be the fun part of my journey with the SE5, trying to unlock their full potential!
 
Potentially the SE5 could be the BEST CIEM that one can buy! 
 
 
I would like to thank Mimuoille for making all the arrangements with my purchase of the SE5. I had first attempted to buy them in December but had quickly lost interest with all the arrangements that was required.....................and of course all the contributors on this thread

  

 

[Mython]

Quote:

... the detractors either have : a bad source, a bad fit, a problem with their ears or an ulterior motive.

 
 
 
Whoa, now slow down. Be very careful in making such sweeping assertions about other SE-5 owners who don't hear them as favourably as you and average_joe and others do.
 
The SE-5 is a very complex beast -  unusually deep insertion, relatively high impedance (for a CIEM), relatively complex crossover, no filters **, 5 drivers, 5 sound tubes, etc.,  and I personally suspect there might (potentially) be some possible phase inconsistencies in certain cases, perhaps natively to some SE-5s and/or perhaps as an interaction with the unique anatomy of a person's ear canal, but the jury is still out on this and perhaps we may never know the answer. Remember, it is not easy to squeeze so many drivers into some people's ear anatomy, and to retain ideal tube length for each and every driver can become a serious challenge. Also remember that many people who like the SE-5 and some of those who are disappointed with it, have been using the DX100, so I don't think we can necessarily point the finger at source in this particular instance. Furthermore, most of those who have been disappointed with the SE-5 have other CIEMs which they thoroughly enjoy, so I would be extremely cautious about assuming they have 'a problem with their ears'. You have been fortunate that the SE-5 sounds good to you, but instead of taking that experience and making sweeping assumptions about other owners who have had less fortunate experiences with the SE-5, I suggest you simply count your own blessings and enjoy your SE-5.
 
FWIW, I think Grzegorz is one of the most upstanding people I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with, even outside the CIEM world, and the quality of workmanship of his products is absolutely superb. I just think the SE-5 is an extremely complex beast, and none of us fully understands the minute acoustical interplays between so many drivers, sound tubes, and the unique anatomy of each person's ear canal (and indeed, each person's unique psycho-acoustic perceptions).
 
Personally, my experience of the SE-5 puts me somewhere in the middle of the negative and positive experiences expressed by others in this thread (and, FWIW, I have driven them with the DX100, which Joe gets excellent listening results from, with the SE-5). The SE-5 issues deeply intrigue me and, like no other CIEM I've ever seen discussed, I feel there are one or more delicate technical variables that might be elluding all of us and (dare I say it) perhaps even Grzegorz too, which, if we came to know them, might legitimately explain the strange disparity in negative and positive experiences of various SE-5 owners.
 
I don't know for sure. No one currently does; as I said, the jury is still very much out on these apparent inconsistencies with people's experiences of the SE-5.
 
Peace.  

 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
** NB, please note the following explanation, regarding absence of filters on the SE-5, from piotrus-g, from the Home-built CIEM thread ( http://www.head-fi.org/t/430688/home-made-iems/1515 ). Please particularly note the mention of tube length, and my above remarks about squeezing such a complex design into some customers' ear anatomy. Also note the mention of phase shifts, which I do believe may be a potential contributory factor in the differences expressed by different SE-5 owner's in their experience of the SE-5's sound characteristics (I have previously remarked upon this, some time ago, within this SE-5 review and appreciation thread).
 
 
Quote:

 
I find it particularly intriguing that, in contrast to almost all his peers, Grzegorz has produced something as complex as the SE-5 without resorting to the use of filters. Very impressive achievement, IMO.

 
 
Quote:

It's a combination of tube length and diameter plus phase shifts. ACS also made its IEMs without dampers back in the days.
 

 

[tupac0306]

the bass is more dependent on the source than the rest of the spectrum. I used to have this feeling too that se5 can sometimes lack of presence\punch on 801 and dx100 (I never find it lack of extension though)..but after I got D2,627 and 901, they really make se5 pump out the punchy and deepest bass without bloating (I sometimes even think it's too punchy on bass heavy songs)

 

[Mimouille]

I was not referring to you who always had some measured and argumented opinions. I qm.talking about a couple of people who.said they were crap.more or less. I do not agree with all your impressions but the comparison with Miracles is pretty accurate to me. What I meant is that some of these people seemed to have ulterior motive and I know feel their description was definitely biased. I am not saying someone who does not like them.as much as I do is full of it, just that someone who says they are crap has an issue somewhere.
Peace too

Whoa, now slow down. Be very careful in making such sweeping assertions about other SE-5 owners who don't hear them as favourably as you and average_joe and others do.

The SE-5 is a very complex beast -  unusually deep insertion, relatively high impedance (for a CIEM), relatively complex crossover, no filters, 5 drivers, 5 sound tubes, etc.,  and I personally suspect there might (potentially) be some possible phase inconsistencies in certain cases, perhaps natively to some SE-5s and/or perhaps as an interaction with the unique anatomy of a person's ear canal, but the jury is still out on this and perhaps we may never know the answer. Remember, it is not easy to squeeze so many drivers into some people's ear anatomy, and to retain ideal tube length for each and every driver can become a serious challenge. Also remember that many people who like the SE-5 and some of those who are disappointed with it, have been using the DX100, so I don't think we can point the finger at source in this particular instance. Furthermore, most of those who have been disappointed with the SE-5 have other CIEMs which they thoroughly enjoy, so I would be extremely cautious about assuming they have 'a problem with their ears'. You have been fortunate that the SE-5 sounds good to you, but instead of taking that experience and making sweeping assumptions about other owners who have had less fortunate experiences with the SE-5, I suggest you simply count your own blessings and enjoy your SE-5.

FWIW, I think Grzegorz is one of the most upstanding people I have ever had the pleasure of doing business with, even outside the CIEM world, and the quality of workmanship of his products is absolutely superb. I just think the SE-5 is an extremely complex beast, and none of us fully understands the minute acoustical interplays between so many drivers, sound tubes, and the unique anatomy of each person's ear canal (and indeed, each person's unique psycho-acoustic perceptions).

Personally, my experience of the SE-5 puts me somewhere in the middle of the negative and positive experiences expressed by others in this thread. The SE-5 issues deeply intrigue me and, like no other CIEM I've ever seen discussed, I feel there are one or more delicate technical variables that might be elluding all of us and (dare I say it) perhaps even Grzegorz too, which, if we came to know them, might legitimately explain the strange disparity in negative and positive experiences of various SE-5 owners.

I don't know for sure. No one currently does; as I said, the jury is still very much out on these apparent inconsistencies with people's experiences of the SE-5.

Peace.  

 

[Mimouille]

Yeah losus too much timus thanks. I find them.in no way dark, not with any source at my disposal.

Wow. You became supremus in just a few months

Great feedback, especially the part "not dark" which has been like one of the most two major "excuses" why people don't want to get SE5.
The other one because it's "bass heavy"...lol

 

[Mimouille]

We do hear it differently or maybe the stage 2 just pairs well. The woodiness you mention I find makes them sound natural instead of digital. The thing where I agree is that they sometimes would benefit.from amount to kick the bass a bit. You can feel it is there, but small daps slightly lack energy.

I differ from Mimuoille's views a little.....

Personally, I feel the SE5 are so much more esoteric in terms of being picky of source/amp and power requirements than any other (C)IEM that I have encountered so far in my relatively short journey in Head Fi. I find that they have so much more that needs tapping into, in order to unlocking their full potential. At present there is a very slight dulling/woody character to the sound which I feel shouldn't be present. 

However, I feel the bass is the area that really needs investigating. The SE5 is by no means bass heavy, in fact, I am finding it a little lite in terms of extension and decay. Resolving it definitely is, as is the texture that it gets across, but example being, Hotel California - Hell Freezes Over and at the beginning with the kick drum.....after the first few strikes, usually the reverberations of the drum comes into play and you get the sense of the venue size being filled with the lingering bass. I find this missing with the SE5 which was quite a surprise! 


I am now coming round to thinking that the SE5 needs good quality voltage rather than current. I came to the conclusion when using the RX3 to drive the SE5, this amp got so warm trying to drive the SE5.

Another aspect that I feel needs dealing with is getting through the complex crossovers implemented on the SE5. If time allows, I will try and use the Triad L3 sourced by the DX100. The L3, I will whip up to 30 volts.......Problem at the moment is I do not have my LLP as it is lent out and I feel LLP may be the greatest difference that perhaps will realize the full potential of the SE5. If this fails then the Analog Squared Paper TU-05 is definitely on the cards...................

This will be the fun part of my journey with the SE5, trying to unlock their full potential!

Potentially the SE5 could be the BEST CIEM that one can buy! 


I would like to thank Mimuoille for making all the arrangements with my purchase of the SE5. I had first attempted to buy them in December but had quickly lost interest with all the arrangements that was required.....................and of course all the contributors on this thread

  

 

[Mython]

Quote:

I was not referring to you who always had some measured and argumented opinions. I qm.talking about a couple of people who.said they were crap.more or less. I do not agree with all your impressions but the comparison with Miracles is pretty accurate to me. What I meant is that some of these people seemed to have ulterior motive and I know feel their description was definitely biased. I am not saying someone who does not like them.as much as I do is full of it, just that someone who says they are crap has an issue somewhere.

 
Fair comment (and I didn't take your remarks at all personally; that wasn't my reason for posting), but still, I maintain that there is a big 'unknown' with something as complex as the SE-5. It was this that I was trying to express, in contrast to your rather sweeping statements about potential reasons for some users not enjoying this particular CIEM.
 
Nothing personal, either way. Just an open debate/discussion; it's all good.

 

[Jazzyfi]

Yep, as I mentioned before, the SE5's high impedance needs voltage instead of current.

P=V*I or P=V2/R or I2*R

So to achieve the same amount of power, high impedance iem/headphone needs a lot of voltage. Your quickstep with15V battery might be the best pairing for SE5 .

I am now coming round to thinking that the SE5 needs good quality voltage rather than current. I came to the conclusion when using the RX3 to drive the SE5, this amp got so warm trying to drive the SE5.   

 

[spkrs01]

Quote:

Yep, as I mentioned before, the SE5's high impedance needs voltage instead of current.

P=V*I or P=V2/R or I2*R

So to achieve the same amount of power, high impedance iem/headphone needs a lot of voltage. Your quickstep with15V battery might be the best pairing for SE5

.

 
 
 
First I will buy a XP8000 powerpack...............Thanks for the suggestion!

 

[Gurdipurdi]

I'm getting my impressions done this friday.
I read on the SE website that the impressions must be made closed-mouth and I contacted Grzegorz about the subject for some extra information.
This is what he said.
 

Taking ear impressions differs depending on manufacturers needs and while most (acrylic manufacturers) require open-mouth impressions, we require closed-mouth ones. It is so, because taking impressions open-mouthed expands/stretches one's ear canals and this way artificially makes the girth of the canals bigger. It's a way of compensating for a less dense material (acrylic) to provide greater isolation. It's not required with silicone, and it's rather counter-effective, because it's a different material and doesn't need any alterations. In fact, if impressions were to be taken open-mouth, there is a high probability that the canals would be uncomfortable and too bulky on the final monitors.

 
This might sound like a stupid question. But since it is a lot of money, I need to ask it to get a little ease of mind: closed-mouth means putting my jaws together, without practising force? Because if I close my mouth without gently biting, I find it hard to keep my jaw in the same position. Or maybe I'm worrying to much. Anyway, any information is welcome.

And average_joe, I'm looking forward to your SE 5-way cable comparison.

 

[Mython]

Quote:

closed-mouth means putting my jaws together, without practising force? Because if I close my mouth without gently biting, I find it hard to keep my jaw in the same position. Or maybe I'm worrying to much. Anyway, any information is welcome.
 

 
Yes, closed-mouth does mean closing your jaw/mouth and putting your teeth together, so they touch each other. However, it is important that you do not use any force! If you use force, you put the facial muscles under tension and this can alter the shape of the ear canals. You seriously don't want that to happen whilst the impression material is curing in your ears. Many people make the same mistake when they have open-mouthed impressions done and they don't consciously realise they are exerting too much pressure on the bite block. It is very important to strike a balance where your jaw is in the correct position but you are not exerting any more than the very slightest tension in the jaw muscles.

 

[Gurdipurdi]

That does sound very logical and is in line with my expectations. 
Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[AmberOzL]

Guys, I have a newbie question.
 
I didn't read all the thread yet, no time unfortunately. In SE website, the specs are not mentioned. What are the impedance and sensivity of these ciems?
 
For me, they are kind of end game ciem and soon or late they will be mine. I am just curious and being impatient for the moment.