[fiddler]

  How about we just agree to disagree?
The X2 is neutral, but does have somewhat of a boosted bass.
 

Hah, if we took this:
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/PhilipsFidelioX2.pdf
 
and ironed out the bass hump somewhat...
 
we'd end up with a slightly darker version of this: 
 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicDT880600ohm.pdf
 

 

[Currawong]

 

[obsidyen]

I really like the group here. Lots of good conversation. Obviously, we all like this headphone, so maybe someone can help.

I'm looking for a good closed-back headphone for 50/50 music gaming. I want the Oppo Pm3, since it's very neutral and a planar, so its presentation would be quite different, and a great complement to the X2. The drawback is thar it's $400, while I can get the NAD Viso HP50 and the Sennheiser Momentum 2.0 for about $200. On the higher end is the Fostex TH600,which I'm assuming would be a slight upgrade at $600 new, $450 used on the classifieds here.

Can anyone assist. Not sure if I should get something warmer, like the Sennheiser, get something neutral like the Oppo, or something "better," like the Fostex.

Thanks!

 
I had Fidelio X2 and I have PM-3. I think PM-3 is a great headphone. It's mid-focused with very tight and present bass. Highs are a bit recessed but that's good for long listening sessions because it prevents ear fatigue. The weakest area of X2 is the mids (not saying it's very weak, it's just weaker compared to other frequencies) so Oppo's mid focused sound signature will complement it well. Also, PM-3 has amazing imaging and great transient response. Attack and decay are also superb. In these areas, it's better than X2. X2, being open, has a wider soundstage. 
 
I don't know about NAD but with Momentum 2, what you'll get is a very similar headphone to X2 which will feel like the same old with narrower soundstage. TH600, whilst having impressive bass, sounds strident and hurts ears after a while. Highs are too harsh and can't be tolerated at all, not by me. It kind of attacks your ears. Besides isolation of TH600 is poor, it leaks so much sound for a closed back, I'd say it's more like semi-open. I think PM-3 sounds more refined and better than both Momentum and TH600 and its isolation is much superior compared to TH600.
 
I would heartily recomment PM-3 as an alternative with a different yet still forgiving sound signature. Mind you PM-3 usually reveals bad recordings to you, it just doesn't make your ears hurt whilst doing that. X2 + PM-3 + a good IEM (e.g. Earsonics Velvet) + a good amp (e.g. Chord Mojo) will cover all your headphone needs.

 

[lltfdaniel]

I also have x2 and pm-3 and really i prefer the pm-3.
 
Sounds life like varying on track and superb.
 
Yeh and isolation is really good as well, i had these on high volume and with cups faced downwards you can hardly hear them at 0.5 meter distance.

 

[obsidyen]

  I also have x2 and pm-3 and really i prefer the pm-3.
 
Sounds life like varying on track and superb.
 
Yeh and isolation is really good as well, i had these on high volume and with cups faced downwards you can hardly hear them at 0.5 meter distance.

 
I agree... I often get these  moments where I think "wow, I didn't know this track could sound so good." That never happened with X2. I think it's due to the life-like sound you mentioned.
 
I wish Philips made a planar-magnetic headphone. 

 

[lltfdaniel]

Yea i know.. after about 15 something headphones costing £200-300 the oppo pm 3 is different and yea it is that life like sound i mentioned.
 
The x2 doesn't sound like that nor do my other headphones.
 
Sounds better on a higher volume.
 
This is an end game headphone for some people or feel rather impressed but not everyone.
 
Sound good with tracks like this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKpxuHLUzuA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONZ3rz780ug https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DonHa4pySsM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jclCjcTzu4g# https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JhwxTen6yA .
 
I like the bass of pm 3 soo deep and tight.
 
Lovely sound quality.

 

[Uberclocked]

This is now officially the PM-3 circlejerk thread.

 

[lltfdaniel]

Nah its alright i didn't intend to derail the whole thread.

 

[Pianist]

  How about we just agree to disagree?
The X2 is neutral, but does have somewhat of a boosted bass.

And a boosted treble. Or, more precisely, somewhat excessive energy around 9-10 kHz. I wouldn't go as far as to say that X2 has recessed mids, because the lower mids are actually very present and full, while the upper mids are generally neutral to a bit laid back. However, because of the extra bumps in the bass and treble, and maybe also because of the angled drivers, the mids can seem a bit withdrawn/distant at times.

 

[fiddler]

  And a boosted treble. Or, more precisely, somewhat excessive energy around 9-10 kHz. I wouldn't go as far as to say that X2 has recessed mids, because the lower mids are actually very present and full, while the upper mids are generally neutral to a bit laid back. However, because of the extra bumps in the bass and treble, and maybe also because of the angled drivers, the mids can seem a bit withdrawn/distant at times.

I think we're hearing the headphones the same, and we're just different in terms of where our preferences lie, and how we pick 'em. I'm a steady "one signature" kind of guy, and you're a real player who wants to try 'em all... I just respect that you love a pretty broad range of headphones, and yet you still hear the differences in a rational way without clouded judgment, as it often happens when we are infatuated with gear.
 
... said the fiddler to the pianist.

 

[Mbeeching]

My X2's arrived today and for all the praise they receive I'm really not sure about them yet. Admittedly it's a little soon to pass judgement.
My current cans are Shure 1440's and the X2s sound very loose at the moment, the bass is all over the place.  On tracks like Sledgehammer (DSD64 format) these X2's just cannot shift the low notes fast enough. There is a pleasant speaker-like quality to them but they also seem to lack definition in the mids and highs.  Perhaps it will grow on me but it almost feels like my iDAC2 isn't being used to its full potential.
 
Grr... I need sound signature somewhere between the 1440 and X2!

 

[fiddler]

  My X2's arrived today and for all the praise they receive I'm really not sure about them yet. Admittedly it's a little soon to pass judgement.
My current cans are Shure 1440's and the X2s sound very loose at the moment, the bass is all over the place.  On tracks like Sledgehammer (DSD64 format) these X2's just cannot shift the low notes fast enough. There is a pleasant speaker-like quality to them but they also seem to lack definition in the mids and highs.  Perhaps it will grow on me but it almost feels like my iDAC2 isn't being used to its full potential.
 
Grr... I need sound signature somewhere between the 1440 and X2!

Hmm. Obviously give them a week of intensive listening, but there's quite a few other headphones that fit inbetween those two tonally. I would consider HD600 on the warmer side closer to the X2, and the K701 on the more analytical side closer to Shure. Or if you want mostly neutral sound with a good deal of treble boost maybe the DT880...

 

[Mbeeching]

  Hmm. Obviously give them a week of intensive listening, but there's quite a few other headphones that fit inbetween those two tonally. I would consider HD600 on the warmer side closer to the X2, and the K701 on the more analytical side closer to Shure. Or if you want mostly neutral sound with a good deal of treble boost maybe the DT880...
 
 

 
Yeah I need more than a couple of hours on them, it's very easy to say something sounds wrong when you're conditioned to a particular headphone.
 
I did try the K702's a few years ago but found them very uncomfortable, hard to drive and genre limited.  After paying a hefty re-stocking fee (not used to that in the UK) I returned them. A few months later I took a punt on the Shure 1440's and have been pleased with them but they need more low end punch for a lot of recordings.
 
Must admit I still find myself using my ancient Sennheiser 590's from time to time (15 years?).  They sound like trash for a couple of minutes as the mid-range is so recessed but they're so comfy and an easy listen.
 
The X2's could still go back as Philips have a 28 day return policy but I'm definitely going to give them a fair chance.
Other cans on the shortlist... PM3, MDR-Z7, Audioquest Nighthawk, Audeze EL-8 (open or closed).  If only I could try them all...
I don't think I can bring myself to buy the HD600, all the owners sound content but want something more

 

 

[Uberclocked]

   
Yeah I need more than a couple of hours on them, it's very easy to say something sounds wrong when you're conditioned to a particular headphone.
 
I did try the K702's a few years ago but found them very uncomfortable, hard to drive and genre limited.  After paying a hefty re-stocking fee (not used to that in the UK) I returned them. A few months later I took a punt on the Shure 1440's and have been pleased with them but they need more low end punch for a lot of recordings.
 
Must admit I still find myself using my ancient Sennheiser 590's from time to time (15 years?).  They sound like trash for a couple of minutes as the mid-range is so recessed but they're so comfy and an easy listen.
 
The X2's could still go back as Philips have a 28 day return policy but I'm definitely going to give them a fair chance.
Other cans on the shortlist... PM3, MDR-Z7, Audioquest Nighthawk, Audeze EL-8 (open or closed).  If only I could try them all...
I don't think I can bring myself to buy the HD600, all the owners sound content but want something more

 

Those are some VERY controversial cans you got there.

 

[Hi-Fi EDU]

  I don't think I can bring myself to buy the HD600, all the owners sound content but want something more

 

 
But here's what I've learned. Many of those owners that want something more and actually try something more, wind up returning back to the HD600/650 (multiple times for some). That definitely speaks volumes. Only time will tell if the X2 will have that same consistent "return" as it's only been out for a fraction of the time that the other two have.