[TBEagl]

Quote:

i speak...
 
in regards to the bass. 
please note. no burn in. opened the case, put it on my ears, and played a few tracks. turned into a 3 hr listening session. forgot i had it on.
 
hm5 with no amp = slightly boomy bass. contained in it's own little section. (i know i said don't pay too much attention to the graph but i'm thinking of that 300hz dip). probably amplified in hans's ears because of being accustomed to those darn modded t50 rp's. the hm5 is only $140 US. everything else is clear.
 
hm5 with a measly e5 amp = bass is controlled and tight. high end slightly harsh at first listen. but only with "modern rap/hip-hop" so maybe those are being mastered with slightly bassy headphones. idk. time will tell with that high.
 
subbass. TO MY EARS. it's there. but. that cello doesn't sound quite right. it's got that good car audio with no subwoofer kind of subbass. but then again. the brainwavz m4 iems have kinda spoiled me with subbass that's just right.
 
P.S. covering those vents hans spoke of with my fingers made the sound "plasticy" to my ears but definitely less bass like he said.
and. separation didn't blow me away like i wanted it to. but it's preeeetty good.
 
AND REMEMBER. NOT BURNED IN YET.

http://www.head-fi.org/t/491632/review-fischer-audio-fa-003-a-neutral-champ/105#post_6764639
if these are identical to the FAs then they'll open up after some more burn in. Ironically I've been following the FAs since LFF post his review but never got the chance the buy them until now

 

[dragon2knight]

Okay,time to chime in a bit more here. I now have my own personal pair of HM5's(for over a week plus now),and havent heard that "bass hump" on either the first pair I reviewed or this pair...so I really dont know what hans03039 is talking about here. You may have gotten a bad pair,it happens. As for you modding after only 50 hours of burn in,while its your choice to do so,you should have given it longer to see if that problem you are having clears up some.
As for your claim that everyone else on here that is reviewing the HM5's are "over hyping" these...that is a very poor term to throw around.  Just because YOU think these sound a bit off from what others have said about them,dosent make you the expert here...sorry,but thats just the truth. Every one else on here and elsewhere find these to be fine neutral sounding headphones that are well above their price class, and saying we "over hyped" them is, quite frankly to me, insulting. Please choose your words better in the future..
As for what neutral sounds like to me,well,I own a studio for over 20 years,and have been mastering tracks for over 15 of those years. Neutrality is essential in doing this,so I have developed a "good ear", as they say, that stresses neutrality above all else. I have chosen my studio headphones accordingly. The HM5's are a fine pair of neutral cans to my ears, and I find them to be amazing for the price,nothing more nothing less. Are there better out there? Of course! Are there better for the price? I dont think so,and I really think that says all there is to say about these. For the price paid I dont think you will find a better set of studio monitors. 

 

[hans030390]

Quote:

hm5 with no amp = slightly boomy bass. contained in it's own little section. (i know i said don't pay too much attention to the graph but i'm thinking of that 300hz dip). probably amplified in hans's ears because of being accustomed to those darn modded t50 rp's. the hm5 is only $140 US. everything else is clear.
 
P.S. covering those vents hans spoke of with my fingers made the sound "plasticy" to my ears but definitely less bass like he said.
and. separation didn't blow me away like i wanted it to. but it's preeeetty good.

Yes, covering the vents is not a perfect solution. It does add other oddities to the sound, unfortunately, but I felt it brought them closer to a neutral sound than stock. I do think my opinions are a bit skewed because of my modded T50RPs. I can't prove that mine sound wonderful, but I think people would begin to see this bloated bass I'm talking about once they've heard a properly modded pair of T50RPs. The T50RPs simply sound better in almost every way possible, minus the pure bass extension. Might be an entirely unfair comparison, or I could just be crazy. 
 
Quote:

Okay,time to chime in a bit more here. I now have my own personal pair of HM5's(for over a week plus now),and havent heard that "bass hump" on either the first pair I reviewed or this pair...so I really dont know what hans03039 is talking about here. You may have gotten a bad pair,it happens. As for you modding after only 50 hours of burn in,while its your choice to do so,you should have given it longer to see if that problem you are having clears up some.
As for your claim that everyone else on here that is reviewing the HM5's are "over hyping" these...that is a very poor term to throw around.  Just because YOU think these sound a bit off from what others have said about them,dosent make you the expert here...sorry,but thats just the truth. Every one else on here and elsewhere find these to be fine neutral sounding headphones that are well above their price class, and saying we over hyped them is, quite frankly to me, insulting. Please choose your words better, please.

It is very possible that I've gotten a bad pair, but what I'm hearing does match the measurements for the FA-003. Perhaps you don't quite understand the mods I did to them? Many people have done them to the FA-003 and found it brought improvements. I simply swapped the original dampening felt for something better, Dynamat and Silverstone acoustic foam on top of that. To be honest, I noticed very little change in the sound compared to stock with these mods. I also didn't really detect changes in these after 50 hours. I highly doubt more burn in will make an audible difference, and I don't place much faith in it for most headphones to begin with. I will probably burn them in longer, just to see. The mods did not change their sound signature, so that won't be a problem.
 
I also never claimed to be an expert on this. I was simply stating my impressions of the headphones and trying to provide objective evidence that what I was hearing was in fact there to some extent based on measurements for the FA-003. I am not attacking anyone for liking how these sound. They aren't bad at all, but I simply don't hear how these sound "well above their price class" or are "neutral". So, yes, I would called these over-hyped. I think a lot of the impressions people have here are based off impressions other people have given the headphones, which are based off impressions other people are given, which...you get the idea. I apologize for taking a step back and judging these headphones completely on my own regard with objective measurements to back my findings rather than the impressions of other people.
 
Like I've said, maybe I'm just spoiled by my modded T50RPs. Most headphones sound strange in comparison, and I have acknowledged that my impressions may not be entirely fair. 
 
But, apparently people are insulted that I have an opinion, and a different one at that! Not sure why everyone takes a different opinion as a personal attack. Yes, I try to defend my opinion, and yes, I use measurements to back that up. I am sorry if that upsets people. I have no qualms with others having a different opinion than me, so long as they respect mine and understand where I'm coming from. I've tried to make myself very clear in this regard. If you don't hear what I'm hearing, even after taking my words into consideration, then more power to you. Neither of our lives have changed by the fact that we hear a pair of headphones differently.
 
I have no issues with people liking these at all, but I think I have some valid points in my impressions that should be considered openly. Not sure why it's bad for me to disagree with the majority, but it's OK for the majority to disagree with me. If we want to talk about things being insulting, it's how people tend to treat others on this forum when their opinion of something is "different" or falls in the minority.
 
I'm also not sure why so many people think it's a sin to be so objective in impressions (such as my usage of frequency response graphs). Not hearing something on a graph doesn't mean it's not there. I didn't hear the 3-5KHz dip in my open-back modded D2000s, but the hard data shows it is there. I am sure that once I get them back, it will be much easier to pick up on the imperfections in the sound. Our brains are not the best at this without help, to be honest. Our brains do a GREAT job into fooling ourselves into thinking, seeing, hearing, tasting, or sensing something differently than how it truly is.
 
If it makes everyone feel better and less threatened, I can hear how people would consider these neutral or not hear that bass hump and 300Hz dip. But, when compared to headphones that do not exhibit this quality, it is quite apparent. Everything else about them sounds great, really, from a price perspective. Still, I find them to be quite competitive in their price range rather than competitive with much higher-priced headphones. I'm not hearing anything in these that would make me quickly recommend them over the HD598, for example.
 

 

[keanex]

I'm not exactly how this works, I can hear the slightest noise at every frequency on the bottom, even if it's just the smallest rumble. I'm going to go from when the tone sounds like a weird tone rather than the lowest rumble, which I guess is what I'm supposed to do. I'll do this in a little with my Ad900.

 

[hans030390]

Quote:

I'm not exactly how this works, I can hear the slightest noise at every frequency on the bottom, even if it's just the smallest rumble. I'm going to go from when the tone sounds like a weird tone rather than the lowest rumble, which I guess is what I'm supposed to do. I'll do this in a little with my Ad900.

Slightly bloated bass aside (in my opinion, as always), it is actually pretty nice in this regard. Nice bass detail, texture, etc. It's not a "one note" bass sound. I noticed this coming from my modded T50RPs and was impressed.
 

 

[dragon2knight]

Well,sorry if you think I didnt like your opinion,I just think its wrong,and thats MY opinion  I judged my initial review,which was the first one I might add on the HM5's,on nothing more than what I thought they sounded like. I never even heard of the FA-003's until someone mentioned them to me AFTER I did my review. 
I can make a solid judgement on what a neutral sounding set of cans sound like,and did just that in my review. Your admitting that just because something cant be heard but seen on a chart can somehow  color the sound is quite telling of how you judge a set of headphones imho. Charts and measures are good for comparing a similar set of cans,not for judging how a set of cans actually sound to the human ear. maybe you should do more actual LISTENING and a bit less ANALYZING...you might actually enjoy your headphones a bit more.Again,just my opinion.

 

[atomikn00b]

slight sound leakage out. just a bit. enough to get the outline of what you're listening to but that's it.
on the head, it's basically about the same leakage as if you push the two cups close together
only loud sounds go in though.
 
and. that bass i originally said was slightly boomy without amp. is not boomy. it's clean and clear. just prominent at pretty much the same level as the rest of the spectrum.
 
p.s. i slept with them on. i felt the clamp at first but it disappeared after about a minute and adjusting the band.

 

[draven5494]

I assume that the FA-003's velour pads will fit these?  I am currently burning in my pair but I can already tell that these clamp pretty tightly and I really think velour pads would help a bit with the comfort factor.  

 

[paulkemp]

Quote:

...
and. that bass i originally said was slightly boomy without amp. is not boomy. it's clean and clear. just prominent at pretty much the same level as the rest of the spectrum.
 
p.s. i slept with them on. i felt the clamp at first but it disappeared after about a minute and adjusting the band.

 
OK, you said you had the FiiO e5? Does the sound improve while using it? Since they have quite low impediance i mean. Regards
 
 

 

[kingpage]

Quote:

 

 
What dragon2knight was saying was that you shouldn't be disregarding how others think of the HM5s by saying they are over-hyping the product. Just because you prefer you modded T50RPs more, it doesn't mean the HM5s are not neutral or not as good. People have different preferences in sound signature; even top-tier headphones can be hated by some people so it shouldn't be too hard to understand that concept.
 
In fact, there's nothing wrong with you saying how HM5s are not up to your standard. You might even go as far as saying they are worth nothing more than 20 bucks, and nobody would have any qualms with that personal opinion. But when you say that the reviewers are over-hyping a product, then you're crossing the line. What you can say without offending anyone is "I don't think they are as good as my modded T50RPs".
 
These reviews were written by people who own AD900, HD600, etc, for A/B comparison, they are in no way hyping, let alone over-hyping. If anything, you're underrating HM5s. The way I see it is, they are over-hyping as much as you are under-appreciating, if that makes any sense. As far as I can tell, that is certainly not that case here, or else why would you spend so much time trying to improve your HM5s.
 
Suppose I was disappointed with HM5s, I wouldn't want to say all the other owners were wrong in their opinion. That's just a textbook example of some headphones not meeting someone's tastes.
 
Let's just say HM5s are not for you, end of story, and move on, you could either keep them as a backup pair or sell them here. I'm sure many people would be happy to buy them from you for around the price you paid.
 
 
Quote:

I assume that the FA-003's velour pads will fit these?  I am currently burning in my pair but I can already tell that these clamp pretty tightly and I really think velour pads would help a bit with the comfort factor.  

Let them stretch on a pile of books or something that's the size of your head. Then they won't clamp as hard.

 

[hans030390]

Quote:

Well,sorry if you think I didnt like your opinion,I just think its wrong,and thats MY opinion  I judged my initial review,which was the first one I might add on the HM5's,on nothing more than what I thought they sounded like. I never even heard of the FA-003's until someone mentioned them to me AFTER I did my review. 
I can make a solid judgement on what a neutral sounding set of cans sound like,and did just that in my review. Your admitting that just because something cant be heard but seen on a chart can somehow  color the sound is quite telling of how you judge a set of headphones imho. Charts and measures are good for comparing a similar set of cans,not for judging how a set of cans actually sound to the human ear. maybe you should do more actual LISTENING and a bit less ANALYZING...you might actually enjoy your headphones a bit more.Again,just my opinion.

Measurements are great for judging headphones in and of themselves, not just comparing between sets. A lot of effort goes into making sure measurements match what the human ear would hear as closely as possible. I am fairly scientifically minded, so measurements are incredibly valuable to me. That said, given that measurements can't exactly account for how someone will hear something individually, I listen first before going to the measurements. People are biased. Brains do weird things. Measurements aren't biased, opinionated, or re-interpret the sound due to a silly brain. 
 
I'm not sure how my usage of measurements gives you much information on how I judge headphones and audio, other than the fact that I take more of an objective approach to all of it than some. Have you ever seen an optical illusion? They can easily fool your brain into thinking you're seeing something that you're really not. Once the illusion is pointed out, it may become apparent what is actually there. Now, which is more accurate: your brain seeing the illusion, or your brain seeing what was truly there after the illusion was revealed to you?
 
Similarly, people can mishear the "true" sound of something (for a variety of reasons). Measurements do a great job of pointing out spots our brains and ears might "gloss over". If you hear something differently after seeing hard data that points something out to you, there is a good chance you're hearing it more accurately than before you took a look at the measurements.
 
Too long, didn't read: Brains are crazy.
 
Also, you probably shouldn't assume I don't spend enough time "listening" vs "analyzing". I literally will take hours out of my day sometimes to simply sit and melt into my music with my listening sessions. I played piano for 9 years, guitar for 3-4, and am a pretty decent vocalist (or so I've been told by other musicians). I am extremely passionate about music and as such lean towards a more musical than analytical side when it comes to listening. If you think I'm taking an analytical approach to my listening, you'd be scared at how far some people really take it. But, as I've said, I do also have a very scientific side that factors into all of this. So long as one is getting true enjoyment out of something, that is what matters.
 
Quote:

I assume that the FA-003's velour pads will fit these?  I am currently burning in my pair but I can already tell that these clamp pretty tightly and I really think velour pads would help a bit with the comfort factor.  

Yep, the HM5s are clones of the FA-003. They'll fit.
 
Here's an easier way to solve the clamping problem: Find a box, a set of books, or anything that is at least as wide, if not wider, than your head. Place the headphones on this like you would with your head for long while. I normally do this while burning in headphones. Basically, you just want to stretch them out so they don't clamp as tight.
 
Edit: kingpage beat me to it!

 

[hans030390]

Quote:

What dragon2knight was saying was that you shouldn't be disregarding how others think of the HM5s by saying they are over-hyping the product. Just because you prefer you modded T50RPs more, it doesn't mean the HM5s are not neutral or not as good. People have different preferences in sound signature; even top-tier headphones can be hated by some people so it shouldn't be too hard to understand that concept.
 
These reviews were written by people who own AD900, HD600 for A/B comparison, they are in no way hyping, let alone over-hyping. If anything, you're underrating HM5s. The way I see it is, they are over-hyping as much as you are under-appreciating, if that makes any sense. As far as I can tell, that is certainly not that case here, or else why would you spend so much time trying to improve your HM5s.
 
Suppose I was disappointed with HM5s, I wouldn't want to say all the other owners were wrong in their opinion. That's just a textbook example of some headphones not meeting someone's tastes.
 
Let's just say HM5s are not for you and move on, you could either keep them as a backup pair or sell them here. I'm sure many people would be happy to buy them from you for around the price you paid.

I've never said anyone was "wrong" outright. I've stated my opinion that I think people are over somewhat exaggerating the neutrality of these headphones due to how large of a role the 300Hz dip and lower bass hump plays in the overall sound. Measurements show these individual attributes exist, but how large of a role it plays in the sound is entirely up to your ears and your brain. If I'm the only one that hears it, so be it. It's no skin off my back.
 
I've also contested that I don't think these entirely fall in the range of higher-end headphones based on my previous experience with the HD598. For example, you can find the HD598 for around $175, and the HM5s retail for $140. I would not call the HM5 better or worse than the HD598 from a pure technicality standpoint (can't judge on personal tastes here), so I would say the HM5s are very competitive in their price range rather than worth a lot more than they cost. In that way, yes, I do think people are over-hyping them. If they sound better than headphones costing much, much more, it's probably the case that those headphones are overly expensive rather than actually being worth their price. They might have been worth that price back in the day, perhaps.
 
Does my opinion change the way someone thinks about the HM5s? Maybe, maybe not. Does it really matter for either party? Absolutely not.
 
I've also said over and over than I am, if anything, underrating my HM5s from the start. I've blatantly stated that my impressions probably aren't entirely fair. Is no one reading what I'm saying? Whether or not my modded T50RPs technically sound better than the HM5s (I'd have to do measurements), they sound better to my ears in nearly every regard. No contest. That's a common thing to hear about modded T50RPs, though. So, yes, my impressions are skewed. I've said this already. But, still, that doesn't change that fact that these seem to be more or less on the same level as headphones like the HD598. From a pure value standpoint, the modded T50RPs for $125 + a few hours modding make the HM5s retail price of $140 look much less appealing.
 
I really didn't take much time to improve my HM5s. The whole modding process took well under an hour to complete. I only modded them because A) People said it made them sound better and B) I was disappointed by them and wanted to see if mods would improve them like people said. The mods are also technically reversible, though Dynamat is a royal pain to remove from a surface!
 
I think if everyone carefully reads everything I've said, I make it quite clear that I am not attacking anyone's opinions and probably have unfair impressions to begin with. Consider it from my standpoint, though. I offer my genuine impressions while offering objective evidence to back them up rather than pure subjective opinions. Suddenly, everyone thinks I am against them, when I am not. It's not the best feeling in the world to have a different thought on something (with data and evidence to back it up) only to be shot down because it's not the commonly accepted opinion.
 
I apologize if anyone thought I was attacking them, insulting them...you name it. My words may come off as much more "harsh" than they are in reality, which is one downside to having conversations via text rather than in person. It's very easy to misinterpret someone's attitude in these situations, and so I'm sorry if I come off more strongly than I really intend to.
 
 

 

[dragon2knight]

You make some good points,and I will leave it at this:
I still dont like the fact you say I(and others)have "over hyped " these(that is my main beef with you,not your opinion of the HM5's themselves)...its simply our opinion of how the HM5's sound,like yours is your opinion of how they sound. I'm a musician for over 40 of my 46 years(no joke),and own a studio over 20 years,so I think I have a little bit of experience with sound as well,but I'm not as scientific as you are,just blunt and honest with how I see it. We may never agree on this and thats fine with me,the whole point of reviews is to get different opinions and to hopefully make a good decision based on that. 
Quote:

Quote:

Measurements are great for judging headphones in and of themselves, not just comparing between sets. A lot of effort goes into making sure measurements match what the human ear would hear as closely as possible. I am fairly scientifically minded, so measurements are incredibly valuable to me. That said, given that measurements can't exactly account for how someone will hear something individually, I listen first before going to the measurements. People are biased. Brains do weird things. Measurements aren't biased, opinionated, or re-interpret the sound due to a silly brain. 
 
I'm not sure how my usage of measurements gives you much information on how I judge headphones and audio, other than the fact that I take more of an objective approach to all of it than some. Have you ever seen an optical illusion? They can easily fool your brain into thinking you're seeing something that you're really not. Once the illusion is pointed out, it may become apparent what is actually there. Now, which is more accurate: your brain seeing the illusion, or your brain seeing what was truly there after the illusion was revealed to you?
 
Similarly, people can mishear the "true" sound of something (for a variety of reasons). Measurements do a great job of pointing out spots our brains and ears might "gloss over". If you hear something differently after seeing hard data that points something out to you, there is a good chance you're hearing it more accurately than before you took a look at the measurements.
 
Too long, didn't read: Brains are crazy.
 
Also, you probably shouldn't assume I don't spend enough time "listening" vs "analyzing". I literally will take hours out of my day sometimes to simply sit and melt into my music with my listening sessions. I played piano for 9 years, guitar for 3-4, and am a pretty decent vocalist (or so I've been told by other musicians). I am extremely passionate about music and as such lean towards a more musical than analytical side when it comes to listening. If you think I'm taking an analytical approach to my listening, you'd be scared at how far some people really take it. But, as I've said, I do also have a very scientific side that factors into all of this. So long as one is getting true enjoyment out of something, that is what matters.
 
Quote:

Yep, the HM5s are clones of the FA-003. They'll fit.
 
Here's an easier way to solve the clamping problem: Find a box, a set of books, or anything that is at least as wide, if not wider, than your head. Place the headphones on this like you would with your head for long while. I normally do this while burning in headphones. Basically, you just want to stretch them out so they don't clamp as tight.
 
Edit: kingpage beat me to it!

 

 

[tedkalaw]

Quote:

Would Anybody be interested in doing this hearing test with their HM5s and another pair of headphones. http://www.digital-recordings.com/cgi-bin/www-ht-pro.cgi
Remember to choose manual instead of auto, after the calibration. You also have the option to change from 5dB to 1dB increments.
 
Pianist did the test with his FA-003s, SRH750 DJ and SM3. Here's the post.

 
I can give these a shot with ATH-M50's, though I'm by no means experienced.
 

 

[manveru]

Honestly I have to back up hans030390 on the sound, as I've been hearing exactly the same thing, and that's without modded T50RP's to compare to. It doesn't bother me as much perhaps, but it's there nonetheless. I do think that some of the reviews were just a bit overly positive. I'm not trying to bash them, they're great headphones and I'm really enjoying them, but they are not completely flawless either. I think if they actually did cost $300 peoples' tone/expectations would have been a little different.