[bbophead]

In the late '60s and early '70s, I graduated from the stock Shure M44-7 to the Stanton 681EEE on my original AR TT.  Then I discoverd the Shure V15 Type II.  That was better. 

 

[analogsurviver]

  Checked vinylengine, and yes the 681EEE is a high-compliance cart, best for tonearms in the 4 gram to 16 gram range according to the chart. My mistake.
 
The Ortofon OM40 might be a good match as well.

681EEE is not that high compliance cart. It is very good indeed, but not quite to the level of which Black Widow is capable of.
 
881S, 980/981S and particularly Epoch II series, specially LZ9S , would have been formidable Stantons with the BW.
 
The Ortofon LM would actually be preffered to the OM (later version of LM) with BW and as always, the higher the stylus # with Ortofon, the better. 
This rule might have one exception : Stylus 20 can sound really good under right conditions. Another Ortofon worth having on BW is M20E Super - perhaps the highest compliance stylus ( beware: FL fine line version if far stiffer/lower compliance ) , vintage or otherwise, you can still buy in a shop.
 
There were a few others, but are today in too short supply to be chickensquaking about them on any forum.

 

[Silent One]

mmf-7 cart revisited.:
 
If I wanted to replace the factory installed Goldring Eroica high-output mc, what MM's would serve me well for around $1k? Can't remember some of the previous suggestions you mentioned early in the year.

 

[analogsurviver]

  mmf-7 cart revisited.:
 
If I wanted to replace the factory installed Goldring Eroica high-output mc, what MM's would serve me well for around $1k? Can't remember some of the previous suggestions you mentioned early in the year.

Ask yourself first what kind of sound you are after. What you are familiar with, what you heard at other places and liked, what made you to run away but didn't out of sheer politeness - etc.
I know you like female vocals and that can be bete noire of MCs in the lower price range.
 
MMs are load picky - and if you can not present them with the correct load, they can sound pretty strange. Please remind me of the phono input resistance(s) and capacitance(s) and/or any imput load switching capabilities at your disposal. Arm wiring capacitance spec would also be handy.
 
Funny thing - recommendations can range from about 50$ all the way to 1111.11 - and although more money usually does bring  better performance, there are exceptions in given combinations.

 

[dosley01]

  mmf-7 cart revisited.:
 
If I wanted to replace the factory installed Goldring Eroica high-output mc, what MM's would serve me well for around $1k? Can't remember some of the previous suggestions you mentioned early in the year.

I had a Grado Sonata 1 on my MMF-7 and still have it on my current table.  IMHO, you'll be in for a big treat when you get rid of the Eroica.  I actually preferred the less expensive 10xx Goldring line on the MMF-5 and MMF-7.  After hearing the cartridge evaluation Fremer did on AnalogPlanet, I would probably have to choose the 2M Black.  I wish he would do a +or- 1K cartridge shootout/comparison with the Clearaudio Virtuoso, Dynavector 20XH, Soundsmith Zephyr, Grado Referencce Master 1, Sumiko Blackbird, Benz Micro ACE S, Goldenote Boboli MKII and anything else I missed in that price range.  I realize there are a few HO Moving Coils in that list but personally I don't care as long as they work with my MM phono stage. 
 
One other option, buy a B-stock Marantz TT15S1 for about 1K, it will come with a new Clearaudio Virtuoso V1, sell your MMF-7 for $500-600 and have a new TT and new cartridge for about 400-500.  That's what I ended up doing.  Since I had the Sonata, I sold the MMF-7 for $500 and Virtuoso for $520 so in the end I got and upgraded turtable and even put a few bucks back in my pocket.  When I'm ready for my VPI Classic 1, the TT15 should sell for $600-650 without cartridge, so it's win - win.

 

[Silent One]

   
Ask yourself first what kind of sound you are after. What you are familiar with, what you heard at other places and liked, what made you to run away but didn't out of sheer politeness - etc.
I know you like female vocals and that can be bete noire of MCs in the lower price range.
 
MMs are load picky - and if you can not present them with the correct load, they can sound pretty strange. Please remind me of the phono input resistance(s) and capacitance(s) and/or any imput load switching capabilities at your disposal. Arm wiring capacitance spec would also be handy.
 
Funny thing - recommendations can range from about 50$ all the way to 1111.11 - and although more money usually does bring  better performance, there are exceptions in given combinations.

 
You hit the parameters Olympic style! Lots of Jazz; Blues; Soul; Zydeco; Afropop; Latin Jazz; Chinese-pop; Indian-pop; Classical ect. When it comes to my system, I like a certain amount of decorum. But there are times I want my system to swing! Musically, dynamically and emotionally.
 
This was my biggest challenge with the Senn HD800. Everybody and their niece was trying to sway me to buy a pair. Spent a night with them. And the Senn's wowed me on technical ability. Yet, my feet never moved, my head never bobbed the entire night - I was not moved emotionally despite technical merits. 
 
Back to the dirt...er cart. I need sort of a Chameleon cart - refined when it's suppose to be, and wild

when I want it to be! 
 
Cont'd...
 
I have a Music Hall MMF-7. I'll have to look up resistance and capacitance. And the arm has upgraded Cardas wiring.
 
 
Electrical Characteristics 
Load resistance: 47Kohms 
Load capacitance: 100-500pf 
Internal inductance: 0.2mH 
Intenal resistance: 77ohms 

 

[analogsurviver]

   
You hit the parameters Olympic style! Lots of Jazz; Blues; Soul; Zydeco; Afropop; Latin Jazz; Chinese-pop; Indian-pop; Classical ect. When it comes to my system, I like a certain amount of decorum. But there are times I want my system to swing! Musically, dynamically and emotionally.
 
This was my biggest challenge with the Senn HD800. Everybody and their niece was trying to sway me to buy a pair. Spent a night with them. And the Senn's wowed me on technical ability. Yet, my feet never moved, my head never bobbed the entire night - I was not moved emotionally despite technical merits. 
 
Back to the dirt...er cart. I need sort of a Chameleon cart - refined when it's suppose to be, and wild

when I want it to be! 
 
Cont'd...
 
I have a Music Hall MMF-7. I'll have to look up resistance and capacitance. And the arm has upgraded Cardas wiring.
 
 
Electrical Characteristics 
Load resistance: 47Kohms 
Load capacitance: 100-500pf 
Internal inductance: 0.2mH 
Intenal resistance: 77ohms 

I find the advice by dosley01 a post above right on the money.
 
With your choices in music styles, the cart does need really good trackability - treble content in all the genres mentioned can be quite taxing. Thank goodness you did not mention the toughest of them all, the Chinese opera ...

. Nothing against it, but it is the ultimate b***h to record and reproduce accurately.
 
I would throw Audio Technica 440MLa and 150MLX in the mix.
 
I can sympathize with you regarding Senns. HD 800 surprised me in a very positive way, but it still is rational first emotional second type of approach. I had nothing but shudder reminescensces of HD600/650 - most definitely not my coup of anything. Cold, sterile, bland, lifeless - dead. You can power them off nuclear power station and I would not change my opinion. Electrostatic/Electret Senns are another story altogether.
 
Your desires/requirement for cart echoes that of most men for women

 - but there *is* a slight discrepancy between wishes and what is realistically achievable...
 
Electrical characteristics you posted are for  the ???cartridge - and not toneram wiring. That would have some next to negligible resistance value you can completely ignore with MMs and capacitance value in the 100 pF order of magnitude. This capacitance IS important - the lower it is, the more versatility it will offer when paired with MM carts.

 

[Silent One]

Originally Posted by analogsurviver /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

 
I find the advice by dosley01 a post above right on the money.
 
With your choices in music styles, the cart does need really good trackability - treble content in all the genres mentioned can be quite taxing. Thank goodness you did not mention the toughest of them all, the Chinese opera ...

. Nothing against it, but it is the ultimate b***h to record and reproduce accurately.
 
I would throw Audio Technica 440MLa and 150MLX in the mix.
 
I can sympathize with you regarding Senns. HD 800 surprised me in a very positive way, but it still is rational first emotional second type of approach. I had nothing but shudder reminescensces of HD600/650 - most definitely not my coup of anything. Cold, sterile, bland, lifeless - dead. You can power them off nuclear power station and I would not change my opinion. Electrostatic/Electret Senns are another story altogether.
 
Your desires/requirement for cart echoes that of most men for women

 - but there *is* a slight discrepancy between wishes and what is realistically achievable...
 
Electrical characteristics you posted are for  the ???cartridge - and not toneram wiring. That would have some next to negligible resistance value you can completely ignore with MMs and capacitance value in the 100 pF order of magnitude. This capacitance IS important - the lower it is, the more versatility it will offer when paired with MM carts.

 

 
Not to mislead you, I may have wrongly used "arm" when commenting on the electrical characteristics - it was from the manual for my Music Hall TT.

 

[parbaked]

   
Not to mislead you, I may have wrongly used "arm" when commenting on the electrical characteristics - it was from the manual for my Music Hall TT.

Curious to know what phono pre-amp you plan to use with your TT?
Will you use the Shindos or is it the big Sansui for vinyl?

 

[analogsurviver]

   
Not to mislead you, I may have wrongly used "arm" when commenting on the electrical characteristics - it was from the manual for my Music Hall TT.

That does it: you will all have to endure my hand drawn graphs (and I am terrible with drawing etc ), as I have no time or intention to master some computer wizardry required to produce "present day normally" looking graphs generated by computer. 
 
If even the manuals mix apples with asparaguses - no wonder poor audiophiles make even substantially greater mess out of it all ...

 

[TheWuss]

The Esoteric is here.  

 
It is one of the most detailed audio components i have ever heard.
 

 

 

[longbowbbs]

  The Esoteric is here.  

 
It is one of the most detailed audio components i have ever heard.
 

 

What? No Parasound JC2?

 

[TheWuss]

That would certainly be a nice cosmetic match.  

 
and the Parasound stuff is straight-up amazing for the money.
 
but, the Esoteric was a bit more full-featured, and i found one for a killer deal.
 
i couldn't pass it up.
Stereophile class A rated.  and 6 Moons' Blue moon award winner.  etc. etc.
 
the ability to plug in two decks, and switch between.
plus the front-panel on-the-fly switching of load impedance was a plus.
 
my Chinook has the dip switches on the back,  and it was quite a pain to set up initially. 

 

[Silent One]

  The Esoteric is here.  

 
It is one of the most detailed audio components i have ever heard.
 
 

Looking at your room... that's some good livin' right there! 

 

 

[Silent One]

   
That does it: you will all have to endure my hand drawn graphs (and I am terrible with drawing etc ), as I have no time or intention to master some computer wizardry required to produce "present day normally" looking graphs generated by computer. 
 
If even the manuals mix apples with asparaguses - no wonder poor audiophiles make even substantially greater mess out of it all ...