[castleofargh]

@ castleofargh
ok i've tried with this video (and others of this channel) :

Right/left separate: perfect virtualisation : amazing !
When it comes to center stereo image with both left and right playing, at first a big part of the sound come back in my head, but another part stay on the virtual speakers - strange. But i've got the fealing that more i listen these video, the more the center sound seems to get out of my head. Do you think that a sort of training of my ears/brain could make the virtualisation work for me ?

I assume you're talking about doing this in the dark? Did you notice a big impact on the center image when trying to move your head compared to staying immobile? It's not great if you struggle to get center distance even in the dark. It could still be caused by many things but a diagnostic is going to be hell, and it's also possible that you're simply one of those few for whom simulated sound doesn't give a center image at a distance.

Maybe you can also test recording impulses with the speakers stuck together in front of you(or just one as center channel if you have tracks and settings to listen with a center channel). To find out if then you readily have distance in front for that/those speakers. Try it with the same speakers still in front of you(try not moving your head!)while listening to the simulation, as that should in principle give you the closest to a real experience of frontal sound as you can get(minus some FR deviation).
If that feels right and you have distance, try it again without the speakers to find out how much you need to see them and know they're there. Maybe also test with locked head position and while moving a little.

Depending on circumstance, that center speaker and then simulation while still in front of it could serve as good training I guess. In any case, I would at least go for having speakers in my line of sight when using impulcifer, and over time, try to anchor the sound to them because of this https://www.nature.com/articles/srep37342

 

[Xam198]

So i tested the speakers stuck together : it worked. First in darkness to obtain a clear centered front. Opening the eyes, i've lost then regained the centered front after some listening. I easily loose the centered, i need some training and the speakers in front of me, but at least it seems to work for me. Ouf. Many thanks for the help.

 

[castleofargh]

So you’re not a lost cause for center image, but the struggle is real. I wish I had a clear fix, but those damn humans are so complicated.
So far, did you only measure 2.0(usual pair of speakers) for stereo or did you already try multichannel measurement and playback? If like me you’re mainly using stereo albums, maybe a special workaround for you would be to measure stereo speakers plus a center channel, and find some dsp to upmix stereo into ... what’s that called? 3.0?
At this point I’m throwing ideas in the air. I don’t clearly understand why that should be better, but if it happens to help you a little, then why not go for it.

 

[musicreo]

In my efforts to improve the capture process, I'm currently shopping for binaural microphones that are best suited for the task and ran across the MS-TFB-2-MKII (Link: https://soundprofessionals.com/product/MS-TFB-2-MKII/), apparently a new iteration of my current MS-TFB-2.



These look very interesting. Have any of you gathered experience with the MKII variant of these microphones? I assume the prospect to use them as part of an in-ear plug structure might improve captures (while avoiding a mess on the mic element as is to be expected in people with narrow ear channels = moi)? However, I'm not sure whether the mic elements will insert deep enough into the ear canal. Or is it more efficient to simply cut off the hooks of my old MS-TFB-2, put them in foam plugs and crush them into the ears in good old Realiser fashion?

Indeed the mic specifications look very good. But what is the size of the capsules? Is the SNR of 80db a new improvement or is the capsule just bigger?

 

[Sekka]

If anyone is looking at the MS-TFB-1 or SP-TFB-1 from soundprofessionals due to pricing, don't bother because it is only a single mic despite the amazon title and description referring to mics, plural.

I'm 99% sure I'm going to need to order a second mic, but is it possible to do these measurements one mic at a time? If I do order a second mic, does it matter that they don't come as a pair if it's the same model?

 

[sander99]

but is it possible to do these measurements one mic at a time?

That would be extremely difficult because the timing differences between left and right ear are of course essential and critical. Plus you would have to have your head in the exact same position for the left and right ear measurement. So practically speaking: no, not possible.

If I do order a second mic, does it matter that they don't come as a pair if it's the same model?

Not a real problem I think because the headphone compensation effectively also compensates for the mics frequency response.

 

[reter]

If anyone is looking at the MS-TFB-1 or SP-TFB-1 from soundprofessionals due to pricing, don't bother because it is only a single mic despite the amazon title and description referring to mics, plural.

I'm 99% sure I'm going to need to order a second mic, but is it possible to do these measurements one mic at a time? If I do order a second mic, does it matter that they don't come as a pair if it's the same model?

i can say that i orderer the ms soundprofessional paired and both have different gains, so don't bother

 

[Sekka]

i can say that i orderer the ms soundprofessional paired and both have different gains, so don't bother

What do you mean, just that they aren't matched very well?

 

[reter]

What do you mean, just that they aren't matched very well?

yeah, if for matched you mean the volume you get recorded from the mics, they aren't matched; ironically, i got better matching with the cheaper primos

but it's not a real deal, you can just balance them with the audio interface to sound both more or less the same volume, or just let impulcifer do the thing itself

 

[Xam198]

@ castleofargh
I definitively need to see my speakers in front of me to make it works; i've tested with 3 speakers, one centered. At the begining i was closing my eyes : the precision of the soundstage was amazing, listening to a group of rock, each musician had a very precise position in space, i had the feeling they were here, just in front of me. Opening the eyes, i lost precision, my brain gathered the sounds on each speakers, depending of his position in space, but i kept a good localisation of virtual speakers. I took of the right speaker and slowly the sound moved to the left, loosing precison on the right. My conclusion is that my brain need to see the speakers to make the virtualisation works. I don't know how it will do in 7.1 since you never see the surround speakers, i have to test that.

 

[Maestroso]

Indeed the mic specifications look very good. But what is the size of the capsules? Is the SNR of 80db a new improvement or is the capsule just bigger?

Turns out the capsules of the MKII are too large (10 mm according to support).

I went for the SP-EAR-MIC-2, which are essential the same as the CB-900. Not the best specs but incredibly small size. Will report back how it all works out.

 

[castleofargh]

@ castleofargh
I definitively need to see my speakers in front of me to make it works; i've tested with 3 speakers, one centered. At the begining i was closing my eyes : the precision of the soundstage was amazing, listening to a group of rock, each musician had a very precise position in space, i had the feeling they were here, just in front of me. Opening the eyes, i lost precision, my brain gathered the sounds on each speakers, depending of his position in space, but i kept a good localisation of virtual speakers. I took of the right speaker and slowly the sound moved to the left, loosing precison on the right. My conclusion is that my brain need to see the speakers to make the virtualisation works. I don't know how it will do in 7.1 since you never see the surround speakers, i have to test that.

Now that you know, you can make use of it to help trick yourself, so it’s not all bad news.
Hey, at least next time you read something about a reviewer saying he’s not biased by visual cues, you can facepalm and never trust anything he says ever again. It’s something!

For multichannel, we’re not as discerning anyway. Plus most multichannel materials beside demos that try to make you puke, will focus on the front and use the rest mostly as support for ambience. So unless there a clear issue(like the back coming at the front), it usually remains enjoyable. At least I don’t think it can ever be as annoying as messed up positioning for the frontal sounds.

 

[musicreo]

Turns out the capsules of the MKII are too large (10 mm according to support).

Sorry to hear that but this is what I thought. The cheap Pui 5024HD I used also have 80db SNR and are approx. 10mm. You can measure with that capsules if you don't want any deep insertion and in the beginning my results with the capsules actually were not to bad. Also the gain matching of those capsules is way better than the matching of the Primo Em 258 capsules. Actually, for the 16 Primo capsules I had only 5 where closely matched (only the gain was not matched well, the frequency response was always ok).

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Something you guys may enjoy https://www.head-fi.org/threads/behind-joe-bloggs-computer-audio-batstation-year-2022.963519/

 

[reter]

Something you guys may enjoy https://www.head-fi.org/threads/behind-joe-bloggs-computer-audio-batstation-year-2022.963519/

wait, can i edit my own impulcifer measurement with that tool to enhance my hrtf? or it's exclusively for people who can't measure their own hrtf?