[rodgerdodger]

Hi
 
I recently got a pair of beyer Tesla T1 without auditioning them and im quite disappointed for flagship headphones. They have no bass presence.
 
My other headphones are DT770 pro and they have no problem reproducing 200hz and below. The T1s cant get anywhere near the 770 they just fizzle out.
 
Im testing with pure sine waves through my presonous firebox interface to ensure accuracy, unlesss its a case of hte T1s being under driven, which i doubt as they can go ear piercingly loud, just pretty much no bass.
 
So im thinking of moving on from beyerdynamic and perhaps audeze or hifiman. I ant a pair or studio headphones that are accurate but can have very good bass presence.
 
thanks

 

[WraithApe]

Sounds to me like they are being under-driven. I owned a pair of T1s myself for over a year and had no complaints about the bass quantity. Measurements I've seen don't support the idea that there is significant low-end roll-off either. A thin, or lean sound is often an indication that the headphones are being under-powered. I don't know if it's a portable amp you're using but I never really found a single portable I thought was up to the job with the T1. There are portables that should be theoretically capable, but I always thought they sounded far better powered with a desktop amp with serious gain.
 
IMO the T1 is not a bass-lite can - overly bright for my tastes, but not lacking bass. I suppose we all have different ideas of what constitutes significant bass presence though; I'm certainly no basshead, but do appreciate a bit of slam - for listening to electronic music, in particular - and always felt the T1 delivered in that respect.
 
You might see whether you can audition a pair of LCD-X - from what you're saying, they sound like they might fit the bill. Accurate, with good bass presence. They're also highly efficient and very easy to drive. The only thing I don't like about them is the weight on the head.

 

[rodgerdodger]

Thanks for the detailed response much appreciated. This is what I've been thinking that perhaps they are under driven. is it possible for underdriven headphones to be able to go quite loud but not have Bass.

People seem to state if headphones can go loud it means you don't need an amp.

Tested them on the presonous Firebox and minimon speaker Matrix headphone output. The dt770 250ohm sound fine on both of these

 

[WraithApe]

Yes, it's not quite as simple as loud = enough power. There are other considerations, primarily the sensitivity and impedance of the headphone you're driving. The combination of the two gives you the efficiency. The greater the efficiency, the easier they are to drive. I don't know the DT770 but I suspect it's a more efficient headphone than the T1 and requires less voltage swing from the amp.
 
In answer to your question though, it is possible for under-powered headphones to be loud enough, but lacking in other areas. Haven't really got time to go into more detail right now, but you might find this thread on Reddit a useful starting point for further reading.

 

[Monsterzero]

I owned the 1st gen T1 for two years,coupled it with a WA2 amp and was always left wanting more bass impact as well,so I feel OPs pain.

I went to the HE-500 +a vintage receiver and havent looked back since.

 

[Music Alchemist]

HIFIMAN headphones have a high degree of accuracy with generally linear bass extension. I owned the HE400i and have heard the HE6 and HE1000. Personally I prefer STAX: even more neutral, lower distortion, rapid transient response, yada yada. It would be best if you could audition all the models you can at meets or shops before making a decision. Regardless of what you go with, you should use a parametric equalizer to get a more accurate frequency response.

 

[Verde]

I went to the HE-500 +a vintage receiver and havent looked back since.

 
I have to agree. The HE-500 when driven well, I use the Lake People G109A, sound very clear and accurate. The bass on the HE-500 is present but not distracting at any point. Man, I love orthos especially when they build up you neck muscles.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Man, I love orthos especially when they build up you neck muscles.

 
Know what's weird? I didn't really feel the HE400i's weight in my neck, but I did feel it in my back. (It's a bit lighter than the HE500, but not by much.)

 

[Verde]

When I was first researching them I heard how heavy they were on the neck and how uncomfortable the the ear pads were. I used to wrestle in high school, many moons ago, but I still have a decently strong neck from all those neck bridges so the weight didn't bother my neck too much. Also, the stock velour pads were not too terrible either. The focus A pads are just way better. My problem with the HE-500 is that darn headband. It sits on my scalp like an angry sumo butt made of sandpaper. I keep telling myself to just break down and buy one of those crochet thingys on Amazon, but I never do it. 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  When I was first researching them I heard how heavy they were on the neck and how uncomfortable the the ear pads were. I used to wrestle in high school, many moons ago, but I still have a decently strong neck from all those neck bridges so the weight didn't bother my neck too much. Also, the stock velour pads were not too terrible either. The focus A pads are just way better. My problem with the HE-500 is that darn headband. It sits on my scalp like an angry sumo butt made of sandpaper. I keep telling myself to just break down and buy one of those crochet thingys on Amazon, but I never do it. 

 
Interesting coincidence! I wrestled in high school as well. I have a pretty weak neck, though, which is why I was surprised at the lack of discomfort for me in that area. Even the HE6 felt perfectly comfortable, though I didn't wear it for hours.

 

[thatonenoob]

The T1 can be driven to have a good visceral bass...I gave the Feliks Audio Espressivo a go recently and it's an example of a fairly cheap amp that can do that. I believe the Elise could do this even better. K812 might be a similarly option. If you want to jump into the deep end try the th900. Sooo much bass. Goos bass too, might I add

 

[rodgerdodger]

Thanks ill have a read through. Getting a bit confused a few things. perhaps someone can help me here
 
Headhpones are rated as
-----------------------------------
Impedance . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 600 Ω
Nominal SPL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 102 dB (1 mW / 500 Hz)
Power handling capacity . . . . . . . . . 300 mW
Max. SPL . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 126 dB (300 mW / 500 Hz)
-----------------------------------
 
Presonous Interface is
-----------------------------------
Max Output:150 mW/CH @ 60 Ohm Load
-----------------------------------
 
Behringer Mon800 is
-----------------------------------
Max output: 10dBu / 100Ohm (70mW)
-----------------------------------
 
 
The headphones max output is 126dB 300mW with 500Hz tone but can get to 102dB with 1mW
 
Presnous - will only be able to output 15mW max to these headphones
Behringer - will only be able to output 11mW max to these headphones

 

[Joe Bloggs]

rodgerdodger If you're using a signal generator you can note the exact point at which numerous bass frequencies begin to be underdriven by the amp and/or overload the headphones by holding the frequency constant (say at 20Hz to start with) and keep pushing up the volume until you hear the signal start to break up from the pure tone that it ought to be. At 20-30Hz this tends to happen at moderate volumes, but only because our ears are so insensitive to such low frequencies to start with. Starting at 60Hz or so you ought to be able to go silly loud before breakup occurs, at 100Hz or so you basically can't make it happen without hurting your ears or taking the headphones off your head and pretending they're loudspeakers.

If the above profile fits with your experience, then no, the headphones aren't being underdriven, and also, per Music Alchemist's advice, you can get them to sound plenty bassy if you slot in a parametric equalizer into your playback chain.

 

[rodgerdodger]

If I low pass eq it up itdoes nothing. Just fizzles out before it's decent sounding

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Don't touch the EQ yet for the tone testing. Just push up the system volume or the signal generator output volume, or turn the volume knob on your Presonus. EQing in general can't be used to boost volume of a tone--you have to EQ by subtraction (by keeping the whole curve or every slider at or below the 0dB line, or by pushing down a preamp slider), which can't give you an increased bass signal but can give you a proportionally lower treble signal and a lower overall volume. You increase the system volume to compensate for the lower volume.

All you're hearing currently is probably just clipping distortion from the EQ trying to push beyond max digital level.