[kwitel]

Very cool stuff but I highly doubt this was done purposely...if it was, I think we all would have heard about it a long time ago.
No band would do something that incredibly complex and either not leak the fact that they had done it (at least after this long a period of time) or outright not take credit for doing it.
IMO, it works because KID A is essentially an electronic album whose perfectly timed beats can be easily mixed with an exact copy, very much like mixing two house tracks together.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Theoretically, this technique would work well for any song that's repetitive, tonal, and metronomically perfect. "Everything in its Right Place" has some interesting rhythmic variety in the vocal line that works well when the tracks are spaced with this particular delay.

Beyond that, all coincidence.

But, Radiohead do carefully structure their songs.

 

[Audiofiler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwitel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Very cool stuff but I highly doubt this was done purposely...if it was, I think we all would have heard about it a long time ago. No band would do something that incredibly complex and either not leak the fact that they had done it (at least after this long a period of time) or outright not take credit for doing it. IMO, it works because KID A is essentially an electronic album whose perfectly timed beats can be easily mixed with an exact copy, very much like mixing two house tracks together.

yeah, except that it works VERY well with this particular album..and have tried this trick with dozens of underground, non underground, rock, indie, etc music. Give it a try if you can,

 

[jude]

I've now deleted a few posts in this thread requesting that the combined track be made available for sharing/download. For obvious reasons, we do not allow file/music sharing to be conducted/coordinated here, so please refrain from making such requests at Head-Fi.

 

[Peter Polo]

this is real fun

 

[SickMouthy]

Given that all CD players spin at different speeds, this is coincidental nonsense. Heard of Zaireka?

 

[Geoff Rymer]

Huh? Playback should always be at the same speed, no matter what the method of achieving this (multispeed+buffers or just singlespeed), or am I missing something?

 

[88Chris]

zaireeka is amazing. although, i've only listened to it properly, once. it's hard to find 4 people with 4 cd players, that are willing to sit there and sync the tracks.

 

[neilvg]

I will be having a small Zaireeka get together this sunday night. Man, I will say it now, the other flaming lips albums don't even touch the masterpiece, the utter brilliance that is Zaireeka. IT IS THAT GOOD.

There is a 5.1 dts mix available which I have but have not tried. However, 5.1 is different than 8.4, which is essentially what 4 cd's, each in stereo would be (with sub) is.

===

I've gotta try this Kid 17 thing out. A program like soundforge can easily accomplish this, and any minor variations can be tuned in just right.

Neil

 

[SickMouthy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Geoff Rymer /img/forum/go_quote.gif Huh? Playback should always be at the same speed, no matter what the method of achieving this (multispeed+buffers or just singlespeed), or am I missing something?

Right.

Zaireeka is a 4-disc album by The Flaming Lips wherein all 4 discs are designed to be played simultaneously on different players. It's like... psychotic quadraphonics, or something, only doubled, cos each CD player is obv. in two channels. Octphonics?

Anyway, there is a lengthy blurb in the sleeve by Wayne Coyne which explains how they discovered, while putting it together, that all CD players, even if they are the same make and model, will play at slightly different and differing speeds, meaning that each player will lag and catch up and take the lead at different times. This is down to two (million) things, namely that CD players are mechanical devices and therefore subject to constantly variable factors such as friction, heat, etcetera, as they phsyically spin the disc, and also they rely on software to read the disc and tranform the data to sound, and the electronics are also subject to variations in efficiency due to heat, dust, etcetera. No two playings of Zaireeka are the same, even if you use the same players, for this reason.

If you're starting two copies of Kid A 17 seconds after each other and they are syncing 'amazingly', this is serendipity and psychoacoustics in action. Someone says they sync; you want them to sync; you listen for instances of syncing and therefore find them. Same principal as being afraid of spiders; looking for them subconsciously; spotting more of them than a non arachnophobe who doens't think of them at all. If you will it, it will come. Basic tenet of existential self-realisation. Coincidence is generally subconscious opportunity-manufacturing.

Also, given the nature of music, pretty much any two CDs started any increment of seconds after each other will produce moments of 'magical' syncing - overlaid, intersecting rythmns are called grooves, and overlaid melodies are called harmonies (or dissonances!) (or something...). That's just how music works, that's why singing songs in-the-round works or a DJ mixing two tracks together works. Anyone who's ever edited video footage to music will know that you can drop a track over pretty much any visual activity and find magical moments that sync. It's not magic - it's science! Which makes it better than magic, cos anybody can do it.

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickMouthy /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's not magic - it's science! Which makes it better than magic....

QFT

 

[neilvg]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickMouthy /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you're starting two copies of Kid A 17 seconds after each other and they are syncing 'amazingly', this is serendipity and psychoacoustics in action. Someone says they sync; you want them to sync; you listen for instances of syncing and therefore find them. Same principal as being afraid of spiders; looking for them subconsciously; spotting more of them than a non arachnophobe who doens't think of them at all. If you will it, it will come. Basic tenet of existential self-realisation. Coincidence is generally subconscious opportunity-manufacturing. Also, given the nature of music, pretty much any two CDs started any increment of seconds after each other will produce moments of 'magical' syncing - overlaid, intersecting rythmns are called grooves, and overlaid melodies are called harmonies (or dissonances!) (or something...). That's just how music works, that's why singing songs in-the-round works or a DJ mixing two tracks together works. Anyone who's ever edited video footage to music will know that you can drop a track over pretty much any visual activity and find magical moments that sync. It's not magic - it's science! Which makes it better than magic, cos anybody can do it.

I agree when it comes to speaking about CD's, which of course, are played by mechanical devices. However - Radiohead album Kid A is a studio creation likely made in ProTools. Syncing tracks in Pro-Tools is the name of the game, and every computer based multi-tracker accomplishes this every time down to milliseconds and more. If radiohead wanted to design this "hidden" aspect to the album, it wouldn't be hard for them to do it as a kind of fun little ditty in pro tools. I can import darkside of the moon and the wizard of oz in protools for instance, and it will play exactly as I want it everytime. The same holds true for Kid A.

But I also agree with you that playing anything in this manner will at time, produce magical results purely on the basis of serendipity alone!

Neil

 

[VicAjax]

Quote:

Originally Posted by neilvg /img/forum/go_quote.gif But I also agree with you that playing anything in this manner will at time, produce magical results purely on the basis of serendipity alone!

it's quite simply the fact that music is a rhythmic construct. as long as the beat matches and it's the same song, you'll get interesting effects.

 

[micagreenmachine]

Anyone ever do this with "Row, row, row your boat" when you were a kid? Same idea I think...

 

[Geoff Rymer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SickMouthy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Right...

Well that shut me up!

Thanks for a very thorough explanation.

I was aware of the concept of Zaireeka's 4CD thingy, but I don't own it so haven't tried it or read the sleevenotes.

Presumably if you import to HDD once and create a multi-layered version on your PC it is possible to overcome this (although whether this is desirable is a different question).