[Typhoon859]

Quote:

E12's boost is nowhere near 6dB. It's closer to 4dB, if even that.
 
And it doesn't seem to boost anything beyond 150Hz. Any boost that goes beyond 250Hz would unfortunately bleeds into lower midrange, and I don't think that's favorable, unless you have a superbly cold and sterile headphone.

Where did any of those numbers come from?.........  Are you using your ears and determining an estimate of how much boost there is and past what frequency it stops affecting?...  If they've implemented a near 6 dB boost then a near 6 dB boost it is. Not only do your cans influence the difference you're perceiving, there's no way to come out and just say that there is exactly this amount of frequency boost vs. whatever other value (especially when it's so generalized), and the volume that you listen at highly affects the relative decibel value as well.  I'm not sure what you were trying to prove with your post.  At least if I knew that, I'd then also know what to respond to and be able to disregard the blatant lack of self-doubt.  With no intent to offend, treat this more as a question than a dismissal.  Try and assess why you stated those approximations as you did and get back to us with that.  I'd actually like to know if there's anything behind that.  
 
I wasn't making an argument that having tested the E12, I perceived way too much of a boost in low frequencies (for my headphones) - nor should I have...  The only thing to possibly debate on that front is how well it's implemented (e.g. your mention of when bass boost goes past the 250 Hz range, it often messes up the balance).  
 
EDIT: And btw, I'm mostly referring to the new curve and it's actually closer to 5 rather than 6 as I have been mentioning.  That doesn't change anything I've said as initially it just stuck out this way (as 6 dB) because of the instant association I had/have of 6 dB translating into twice the pressure.

 

[Bill-P]

I played back a frequency sweep from 20Hz to 200Hz and measured the average decibel value with my phone. (there's an app for that)
 
To further verify it, I also generated the same frequency sweep at different dB levels (attenuating to -12dB, -10dB, -8dB, -6dB, and -4dB, then A/B'ed them, and -6dB w/o boost + -10dB w/ boost seemed to be the closest to what E12 does.
 
It's not just one headphone. I have tried E12 with 4 different headphones up to this point (and many more at the upcoming SF Bay Area meet) with the A/B comparison, and it all turned out to be the same. The boost is not that extreme at all.
 
If you don't believe me, I can get people to chime in from the SF Bay Area meet. Really, the bass boost on E12 isn't a dramatic boost. I think your ears are just way too sensitive.

 

[Typhoon859]

Quote:

I played back a frequency sweep from 20Hz to 200Hz and measured the average decibel value with my phone. (there's an app for that)
 
To further verify it, I also generated the same frequency sweep at different dB levels (attenuating to -12dB, -10dB, -8dB, -6dB, and -4dB, then A/B'ed them, and -6dB w/o boost + -10dB w/ boost seemed to be the closest to what E12 does.
 
It's not just one headphone. I have tried E12 with 4 different headphones up to this point (and many more at the upcoming SF Bay Area meet) with the A/B comparison, and it all turned out to be the same. The boost is not that extreme at all.
 
If you don't believe me, I can get people to chime in from the SF Bay Area meet. Really, the bass boost on E12 isn't a dramatic boost. I think your ears are just way too sensitive.

I haven't actually heard the amp itself before but I've heard what is the supposed boost before (the one that I thought it was).  I knew what it would sound like.  There's a few very important things I overlooked since my first post about the bass boost, and as it turns out, you are absolutely right.  The accuracy of the proposed graph after bass boost as listed by FiiO may be a different story, but in the end, in terms of how much it boosts, I'd wager the suggested amount would be right/accurate enough.  
 
EDIT: You seem to have seen that post I linked.  I'm not sure you picked up on its entailment.  As I mentioned here about it, I agree with you.

 

[Bill-P]

Yeah, I posted that before reading the other thread. Sorry.
 
I'll write up a more detailed comparison with other portable amps I encounter tomorrow. And also, I will write about how the E12 pairs with different headphones. I'm anticipating these now:
 
Audio Technica A900X
Beyerdynamic DT880 (250 Ohm version? Hopefully I'll encounter a 600 Ohm as well)
Sennheiser HD 600
Sennheiser HD 650
Audeze LCD-2 (hopefully someone will let me plug theirs into this tiny amp)
Hifiman HE-400
V-Moda M100
 
And I'll make sure to note people's reactions to the E12 as well, since I may be biased toward the E12 after owning it for so long.

 

[pngwn]

If you encounter an AD900X, please share your impressions in the pairing!

 

[Bill-P]

Well, no AD900X, sadly.
 
But good news is... I was able to listen to a lot of headphones today, and I plugged a great deal of them into the E12 and O2.
 
Including the HD 800.
 
And I must admit, I was wrong. O2 was the better overall amp, as it paired effortlessly with more headphones than the E12. But for the select few headphones that the E12 was able to do well with, it was clearly better than the O2.
 
I'll edit the first post with the details.

 

[pngwn]

Ah, that's unfortunate. Given how new the ADX series is, though, I'm not surprised.

 

[Bill-P]

Yeah...
 
But I should note that the A900X that I listened to also sounded a lot more "closed" than I originally thought. I knew they were closed-back headphones, but they sounded even more "closed" and warmer than my ES10. I know for sure the AD900X is nothing like that. It's a lot more "open" and clearer.
 
Anyway, first post updated with the comparison.

 

[Chris J]

Yeah, I posted that before reading the other thread. Sorry.

I'll write up a more detailed comparison with other portable amps I encounter tomorrow. And also, I will write about how the E12 pairs with different headphones. I'm anticipating these now:

Audio Technica A900X
Beyerdynamic DT880 (250 Ohm version? Hopefully I'll encounter a 600 Ohm as well)
Sennheiser HD 600
Sennheiser HD 650
Audeze LCD-2 (hopefully someone will let me plug theirs into this tiny amp)
Hifiman HE-400
V-Moda M100

And I'll make sure to note people's reactions to the E12 as well, since I may be biased toward the E12 after owning it for so long.

Nice thread.

I like the O2 and DT880 comments. Sounds like the E12 would work well with my ATH-ESW10 Japans.

 

[Bill-P]

Thanks, Chris!
 
I updated the first post with some thoughts about the newly acquired C421. To my surprise, it sounded a lot different from the C421 that I had.

 

[Craigster75]

Quote:

Thanks, Chris!
 
I updated the first post with some thoughts about the newly acquired C421. To my surprise, it sounded a lot different from the C421 that I had.

Fantastic comparisons that indicate to me that the E12 sounds as good as it looks IMO and as good as I hoped.  Would it be asking too much to include the Headstage Arrow 12HE in this comparison, or do you feel it is priced at a level that one should expect it to perform at a superior level to the E12?

 

[waynes world]

Yup - thanks for updating the OP with your ongoing impressions. So the E12 is still a winner. I should be getting mine any day, so I'll finally be able to have first hand experience with it

 

[Bill-P]

I think this is about the end of it, though. I have a C421 now instead of an E12, so it'll be quite hard to compare E12 with anything else going forward.
 
I edited the thread title to reflect the comparisons. Hopefully someone will find it useful.
 
And by the way, even as I am enjoying the lush and super clean C421, the bass quality of E12 is very sorely missed. So yeah, I think it's a winner. I'm not a basshead, but even then, I really appreciate the bass quality of E12. 

 

[waynes world]

Yes, it is precisely the e12 v1 bass quality that I'm looking forward to. I love the ad900x's, but the e12 bass boost will take them over the edge

 

[SteveSatch]

I don't think there's a real winner between the C421 and E12.  They are both great, but there are differences.
 
The E12 has more power and the bass is cleaner and better integrated with the mids.  But, the thing is a brick.  It's barely a portable amp.  The volume knob is too stiff.  It's impossible to use with a Fiio L9 LOD.  I thought the crossfeed would be fun to play with but the recessed button that requires a pin or something to move it means I won't be switching it back and forth and it really reduces the soundstage which isn't that big to begin with.
 
The C421 really is a portable amp.  But, it doesn't feel as durable as the E12.  It does has better soundstage and more airiness that the E12.
 
There's nits to pick with both, but I could be very happy with either as my amp.  I think I'd rather have both than either even though I'm not one to spend the time unstrapping and changing amps and lack the funds to keep multiple amps  : ) 
 
It's up to the individual sound tastes, portability needs, and the headphones you pair with them.  I use Brainwavz HM5.