[DrBenway]

A recently posted NYT article describes the tiny--but persistent--minority of folks who believe that the US space program in general, and the moon-landings in particular, were faked.

Does anyone here believe this? If so, what is your reasoning? If not, what do you think motivates such beliefs? I'm not going to take a judgemental stand on this question, other than to say that I don't believe that the US space program, or the moon landings, were/are fake. What do you think?

 

[billybob_jcv]

As someone who grew-up with the space program and then went on to get a degree in Aerospace Engineering, I am offended by the thought that anyone believes we couldn't get to the moon. I just wish the space race was still in full-swing so we could have continued to do projects like the Apollo program. Our economy would probably still be in the cr@pper, but it would have been a lot more fun getting here...

 

[appophylite]

Personally, I believe that the Lunar Landings are real and that the US Space Program is not a sham, but I have personally met, talked and debated with people who do believe it is a hoax.

 

[TheMarchingMule]

You might as well use the poll to ask "Was 9/11 an inside job?"

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by billybob_jcv /img/forum/go_quote.gif As someone who grew-up with the space program and then went on to get a degree in Aerospace Engineering, I am offended by the thought that anyone believes we couldn't get to the moon. I just wish the space race was still in full-swing so we could have continued to do projects like the Apollo program. Our economy would probably still be in the cr@pper, but it would have been a lot more fun getting here...

As someone who grew up during the Cold War, I sort of agree with you, and I sort of disagree with you. On one hand, I don't miss the nagging feeling, in the back of my mind, that we were all going to horribly die in a nuclear holocaust (When Korean Airlines 007 was shot down, I felt like I needed a diaper for about a week. Despite the fact that I was in my 20s.)

On the other hand, I deeply believe in the value of the space program, and there is no doubt that the free world's struggle with the Soviets ensured that the program was well funded.

Now, I look forward to Orion, but I am very, very concerned about the gap that will occur between the end of the shuttle program and the advent of Orion. Does the US really want to be in the position of not being able to launch manned missions on its own? Even for just "a few years?"


Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, I believe that the Lunar Landings are real and that the US Space Program is not a sham, but I have personally met, talked and debated with people who do believe it is a hoax.

I'd be very curious to know how well these people argued their point. Did they seem like crazy conspiracy theorists, or more like intelligent people who had sincerely come to unconventional conclusions?

 

[subtle]

The thing I like most when this question is presented are the excuses people come up with when asked, if we supposedly have been before, why haven't we gone back?

 

[appophylite]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrBenway /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd be very curious to know how well these people argued their point. Did they seem like crazy conspiracy theorists, or more like intelligent people who had sincerely come to unconventional conclusions?

In all honesty, these were extremely intelligent people. It was a course that our company makes all engineering and science majors under 1 year of employment or less take so that they can get to know each and so we can meet other people from around the world. These were all people with science majors and we had gotten to know each other for about 2 weeks at this point and had debated many a topic before this came up. Certainly none of them came up as kooky, crazy or conspiracy whackos, which made their conviction in the Lunar Landing being a hoax that much more surprising to me.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might as well use the poll to ask "Was 9/11 an inside job?"

That's an apt comparison. What frightens me is that there are lots of essentially good people -- love their children, would never intentionally hurt someone, etc. -- who believe that it was indeed an inside job. I started this thread partly because I fear for the future of the space program, and partly because I don't understand how intelligent, educated people can come to these conclusions.

Let's not even talk about the Flat Earth Society (That Megellin guy? Media fabrication!)


Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif In all honesty, these were extremely intelligent people. It was a course that our company makes all engineering and science majors under 1 year of employment or less take so that they can get to know each and so we can meet other people from around the world. These were all people with science majors and we had gotten to know each other for about 2 weeks at this point and had debated many a topic before this came up. Certainly none of them came up as kooky, crazy or conspiracy whackos, which made their conviction in the Lunar Landing being a hoax that much more surprising to me.

I can't imagine how I would have responded under the circumstances. If these were, as you say, educated, sane people, what do you think led them to this conclusion...?

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing I like most when this question is presented are the excuses people come up with when asked, if we supposedly have been before, why haven't we gone back?

I'm not so concerned with people who take that tack (Maybe the astronauts got bad service at the Sea of Tranquility Sheraton during their stay? Vowed never to return?)

What does concern me is that there are clearly intelligent people who argue skillfully for ideas like this. I want to know what motivates them.

 

[KONAKONA]

You forgot to set the poll as public.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KONAKONA /img/forum/go_quote.gif You forgot to set the poll as public.

I chose to do that because I did not want people to feel intimidated about voting on the basis their true feelings. While I obviously have strong feelings about this subject, I am very interested in letting people cast their vote without fear of reprisal.

 

[iriverdude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif The thing I like most when this question is presented are the excuses people come up with when asked, if we supposedly have been before, why haven't we gone back?

Why go back to the moon dozens of times? We've already brought back rocks, we don't need to bring back tons of moonrock.

One of the things the conspiracy theroists put forward is the moon loanding flag waving about.

 

[Uncle Erik]

Sure we went. The evidence is overwhelming and there were too many people involved for a conspiracy to have held together for 40 years. Further, keep in mind that amateurs tracked the missions. Amateur astronomers paid close attention and so did the hams. You can pick up radio transmissions from space and if things were funny, the hams would have noticed. Even today, a homebrewed antenna and the right radio will let you make a QSL with the ISS. I know people who have spoken to astronauts and cosmonauts up there. Everyone who goes up has an amateur radio license and usually enjoys chatting with people on Earth in their free time.

So, to me, it's unquestionable that we went and continue to visit space. I even have a suspicion that there's another black space program, run by the military. There are probably other astronauts that go up aside from the civilian program.

Why haven't we gone back? I think priorities shifted, not to mention funding. Apollo was just to get to the moon and back. It was not possible to service satellites and conduct research with a capsule. Skylab was a logical next step and so was the Shuttle. Both were/are successful and we wouldn't have the ISS without them. It's a shame that there isn't a permanent moon base. I'd like to see that - I think the space program is tax money well spent.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure we went. The evidence is overwhelming and there were too many people involved for a conspiracy to have held together for 40 years. Further, keep in mind that amateurs tracked the missions. Amateur astronomers paid close attention and so did the hams. You can pick up radio transmissions from space and if things were funny, the hams would have noticed. Even today, a homebrewed antenna and the right radio will let you make a QSL with the ISS. I know people who have spoken to astronauts and cosmonauts up there. Everyone who goes up has an amateur radio license and usually enjoys chatting with people on Earth in their free time.

Yep, and the hams are still at it, according to the NYT. It's a shame that this amazing hobby has fallen so completely off of the techy-geek radar.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif So, to me, it's unquestionable that we went and continue to visit space. I even have a suspicion that there's another black space program, run by the military. There are probably other astronauts that go up aside from the civilian program.

With high-earth orbit the obvious "high ground" strategically, that makes complete sense. Particularly when the Russians still have a flourishing space program, and the Chinese are advancing by leaps and bounds. I'm not afraid of the PRK's inept program, yet, but there's no telling what they could accomplish if left to their own devices for another decade or so. Other rising powers -- The EU, Iran, etc., etc., all have potential to become major players over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Why haven't we gone back? I think priorities shifted, not to mention funding. Apollo was just to get to the moon and back. It was not possible to service satellites and conduct research with a capsule. Skylab was a logical next step and so was the Shuttle. Both were/are successful and we wouldn't have the ISS without them. It's a shame that there isn't a permanent moon base. I'd like to see that - I think the space program is tax money well spent.

Agreed. But I still think maybe the guys who landed on the moon got poor service in the restaurants and/or hotels. Maybe lunar standards of hospitality aren't quite in line with earthly expectations? I can just see Armstrong and Aldrin making a point of leaving an inadaquate tip and telling the concierge that "there are other heavenly bodies, OK?" OK, that was a joke. A lame joke, but a joke nevertheless.

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by appophylite /img/forum/go_quote.gif Personally, I believe that the Lunar Landings are real and that the US Space Program is not a sham, but I have personally met, talked and debated with people who do believe it is a hoax.

There definitely is some "evidence" to the contrary - obviously the shadow and the waving flag from the first video. No doubt that lunar landings have been made, but that video does seem to suggest that it is not authentic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMarchingMule /img/forum/go_quote.gif You might as well use the poll to ask "Was 9/11 an inside job?"

This is highly inappropriate. Not only does this violate the no-politics on the site, but this would be touchy enough as there are those who would argue quite vehemently about this.