[earmonger]

I get the fact that novel materials may cost more money but generally the materials were made in another industry, aviation, armaments, space etc.

Novel materials are therefore new in the audio industry but were previously used elsewhere and may be a bit costly, but do you think some of it (the use of exotic materials) is marketing with price hike to boot?

I'm thinking of fancy/exotic woods that are hand-carved into elaborate designs, raising the price without necessarily translating into higher-quality sound. Some people like beautiful-looking objects and are willing to pay a huge premium for them. That's marketing, or maybe just finding a willing market.

 

[Death_Block]

I doubt people would enjoy buying headphones made from pine.

 

[jonathan c]

People are well aware of high end good in all facets, but when it comes to audio, it's a product that is so under marketed.*** No-one I know is aware of this market ***

*** ‘High end audio’ has to grow its demographics. It cannot just sell more esoteric and more expensive gear to the same old farts to whom it sold the last round of gear. That is an expressway to extinction.
• High end audio has to make younger generations (male, female, etc) AWARE OF and EXCITED BY the prospect of great sound - much better sound - enriching their lifestyles. High end audio has to FIT INTO / BE PART of those lifestyles.
• Where to start?….advertise where the attention of younger generations is focused….at shows, let younger generations bring / hear the music of interest to THEM….stop the ‘blue-blood’ condescension….

 

[GREQ]

I doubt people would enjoy buying headphones made from pine.

JVC HA-DX1000 is pine, and very much enjoyed by those who own them

 

[JamarlMcPooby]

*** ‘High end audio’ has to grow its demographics. It cannot just sell more esoteric and more expensive gear to the same old farts to whom it sold the last round of gear. That is an expressway to extinction.
• High end audio has to make younger generations (male, female, etc) AWARE OF and EXCITED BY the prospect of great sound - much better sound - enriching their lifestyles. High end audio has to FIT INTO / BE PART of those lifestyles.
• Where to start?….advertise where the attention of younger generations is focused….at shows, let younger generations bring / hear the music of interest to THEM….stop the ‘blue-blood’ condescension….

I'm pretty young and just got into audio equipment in the past couple years. In fact, I very recently got myself an Aurorus Australis . One day I realized a Bose QC25 just wasn't gonna cut it for me, after going to the Magnolia section in a Best Buy.

 

[ChrisOc]

I'm pretty young and just got into audio equipment in the past couple years. In fact, I very recently got myself an Aurorus Australis . One day I realized a Bose QC25 just wasn't gonna cut it for me, after going to the Magnolia section in a Best Buy.

Welcome to [gear addiction or audio bliss, your choice].

Given you describe yourself as young and a recent hobbyist, I take the liberty to pass on what I have experienced as an audio enthusiast. Your journey may be different from mine, but the important thing is to enjoy it.

Firstly, and above all, do not lose sight of what matters, which, in my view, is enjoyment of your music. It may seem obvious, but descending into the abyss of getting the latest, or being dragged, almost unnoticeably into the most expensive or simply the buzz is easy, hence my advice below.

If you can afford it, buy it and try it, but if you cannot afford it, remember there is always a sale or a used set or a competitor who will replicate the sound you just could not afford a few months ago, so patience is the key, there will always be something new.

If you have the option to try audio gear out before you buy them, go for it, but remember, what you hear in the shop may not be what you hear at home. The shop may have a demo set which has settled (burn-in, not everyone believes in burn-in, so I describe it as TIME to get accustomed to the earphones/headphones) or the shop will use the best pairing of earphones/headphones, DAC and Amplifier combination, which you may not have at home.

Even if you can afford it, remember you are on a journey and that journey is about you and what you like. What you like might change (when you suddenly realise that "boom boom" (heavy bass) is not what you want and you enjoy a bit of "chissts chissts" (treble) or "doof doof" (sub-bass). The point is, find yourself first. What do you really like? This takes time to establish and each stage may be ephemeral (changing) or a reinforcement of what you like at the outset. I suggest you try a few inexpensive sets first, then go in the direction which makes your music sounds good.

When it comes to reviews, if you have something to compare with, look for reviews of what you already have and like, then use that as a guide to find out which reviewers' taste in audio suits yours. Check for description of sound not the emotional effect the reviewer says it has on them. That a reviewer says, "they sound incredible" may be specific to the reviewer. You will decide whether they sound incredible when you hear those earphones. What you need to concentrate on is the reviewer's description of sound and if that description suits your taste in audio gear.

Finally, build up from there, so called high-end" can be absolutely wonderful, but take your time to get what will make your music shine. Remember, it is the whole audio chain that matters, synergy from recording to source to amplification to earphones, headphones or speakers.

Enjoy the journey and I hope your journey is bliss not one of addiction.

 

[Derivative]

When I joined this hobby it felt natural to go for separates. I made sense to me that standalone streamers, DACs and amps would perform better than AIO boxes as they are built with a focus on performing a single task very well. In theory this reduces compromise and optimises for the task. It's certainly the "traditional" hi fi way and as a noob I felt it would be safe to go with the received wisdom.
There is also a fun, hobby enhancing, factor in hunting down different bits of gear and getting them to work together in a system, and swapping / upgrading gear over time.

However, recent tech advances have meant AIO boxes are now very competent, and offer a distinct value proposition that is becoming harder to ignore. Every time I look at swapping or upgrading gear, I'm faced with the AIO alternative and I have a feeling I will go for it at some point. The logic is increasingly compelling.
What are people's thoughts on this? Will we all inevitably move to one box, or will there always be room for separates in the hobby?

 

[JamarlMcPooby]

Welcome to [gear addiction or audio bliss, your choice].

Given you describe yourself as young and a recent hobbyist, I take the liberty to pass on what I have experienced as an audio enthusiast. Your journey may be different from mine, but the important thing is to enjoy it.

Firstly, and above all, do not lose sight of what matters, which, in my view, is enjoyment of your music. It may seem obvious, but descending into the abyss of getting the latest, or being dragged, almost unnoticeably into the most expensive or simply the buzz is easy, hence my advice below.

If you can afford it, buy it and try it, but if you cannot afford it, remember there is always a sale or a used set or a competitor who will replicate the sound you just could not afford a few months ago, so patience is the key, there will always be something new.

If you have the option to try audio gear out before you buy them, go for it, but remember, what you hear in the shop may not be what you hear at home. The shop may have a demo set which has settled (burn-in, not everyone believes in burn-in, so I describe it as TIME to get accustomed to the earphones/headphones) or the shop will use the best pairing of earphones/headphones, DAC and Amplifier combination, which you may not have at home.

Even if you can afford it, remember you are on a journey and that journey is about you and what you like. What you like might change (when you suddenly realise that "boom boom" (heavy bass) is not what you want and you enjoy a bit of "chissts chissts" (treble) or "doof doof" (sub-bass). The point is, find yourself first. What do you really like? This takes time to establish and each stage may be ephemeral (changing) or a reinforcement of what you like at the outset. I suggest you try a few inexpensive sets first, then go in the direction which makes your music sounds good.

When it comes to reviews, if you have something to compare with, look for reviews of what you already have and like, then use that as a guide to find out which reviewers' taste in audio suits yours. Check for description of sound not the emotional effect the reviewer says it has on them. That a reviewer says, "they sound incredible" may be specific to the reviewer. You will decide whether they sound incredible when you hear those earphones. What you need to concentrate on is the reviewer's description of sound and if that description suits your taste in audio gear.

Finally, build up from there, so called high-end" can be absolutely wonderful, but take your time to get what will make your music shine. Remember, it is the whole audio chain that matters, synergy from recording to source to amplification to earphones, headphones or speakers.

Enjoy the journey and I hope your journey is bliss not one of addiction.

Thanks! I'll keep all that in mind

 

[Qualitas]

What are people's thoughts on this? Will we all inevitably move to one box, or will there always be room for separates in the hobby?

PC vs. Mac. I.e. different strokes for different folks.

All in one solutions will continue to get better and will be a major factor in the audio equipment market, but there will always be a place for both. I enjoy and regularly use both separates and AIO type gear, just like I use both mac and pc for different applications. I like tinkering and optimizing, and building a PC or swapping out components in a system scratches that itch. But often I want something simple and streamlined, that's been spec'd for me and just works. Day to day I use a mac as my personal machine and have been getting more into all in one audio solutions.

John Darko has a few good videos on youtube about what he calls "future-fi", really just the rise of these all in one type solutions and how they fit into the marketplace.

 

[Derivative]

PC vs. Mac. I.e. different strokes for different folks.

All in one solutions will continue to get better and will be a major factor in the audio equipment market, but there will always be a place for both. I enjoy and regularly use both separates and AIO type gear, just like I use both mac and pc for different applications. I like tinkering and optimizing, and building a PC or swapping out components in a system scratches that itch. But often I want something simple and streamlined, that's been spec'd for me and just works. Day to day I use a mac as my personal machine and have been getting more into all in one audio solutions.

John Darko has a few good videos on youtube about what he calls "future-fi", really just the rise of these all in one type solutions and how they fit into the marketplace.

Agree there's likely to always be a place for both. I'd hate to lose the ability to chose between either approach., if for example AIOs become so dominant as to make separates a niche, low volume / high price game.
A potentially interesting middle ground would be an AIO with swappable / upgradeable modules, similar to what some DAPs offer at the moment. All the convenience of integration into one box, with the benefits of being able to tailor the sound or tinker with the set up? could be compelling if well executed.

 

[earmonger]

Digital really changed the game. You could always get a more precise turntable, a better cartridge, a more powerful or differently tuned amp, different 'phones or speakers. But I am skeptical that there is perceptible difference in digital sources -- or if it is perceptible, it's at the expense of accuracy. There's room in an all-in-one box for a player, DAC and amp with specs that are close to bit-perfect -- close enough for differences to be beyond human perception. The transducer stage -- headphones or speakers -- will always be a matter of individual taste, but the source is digits, and digits are measurable.

Of course there are considerations of design, durability, UI and flexibility -- how many EQ steps do you want to play with? -- but I can't help thinking that in truly blind testing, a lot of the perceived differences in high-end stuff would just evaporate.

 

[Derivative]

Digital really changed the game. You could always get a more precise turntable, a better cartridge, a more powerful or differently tuned amp, different 'phones or speakers. But I am skeptical that there is perceptible difference in digital sources -- or if it is perceptible, it's at the expense of accuracy. There's room in an all-in-one box for a player, DAC and amp with specs that are close to bit-perfect -- close enough for differences to be beyond human perception. The transducer stage -- headphones or speakers -- will always be a matter of individual taste, but the source is digits, and digits are measurable.

Of course there are considerations of design, durability, UI and flexibility -- how many EQ steps do you want to play with? -- but I can't help thinking that in truly blind testing, a lot of the perceived differences in high-end stuff would just evaporate.

That's a great point about digital being the game changer. It changed the way we consume music and is now having a fundamental impact on the gear we listen to music with.

 

[ehjie]

Here's one of those thoughts that may or may not happen.
DAP makers - how 'bout putting up an e-sim enabled DAP?
I for one start to fade away from the native file system and slowly migrating into streaming, ie more streaming time than native file listening time, especially on travels, long travels and situations without wi-fi, project sites away from towns - still building additional IT infras and what not. I use my data, 10gb's a lot of play time. I hardly consume all, mostly 80%
Yes, I know - there can be responses like " why don't you just load 'em up on your dap?" - A: @ 1/2 tb of music files on an average size dap, that's still not enough.
And truth be told - STREAMING is really convenient, add to that ai assisted music mix, etc.
For me, this feature seem overlooked...

 

[ChrisOc]

Here's one of those thoughts that may or may not happen.
DAP makers - how 'bout putting up an e-sim enabled DAP?
I for one start to fade away from the native file system and slowly migrating into streaming, ie more streaming time than native file listening time, especially on travels, long travels and situations without wi-fi, project sites away from towns - still building additional IT infras and what not. I use my data, 10gb's a lot of play time. I hardly consume all, mostly 80%
Yes, I know - there can be responses like " why don't you just load 'em up on your dap?" - A: @ 1/2 tb of music files on an average size dap, that's still not enough.
And truth be told - STREAMING is really convenient, add to that ai assisted music mix, etc.
For me, this feature seem overlooked...

I can see that happening in the near future, even though it is could easily happen today as a result of phone manufacturers improving their audio quality thus bringing them closer to DAPs. However, as DAP manufacturers are the poorer cousins of phone manufacturers incorporating e-sims is more more likely to come from DAP manufacturers as the audio enthusiast market is too small for phone manufacturers to focus on us.
Note: RIP LG phones.

If you take Oppo (whose phones I have bought for years) they made headphones and other audio equipment in their early days and are in fact the largest manufacturer in numbers. If you add up the different brands they own, Oppo, Vivo, One Plus, Realme and the tech they licence and supply to others. Side issue: Plus the founder of Oppo apparently owns a huge amount of Apple shares, if reports are correct, it means one person "owns" most of the companies producing phones in the market today.

Oppo could kill DAPs in one day, by incorporating good Amps and DACs into their phones (such phones would have to increase in size) or by making a DAP, because they previously made good quality and good sounding amps and planar headphones (and Blueray players....but that is another story).

Unfortunately for those of us who are audio enthusiasts and want to see DAP prices fall and quality rise, better audio in phones is unlikely to happen because we represent a small market. Fortunately for those of us audio enthusiasts who want to see competition and innovation within the industry, it is likely, because it makes sense, that e-sims will come to DAPs soon. Just imagine the trigger, an improvement in Bluetooth codec by a small margin from the very good quality of LDAC and suddenly it makes sense to make streaming a priority as well as, rather than instead of, native files.

 

[baskingshark]

I can see that happening in the near future, even though it is could easily happen today as a result of phone manufacturers improving their audio quality thus bringing them closer to DAPs. However, as DAP manufacturers are the poorer cousins of phone manufacturers incorporating e-sims is more more likely to come from DAP manufacturers as the audio enthusiast market is too small for phone manufacturers to focus on us.
Note: RIP LG phones.

If you take Oppo (whose phones I have bought for years) they made headphones and other audio equipment in their early days and are in fact the largest manufacturer in numbers. If you add up the different brands they own, Oppo, Vivo, One Plus, Realme and the tech they licence and supply to others. Side issue: Plus the founder of Oppo apparently owns a huge amount of Apple shares, if reports are correct, it means one person "owns" most of the companies producing phones in the market today.

Oppo could kill DAPs in one day, by incorporating good Amps and DACs into their phones (such phones would have to increase in size) or by making a DAP, because they previously made good quality and good sounding amps and planar headphones (and Blueray players....but that is another story).

Unfortunately for those of us who are audio enthusiasts and want to see DAP prices fall and quality rise, better audio in phones is unlikely to happen because we represent a small market. Fortunately for those of us audio enthusiasts who want to see competition and innovation within the industry, it is likely, because it makes sense, that e-sims will come to DAPs soon. Just imagine the trigger, an improvement in Bluetooth codec by a small margin from the very good quality of LDAC and suddenly it makes sense to make streaming a priority as well as, rather than instead of, native files.

I am a DAP fan and I don't mind bringing an additional device on the go just to listen to music.

However, lately dongles have really been quite game-changing in terms of price to performance ratio. Even a ten dollar apple dongle has quite good sonic fidelity (maybe it is weak in power only), and by just jacking said dongles into a phone, you can get quite decent sound.

In comparison, one needs to spend quite a bit of coin just to get the same sound in a DAP, as compared to a dongle.

Maybe a dongle/phone setup is limited by battery and memory, but this can be mitigated by bringing a charging pack or sd cards along.

But I have a feeling, with the evolution of dongles, DAPs are gonna be quite niche, especially the mega buck ones.