[Audioexcels]

Quote:

I think John originally thought that attenuators wouldn't be necessary with the MK3 version, but even with the output voltage now within the correct S/Pdif spec, the attenuators may still be able to reduce cable reflections and improve performance.
 

I know if I owned the MKIII, the amount of money into one warrants trial and error regardless.  These attenuators are so cheap one should definitely experiment regardless of what was said about not having to use one so long as it doesn't cause harm (which of course it will not).  Drez is a good example of one that decided to trial/error with the attenuators and has found improvement with his MKIII already!  I say give it a go, or ya'll never know

But yes, I know John's original intention was to produce a perfect device that would not require anything, and it may be how it is for his own testing system that he builds these on, but may not be the same as someone like Drez or another person's system.

 

[pigmode]

I have a 20 dB attenuator that I'm *guessing* came with the MK3. Haven't tried it yet.
 
The MK3 has been a worthy and gratifying addition to my system. What it did was improve the sound quality pretty much across the board, without changing the sound signature, and I consider the latter an important feature.   

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

I know if I owned the MKIII, the amount of money into one warrants trial and error regardless.  These attenuators are so cheap one should definitely experiment regardless of what was said about not having to use one so long as it doesn't cause harm (which of course it will not).  Drez is a good example of one that decided to trial/error with the attenuators and has found improvement with his MKIII already!  I say give it a go, or ya'll never know

But yes, I know John's original intention was to produce a perfect device that would not require anything, and it may be how it is for his own testing system that he builds these on, but may not be the same as someone like Drez or another person's system.

Since John said attenuators would not be necessary with the MK3, that may be a fine example of placebo effect.
 

 

[DaveBSC]

Quote:

Since John said attenuators would not be necessary with the MK3, that may be a fine example of placebo effect.
 

...except John now packages the MK3 with a 20dB attenuator.

 

[Freazy]

I leave my 20db attenuator attached to my MK3,i never even listened without the attenuator.
It sounds good as it is,maybe will try without the attenuator later on.

 

[drez]

Since I cant seem to find this posted before I thought I might:
 
"I made this discovery recently when somebody came by with a M2tech Young DAC to compare to my DACs - you can use the Young DAC driver with my Hiface devices, MK3, JKDAC & JKDAC32. It sounds much better than the Hiface driver - richer, more laid back, more analogue like but without losing any detail.
 
This driver installation has to be done manually through the control panel & Windows will warn you that "this driver may not work with this device" but go ahead - it's worth it.
 
Oh, btw, the owner of the Young left with a JKDAC32 after auditioning both on my system. He's now the happy owner of a JKDAC32 & is retiring his Young & external Teddy Pardo which powered it."  (https://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/announcements/improvethesoundofmyhifacedevices)
 
I would have to agree with this - sounds much sweeter than stock hiface drivers, very well suited to my sabre-based DAC.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Since I cant seem to find this posted before I thought I might:
 
"I made this discovery recently when somebody came by with a M2tech Young DAC to compare to my DACs - you can use the Young DAC driver with my Hiface devices, MK3, JKDAC & JKDAC32. It sounds much better than the Hiface driver - richer, more laid back, more analogue like but without losing any detail.
 
This driver installation has to be done manually through the control panel & Windows will warn you that "this driver may not work with this device" but go ahead - it's worth it.
 
Oh, btw, the owner of the Young left with a JKDAC32 after auditioning both on my system. He's now the happy owner of a JKDAC32 & is retiring his Young & external Teddy Pardo which powered it."  (https://sites.google.com/site/hifacemods/home/announcements/improvethesoundofmyhifacedevices)
 
I would have to agree with this - sounds much sweeter than stock hiface drivers, very well suited to my sabre-based DAC.

Yes, it does sound smoother and thicker. I'll listen to it for the next few days to see if it's actually better though.

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

...except John now packages the MK3 with a 20dB attenuator.

I wonder why he reversed his opinion?
 
Edit:  can you point me to a link for this?   Thanks

 

[Sapientiam]

He said somewhere (maybe on SNA) that he'd cranked up the output level on the Mk3 as far as possible as he felt maximum attenuation (in the cable, rather than at the source) was the best way to go. So the basically the Mk3 needs more dB of attenuation because its starting at a higher level. But don't quote me on this, I might have grabbed the wrong end of the stick...

 

[upstateguy]

Quote:

He said somewhere (maybe on SNA) that he'd cranked up the output level on the Mk3 as far as possible as he felt maximum attenuation (in the cable, rather than at the source) was the best way to go. So the basically the Mk3 needs more dB of attenuation because its starting at a higher level. But don't quote me on this, I might have grabbed the wrong end of the stick...

That's interesting.  One of the biggest criticisms of the stock hiface was that the output was too high..... 
 
We'll have to ask Shahrose to weigh in, he knows almost everything about modded hifaces.....

 

[Audioexcels]

Stock Hiface is quite high but I don't have any issues with it personally, though I can definitely see issues with a system that has a different gain structure than mine.  Interesting news on the different driver.  Is this new driver applicable for ALL Hiface units???  I'll definitely give it a try and see how or what it does with the stock device.  
 
One thing I found interesting was in a review with three different USB DAC's, including the Sabre one that John made.  The reviewer did not feel that any of these USB dacs were on the same playing field as using an external one, but that there was a great synergy between using one of the DAC's hooked to the MKIII which resulted in an excellent sound.  

 

[Shahrose]

I ended up reverting back to the stock HiFace driver. Not my cup of tea. The sound is warmer and smoother (in a certain range of the treble) but more grainy and forward in the upper midrange. The soundstage is also more up-front.
 
As for the outputs, the stock HiFace did have an overly high SPDIF signal level. The MK3 has a reduced SPDIF signal (within spec) and retains the 75ohm output. IME, the attenuators have varying effects depending on the DAC used. I didn't have a very positive experience with attenuators on the MK1 and MK2.
 

 

[drez]

hmm I haven't noticed that yet, but I have also been playing with a new music software.  I might switch back to the standard drivers and see what I notice.
 
EDIT: seems the changes to bass response are down to the new drivers, but I actually prefer it this way, but some may find it too warm.  The added smoothness to me is welcome also, as it comes without any loss of articulation or detail.

 

[drez]

Have changed back to stock drivers as they are more neutral than Young DAC drivers, although they are fun for a change I think the hit to the soundstage is a definite deal breaker.

 

[Audioexcels]

Maybe it's just me, but I found the Young driver to be just about an opposite of the stock driver in the sense that it is shouting out the treble/midrange, and loses the bass response vs. the stock Hiface that sounds WAY more mellow likely due to much more bass filled in.  But the most problematic thing I have with the Young driver is the soundstage seems to shift to the left too much.  That center of focus for the music information like vocals that should be dead center are now off a bit. The sound is also a bit computerized or that someone is trying to alter the sound of the natural flow of the original and forcing it to sound different and unlike the original.
 
I would say the dvd is more natural, but the Hiface with that hot signal is able to get the detail hotter to the ears, so it's really a give/take type of a situation where musical pacing with both is quite even, though I think I could really choose either...soundstage again, very even.  Detail just a bit more on the Hiface due to more signal (i.e. I turn my preamp up more since it was late last night and I didn't have a chance to get the music louder), and I can match that level the Hiface is putting out so the dvd player sounds identically detailed/clear in that treble/mid region.
 
All in all, I have to say the external dac has the majority of what we hear and the transport is only there to relay the feed...any differences we hear are just differences rather than one transport being better than another, etc.  But on the dac side of things, if that is not working correctly, I'm certain one could hear differences in transports VERY EASILY.  

This all said, both Drez and Shahrose heard a more mellow sound with the Young driver vs. me hearing a far more in your face with treble/midrange and weaker/lesser bass sound with the stock driver.