[andrzejpw]

I got back a bit ago from Pittsburgh's first-ever Head-Fi meet. I had a great time, and I'm really looking forward to reading everyone else's impressions. The meet was fairly small, with six of us showing up. Tmesis graciously allowed us to use his home as the meeting place, and things came off very well. Thanks goes out to headroom as well for sending me two big boxes of goods. I'm telling you guys, you really DO need a Max w/ stepped attenuator and HD650s for your computers.

Anyways, I took some notes during the meet. Ask me if you need something cleared up. For headphone comparisons, I mainly used my rig below, as I'm quite familiar with its sound.

Beyerdynamic:
We had two pairs of beyers at the meet, the 880 and the 770s. My previous experience with beyer headphones has been limited to the 831, the 931, and the 250-80s. Out of those three, the 250-80s have always been my favorites. The 831s and the 931s were just incredibly bright, with little bass to speak of. The 250-80s offer a darker presentation compared to the affor mentioned, which seems more balanced to me. In anycase, both the 770s and 880s sound overly dark to me. With the 770s, the explosive bass seems to mask some of the midrange. There's no doubt: these really deserve the name "Bassmaster." It really was too much for me, and I pictured engineers at beyer thinking up ways of making the most bass-pounding cans, but they forgot the highs. The 880s were listenable, on the other hand, and didn't have that heart stopping bass. Still, they were dark cans. I'm really wondering when beyer will get it right: they've got from one extreme to the other(931/831 to 880/770). I haven't heard the 250-80s in a good while, so I'd be interested in hearing them now and seeing if they're as dark as their cousins.

Grado:
I'll start out my saying that Grados have recently become my favorite phones. I've gone from being a sennheiser guy to really appreciating john grados work. We had 3 pairs of grados at the meet, SR-60s, 125s, and 225s. The 225s were my personal pair, outfitted with flat pads. The 125s on the other hand, had bowls. In anycase, all of you with Grados: buy flats. The difference is night and day. Bowl pads are the reason I hated all grados (RS-1 included) when I first tried them. The bowls tip the sound up towards the treble, making the phones sound very bright and shrill, with little bass. The flat pads immediatly tame the highs and give the listener tight and punchy bass. On another note, Grados/Gilmores are a match made in heaven. Grado owners owe it to themselves to check the gilmore out, and vice versa.

Sennheiser:
We had two pairs of sennheisers at the meet, the HD600 and the HD650s. I'll get it out of the way: I'm honestly not a fan of the HD600s. That infamous midrange veil is there, the bass is muddy/undetailed, and the highs can be splashy. In any case, Grados (especially the SR-225s) offer a much more neutral presentation to my ears. The HD650s, on the other hand, were a very different beast. It seems as if Sennheiser really listened to customer complaints regarding the previous 580/600s. Nevertheless, although for the most part that midrange veil is eliminated with the HD650s, it's still there to a certain degree. Of course, it's greatly improved over the HD600s, but there's still a hint of the midrange veil. The differences become more subtle depending on the quality of your source. Both phones really need a good source to sound their best, but this is the case with almost all phones. Perhaps a cable upgrade may further fix their problems, but I have to ask: why? The basic character of the phones will still be there, and one could have achieved happiness for less.

Thanks for a great time guys, I look forward to doing this again, perhaps during the summer.

 

[aroon]

i've also written up my impressions [with pictures, har]. they can be found on my website:

http://www.pureimaginary.com

as for the meet, i had an awesome time. the guys were really cool and listening to all that gear was a real treat. we gotta do this again this fall. big thanks to Tmesis for hosting and to andrzejpq for bringing all the gear headroom got us.

 

[daycart1]

Thanks for the impressions! So do you guys agree with Grado that the bowls improve the soundstage?

Pbgh is a nice town, when the temp is over 60 degrees, anyway.

 

[Cyberius]

Grado 225s with the flat pads are more tamed in the highs. On the other hand I still think they are bright. I got some strange looks when I called the 225s with the flats bright. The 225-flats definitely have better bass than the 125-bowls.

Keep in mind that I've mostly been using DT770 and DT880s so I'm used to what many consider to be a darker flavor, and I'm one of those people who get fatigue pretty easily.

It's not so much that I don't like grado's (I haven't sold the 125s), they really rock, but the Gratos don't like me.

Iron Maiden - Brave New World definitely sounded better on the SR125-Bowls than the SR225-Flats. I think the Flats sucked the life out of Bruce Dickensons vocals, but as andrzejpw mentioned at the meet, it's probably due to how the album was mixed. On everything else the 225Flats outclassed the 125Bowls.

I think it is a better produced album in terms of sound quality compared to most metal CDs, which are usually muddy and overcompressed. I use that Maiden CD, Ozzy's "No More Tears", and Limp Bizkits "My Way" tune as my reference CDs for rock. The guitar on the intro of My Way is just so delicate and real on the grados that I feel like I could just reach out and grab the sound out of the air in front of me with my hands.


I Did A/Bs on the Senn 650s and DT880s for quite awhile and I think they are in the same class, with a nod to the 650s for a more even sound spectrum and a bit faster timing. I still think the DT880s have the upper hand on female vocals and violins due to their sweeter high end, but for techo the 650s have better bass. Do I feel the need to get 650s???? I wouldn't mind having a set, but I don't think they're better enough to justify how much it would cost to upgrade to a new pair, especially considering the price I got on my 880s used. I think anyone who likes DT-880s, will definitely like the 650s.

Material used for the comparison was Sheila Chandra's - Roots and Wings, which had sweeter vocals on the 880s, but better percussion on the 650s (both in terms of bass and transients), Loreena McKennitt - Book of Secrets, which had better vocals and strings, but less bass on the 880s, and Anabolic Frolic's Happy2bHardcore Vol 7, which sounded better on the 650s due to having a bit more bass and a little bit faster timing than the 880s.


I've also come to the conclusion that I listen at lower SPLs than most people, so this may effect the performance and thus my perception of how the various phones sound.


The Bass CD I was using to show off my DT-770s was Techmaster PEB - Bass Computer. I think the 770s outclass most Car Subwoofers in terms of performance. And the real beauty is that you can turn the volume down to rather low SPL levels, and you can enjoy songs such as "Ultimate Subwoofer Test" as music, instead of for how much it can make your door panels rattle.


I liked the Senn 600s more than I though I would. I heard some 570s once, and I hated them, veil city. The 600s were nothing like the 570s. I prefered the 600s to Grados and thought they had a more balanced presentation, even against the flat pads. On the other hand, none of the Senns are built as tough as the Beyers.


We had a bass-off of Sony V6 vs DT-770s on an Enya tune with some really low pipe organ notes. I think the 770s did a better job of hitting the low frequency on the organ, with the Sony's hitting the low note almost as well, but doing a better job handling the harmonics of that low note, giving the Sony's an overall more realistic presentation.

I got the sense that the V6s lean towards fatigue, so I'll stick with the 770s, but I also think the Sony's are more suited as a do-it-all phone than the 770s.


I'm with andrzejpw wondering when beyer is going to get it right. Beyers are currently my main phones, but what I really want is some closed cans with 770s bass, and the 880 mids-highs.

 

[tmesis]

Hi guys. First off, I wanted to thank everyone for coming. A huge thanks from all of us to HeadRoom for letting us listen to their gear, and to andrzejpw for arranging for the loan. And my apologies to finleyville and jhawk1729 about my roommates(although it was my fault for forgetting to tell them about the meet). I enjoyed meeting all of you.

Rather than identifying subtle distinctions, I was mainly interested in forming general ideas of headphone characteristics. Some impressions from the meet:

*The Grados I listened to were SR60, 125, and 225. Much of the difference between the 125s and the 225s, I was told by andrzej, is attributable to the flat pads of the 225s and the bowl pads of the 125s.
I was pretty curious of the Grado sound before the meet. Based on what I had read of Grado phones, I hadn't expected to like them much. But I liked just about everything I heard through all three pairs of Grados, even with the sometimes shrill highs.

When Ozzy Osbourne's "No More Tears" and Iron Maiden's "Brave New World" played through Cyberius's S9000ES, his Gilmore 1.5, and finally through the Grados (mainly 125 and 2225), the combination instantly transformed this nerd into a bad-ass headbanger. Well, maybe not -- but at least a nerdy headbanger. Awesome stuff.

With classical tracks, mainly some choral sequences from Bach's St. John Passion and Beethoven's piano sonatas, neither pair of Grados made a huge impression, though I thought they sounded pretty good, and nowhere near unlistenable as I had half expected.

My biggest moment of headphone epiphany of the meet -- and perhaps the biggest I've had to date -- came toward the end of the meet while listening to Tom Waits's "Tom Traubert's Blues". Through the 225s, Waits's gritty, gravel-lined voice sprang to life, and curls of dive bar smoke clung to the microphone. When I put on the HD600s, I found that the Senns transformed the song into a soothing lullaby. Although still pleasant to listen to, the Senns seemed to have taken a lot of grit and Bukowski out of Tom Waits. What can I say -- I really dig both the Senn and the Grado sounds.

*Beyerdynamic 770 and 880 headphones. I liked the DT880s, though they didn't stand out in any one way, perhaps a testament to their neutrality. In a meet, I think it would be easy for phones like the 880s to get lost in the mix. Beyond this general impression, I can't say much without giving them a more extensive run. The 770s have killer bass, though on the tracks I listened to, much of the mid to high mid range seemed to be sucked out, making the phones less enjoyable than the others.

*HD650s: I expected the difference between HD600s and these to be pretty subtle. The difference turned out to be much less subtle than I had thought. The "Kreuzige" (Crucify) chorus from St. John passion is very dynamic, and challenging for headphones. The alto and tenor voices, which are sandwiched by and usually lost between the soprano and the bass, came forward and became much more articulate through the 650s than the 600s. The difference very much took me by surprise. With some other pieces, however, including a Beethoven piano sonata, the differences between the two Senns seemed to be more subtle.

*Amps: I find differences among amps to be pretty subtle, and didn't try very hard to establish them during the meet. However, I found the Cmoy to be impressive, delivering sounds cleanly and without apparent strain. I would have loved to A/B the Max with stepped attenuator with the other amps, but unfortunately didn't have the time.

Of course, most of these observations are fleeting impressions based on brief listening, and should be taken with enough grains of salt to melt the snow on Pittsburgh highways during winter time.

 

[andrzejpw]

Hey, did you happen to upload any picturesfrom the meet?

 

[tmesis]

I have the pictures but I'm not quite sure what to do with them. I guess I need to set up an account with a site with high bandwidth limit? Any suggestions?

[edit] Hajime graciously offered to host the pics, so if anyone has objections to his pic being posted, let him know...

 

[Hajime]

Here are the pictures Han sent me:

 

[tmesis]

The pics, from top to bottom:

1. Cyberius's Cmoy in a cigar box atop his Gilmore amp.

2. Sources, all Cyberius's. The bottom one is S9000ES.

3. Marantz 6000 OSE with HeadRoom Little on top. HD650s in the background.

4. The complete bass immersion: HD650s for the ears and HD600 for the neck.

5. Left: andrzej's NEC - ART DI/O - Gilmore V2 (?) setup with Outlaw PCA ICs.
Right: HeadRoom Max with stepped attenuator.

6. jhawk's ibook connected to his newly built and as yet uncased Cmoy and HeadRoom BitHead.
Bottom: Grado Sr60, Senn HD280, and Sony CD780.

7. Beyer DT880 delivering joy and smiles to all who dare put them on.

8. Beyer DT770s, even with less than ideal positioning, will deliver thumping bass.

9. "The secret stash"

10. Group pic, taken just before our group hug (kidding).

And that's all I have from our humble meet.

 

[Harrath]

I can't believe I missed it. I was visiting a friend in Squirrel Hill when I read the thead about the meet....2 hours too late. Oh well, looks like a good time was had by all.

 

[jpelg]

Nice, y'all. Looks like you had some neat equipment to listen to, and had a good time doing it. Thanks for the pics.

Please post more impressions. Don't be shy

.

 

[andrzejpw]

I'm the guy in the blue shirt who's caught in the middle of a goofy smile.

Anyways, I took a bit of time with Cyberius's 9000es with its dual outputs to compare interconnects. I wanted to see if I could hear a difference between compareable cables. I swear I could hear a slight difference between the outlaws and the fusions. With the outlaws, it almost sounded as if there was a slightly muddled bass boost compared to the fusions. It wasn't anything that I think I could pick up on with DBT, so I could be smoking something.

 

[finleyville]

If you are smoking something...can you pass it along?