[rhythmdevils]

Yeah it's because headphone manufacturers are obsessed with chasing detail, and exaggerating the treble makes phones sound more detailed.  More treble wow's you at first, but unless you like that signature the love affair doesn't last long. 
 
But the situation is worse even than you make it out to be.  For current production high end headphones there is just the HD650 and LCD-2, and the latter is not mass produced.  If a manufacturer really wanted to make it big, they would create a warm sounding headphone that beat the HD650 for the same price.  They would literally have 0 competition. 

 

[yepimonfire]

Quote:

Yeah it's because headphone manufacturers are obsessed with chasing detail, and exaggerating the treble makes phones sound more detailed.  More treble wow's you at first, but unless you like that signature the love affair doesn't last long. 
 
But the situation is worse even than you make it out to be.  For current production high end headphones there is just the HD650 and LCD-2, and the latter is not mass produced.  If a manufacturer really wanted to make it big, they would create a warm sounding headphone that beat the HD650 for the same price.  They would literally have 0 competition. 

 


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I agree, there's a lack of expensier/more highend warm sounding headphones, there's quite a few low-mid end warm sounding headphones as those often lack in treble extension in particular but more expensier ones are quite a bit fewer in quantity, it often seems like manufacturers think that it won't be a highend headphone unless the highs are emphasized to the max for the brighest/most analytical sound possible. What about people that just want to "enjoy" the sound in a warm and more relaxed way?

actually more often then not, flatter sources sound bright, sure there are some unnaturally bright headphones, but every studio monitor ive heard with a graph to back up its flatness has been very bright sounding. take the DT880 for example, that headphone is almost perfectly linear and flat, yet anyone will tell you it is a piercing phone, same the the T1.
 

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Yea that's why I personally don't concider a flat line around 0 actually being flat sounding. I'm only talking from a personal view but for me a bit slanting frequency response is more "truer" flat sounding in my ears. It doesn't have to have peaks above "0-level", being on the same amplitude is enough for me as mids and bass to start sounding a bit on the brighter side, these frequencies sticks out more (to me anyway). Ofc what source/amp and even the shape of your own ear will vary the results too.

 

[yepimonfire]

well, technically it is flat sounding because it is reproducing the recording the same way it was recorded, i think i explained in another thread about how warm sound sounds more natural because at live performances room acoustics add a lot of warmth to the sound, most recordings are done in a way that room acoustics don't exist, in headphones, there is no end user room acoustics exist either, so we hear the sound in its full bright glory (or horror depending on your preferences ) if you've ever heard a bright pair of speakers in a room, you will notice the farther you move away from them the warmer the sound gets because you are hearing more room reflections. warm headphones definitely do sound more natural and easy to listen to, i will not disagree with that.
Quote:

Yea that's why I personally don't concider a flat line around 0 actually being flat sounding. I'm only talking from a personal view but for me a bit slanting frequency response is more "truer" flat sounding in my ears.

 

 

[RPGWiZaRD]

Ahh good point you brought up there with room acoustics and speakers, I definitely can relate to that as well, I've yet to hear a speaker that would be sounding as uncomfortably bright as some headphones can be and the distance and room size etc like you mentioned will definitely effect the tonal balance too. I suppose this is where my personal reference for flat sound comes from, very bright headphones just don't sound realistic and by realistic I mean ofc live music/concerts. That sparkyness just simply doesn't exist! Some people love it though and I don't blame them for it, different taste for different people is all. Would be nice with more "warmer" options in headphones though.
 
As the saying goes, sometimes less is more.

 

[wind016]

 


actually more often then not, flatter sources sound bright, sure there are some unnaturally bright headphones, but every studio monitor ive heard with a graph to back up its flatness has been very bright sounding. take the DT880 for example, that headphone is almost perfectly linear and flat, yet anyone will tell you it is a piercing phone, same the the T1.
 

T1 is not neutral and neither are so many bright headphones. Instruments when recorded up close do not sound bright either. The T1 sounds very unnatural to me. Classical musical sounds warm because it is recorded from a distance as you mentioned. Neutral does not = bright

 

[yepimonfire]

neutral may not equal bright, but more often then not neutral equipment sounds bright.
 
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actually more often then not, flatter sources sound bright, sure there are some unnaturally bright headphones, but every studio monitor ive heard with a graph to back up its flatness has been very bright sounding. take the DT880 for example, that headphone is almost perfectly linear and flat, yet anyone will tell you it is a piercing phone, same the the T1.
 

T1 is not neutral and neither are so many bright headphones. Instruments when recorded up close do not sound bright either. The T1 sounds very unnatural to me. Classical musical sounds warm because it is recorded from a distance as you mentioned. Neutral does not = bright

 

 

[wind016]

neutral may not equal bright, but more often then not neutral equipment sounds bright.
 


 

It just seems to be a consensus on Head-fi that these bright headphones are neutral. Doesn't make that so. This is the "bright" era of Head-fi.

 

[yepimonfire]

not entirely. i dont know what you consider bright and if it differs between what i consider bright.

 

[wind016]

not entirely. i dont know what you consider bright and if it differs between what i consider bright.

I know what neutral sounds like. Music doesn't sound tiny. Up close vocals sound full as they should when the mic is close to the mouth. The singer doesn't sound like they are shouting nor muffled. The subbass rumbles and midbass thumps

 

[yepimonfire]

what phones would you call neutral then?

 

[Armaegis]

Quote:

well, technically it is flat sounding because it is reproducing the recording the same way it was recorded, i think i explained in another thread about how warm sound sounds more natural because at live performances room acoustics add a lot of warmth to the sound, most recordings are done in a way that room acoustics don't exist, in headphones, there is no end user room acoustics exist either, so we hear the sound in its full bright glory (or horror depending on your preferences ) if you've ever heard a bright pair of speakers in a room, you will notice the farther you move away from them the warmer the sound gets because you are hearing more room reflections. warm headphones definitely do sound more natural and easy to listen to, i will not disagree with that.


 

I think this is partially related to how Ultrasone gets love/hate for their S-Logic sound. The headphones direct a lot of sound to the outer ear which simulates speakers/room acoustics, and sometimes it works really well, othertimes it feels very odd.
 

 

[wind016]

what phones would you call neutral then?

Ath W11R and Stax O2 mk1. Otherwise just EQ the other headphones.

 

[TMRaven]

Quote:

Ahh good point you brought up there with room acoustics and speakers, I definitely can relate to that as well, I've yet to hear a speaker that would be sounding as uncomfortably bright as some headphones can be and the distance and room size etc like you mentioned will definitely effect the tonal balance too. I suppose this is where my personal reference for flat sound comes from, very bright headphones just don't sound realistic and by realistic I mean ofc live music/concerts. That sparkyness just simply doesn't exist! Some people love it though and I don't blame them for it, different taste for different people is all. Would be nice with more "warmer" options in headphones though.
 
As the saying goes, sometimes less is more.

 
Boy my experience has been far from yours.  Quite literally almost every live concert I go to has highs so piercing and strong that I sometimes need to cover my ears.  On the opposite side of the rig, my DT990 (which almost all of head-fi calls too bright to even listen to) don't even stack up to the live concerts in terms of piercing highs that hurt my ears.
 
Brightness era of head-fi?  I seriously doubt it.  The overall trend is "warmer is better."  I certainly respect people for liking the sennheiser signature, but I personally can't stand the sennheiser signature, the highs just aren't as sparkly as they could be.
 
 

 

[yepimonfire]

anyone who has actually played around on a set of drums knows cymbals really do sparkle with ear shattering brightness. i can say this because i have played with drums before. and TMraven, it depends on the room, a concrete room will sound ultra bright, a smaller venue with drywall and carpet, not so much. it all depends on the room. my listening room is acoustically inert as much as i can get it to be with sound absorption panels and things sound super bright, and thats using flat speakers, i had my setup in the living room once, which has no dampening and is very echoey, it definitely had a warmer sound. there is a BIG difference between brightness and harshness IMO. brightness is natural, harshness is over brightness and it sounds unnatural.