[Rayon]

Can you tell us more about your USB set up? I'm really interested to hear how you've optimized it!

Btw I now did some A-B between that cable and regular USB-C cable that came with my phone. I've always been super sceptical about USB cables, but the difference is massive. That USB-C cable sounds distorted and irritate my ears. This custom micro-usb cable sounds open and dynamic (yesterday I thought that it sounded even better than from Poly/microsd, but I thought I was crazy). The microusb cable is not only much thicker and have better looking connectors, but it has ferrite core slapped on it.

I'll try to isolate the source of difference. I ordered these and will try out if it makes a difference: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005378481842.html . Based on what I read, they should filter out some noise from computer. I'll also try different usb-c and microusb cables to see Mojo's usb ports behave differently.

Anyway, just responded to you. Maybe better to continue this in Mojo thread as it's getting off-topic

 

[Patraputt]

Okay, after a long listening period, it seems like PGGB-RT (8fS, Extended, Speed) is performing very well on my system (JBL 305p mkii, IFI Zen V2) but there is something missing. I think it's "musicality". There is no doubt that PGGB has an analytical characteristic in its tune, but I think that's not enough. I can clearly hear HQPlayer delivering more "music" than PGGB. Rectify me if I'm wrong.

 

[taipan254]

Okay, after a long listening period, it seems like PGGB-RT (8fS, Extended, Speed) is performing very well on my system (JBL 305p mkii, IFI Zen V2) but there is something missing. I think it's "musicality". There is no doubt that PGGB has an analytical characteristic in its tune, but I think that's not enough. I can clearly hear HQPlayer delivering more "music" than PGGB. Rectify me if I'm wrong.

There is no right and wrong here, IMO. But there are a lot of variables to control for - with PGGB-RT, it is the noise shaping and mode. With my equipment (see below), I hear a large improvement from "maximize speed" to "maximize quality". If you're computer can't run "maximize quality" (this was totally me, until recently), using HQP can make sense.

How one uses HQP also matters - PCM vs. DSD, filters, dithering / noise shaping options.

Further, the synergy of your software with your DAC matters - some DACs respond to PCM better than DSD (e.g., Chord DACs). Other DACs is more of a toss-up (e.g., Holo). There's a lot of arguing about which DACs perform better with DSD (obviously Cayin RU7 benefits greatly from being fed DSD, others would argue that AKM and Burr Brown DACs do as well... no real consensus with ESS DACs).

Lastly, I'm finding RF / EMI "hygiene" matters a lot. I use a lot of Audiowise products, and employ batteries to isolate my power. I've also used low-noise, low-power network endpoints powered by low noise linear power supplies. I live in NYC and our AC power is quite dirty. The best way to assess the quality of your power is to see if you notice improvements in audio quality at night (when community AC power usage dips) vs. during the day. I've found I get a more consistent experience using batteries where I can.

How you upgrade / make improvements is also a guessing game unless one employs a highly systematic approach to system building, which can be costly in both time and money. I've found an easier way to start is to buy the best battery powered DAC / AMP you can afford that has a TOSLINK input as a starting point. For me, that was the Chord Mojo 2. It has excellent jitter rejection over all inputs, but has the benefit of galvanic isolation via TOSLINK so no EMI or RFI noise travels through from your computer to your DAC. Of course, you are limited on sample rate, but at least you have a strong idea of what your DAC / AMP sounds like from a baseline perspective with headphones. Then adding USB into the mix and upsampling, you'll gauge the differences - more RF and EMI noise seeps in, but your DAC gets fed with what is hopefully an improved stream of bits from your upsampler of choice. With your active monitors, you could also experiment by powering them off of batteries / inverters.

In any case I hope my perspectives, based on my experience in my system, help you better contextualize your impressions. Again, there is no right and wrong - there are so many variables to control for that you have to maximize your musical enjoyment based on your system and constraints.

 

[kennyb123]

In any case I hope my perspectives, based on my experience in my system, help you better contextualize your impressions. Again, there is no right and wrong - there are so many variables to control for that you have to maximize your musical enjoyment based on your system and constraints.

Your entire post was excellent.

 

[Patraputt]

Does PGGB add pre-ringing?

 

[chelseafc]

I use 16fs 24b pggb files with my poly/mojo2. I process them at 256 bit with auto settings. I use 24b as I often play them back through an src-dx which is 24b limited. The results through the poly/mojo2 are incredible. I think it must be the result of the short signal path. I am not sure that there is further processing by the mojo 2.

This might sound crazy, but I am finding M2 soundiing better with PGGB than DAVE in my setup.
In fact, it sounds better to my ears through the M Scaler as well.
So far, I could not come up with an elegant solution to keep both PGGB and streaming chains other than physically swapping between SRC-DX and MS DBNC outputs into OPTO-DX.
PGGBs do not sound as good through the MS, even in a bypass mode.

 

[Progisus]

This might sound crazy, but I am finding M2 soundiing better with PGGB than DAVE in my setup.
In fact, it sounds better to my ears through the M Scaler as well.
So far, I could not come up with an elegant solution to keep both PGGB and streaming chains other than physically swapping between SRC-DX and MS DBNC outputs into OPTO-DX.
PGGBs do not sound as good through the MS, even in a bypass mode.

I’m finding my mscaler is not getting as much use lately. I have switched from roon to logitech media server with a squeeze streamer. Although this can play back through the mscaler I am finding for Tidal and Qobuz that I prefer to not upscale. My local files with pggb still are superior. I have my m2 connected to an allo usbridge and src-dx served by the squeeze server for pggb files at the bedside. The mscaler is connected to a roon streamer for music exploration. I have not heard a dave but if the m2 is anywhere close I made a lucky purchase.

 

[chelseafc]

I’m finding my mscaler is not getting as much use lately. I have switched from roon to logitech media server with a squeeze streamer. Although this can play back through the mscaler I am finding for Tidal and Qobuz that I prefer to not upscale. My local files with pggb still are superior. I have my m2 connected to an allo usbridge and src-dx served by the squeeze server for pggb files at the bedside. The mscaler is connected to a roon streamer for music exploration. I have not heard a dave but if the m2 is anywhere close I made a lucky purchase.

The catch is that M2 does not sound nearly as good as DAVE if not upscaled, the difference is profound.
Real-time or offline upscaling completely turns the tables, and I am now seriously considering selling DAVE.
I might even go as far as duplicating my OPTO-DX chain and switch between streaming and PGGB on the integrated amp.

 

[Progisus]

The catch is that M2 does not sound nearly as good as DAVE if not upscaled

Totally agree that the magic happens when upscaled. To me it even sounds better when the pggb files are played from an sdcard in a poly. I wonder how the upcoming quartet scaler will sound compared to pggb?

 

[chelseafc]

The catch is that M2 does not sound nearly as good as DAVE if not upscaled, the difference is profound.
Real-time or offline upscaling completely turns the tables, and I am now seriously considering selling DAVE.
I might even go as far as duplicating my OPTO-DX chain and switch between streaming and PGGB on the integrated amp.

Have you compared logitech media server to others, like Audirvāna?
I never tried logitech, but finding audirvana sounding a lot better than roon.

 

[Progisus]

Have you compared logitech media server to others, like Audirvāna?
I never tried logitech, but finding audirvana sounding a lot better than roon.

Yes… I have Audirvana 3.5 and to me it sounds better than roon. It’s functionality can not compete with roon unfortunately. I have not tried Studio though. Squeeze to my ears is still superior. I was a proponent of roon but as I find my way around squeeze’s material skin I find it easier to switch. If roon can improve their sound their gui would have me back in a heart beat. I am a roon lifer. I hope the Harmon takeover can change their attitude.

 

[chelseafc]

Yes… I have Audirvana 3.5 and to me it sounds better than roon. It’s functionality can not compete with roon unfortunately. I have not tried Studio though. Squeeze to my ears is still superior. I was a proponent of roon but as I find my way around squeeze’s material skin I find it easier to switch. If roon can improve their sound their gui would have me back in a heart beat. I am a roon lifer. I hope the Harmon takeover can change their attitude.

What do I need to run a squeeze server? I am interested to give it a try.
I am also a roon lifer, but lately finding its much lauded radio function inferior to anything else, including Amazon or apple music, as I keep listening to the same tracks over and over.
Not holding my breath for Harmon taking it further.

 

[taipan254]

What do I need to run a squeeze server? I am interested to give it a try.
I am also a roon lifer, but lately finding its much lauded radio function inferior to anything else, including Amazon or apple music, as I keep listening to the same tracks over and over.
Not holding my breath for Harmon taking it further.

FWIW I had trouble playing pggb files with LMS. LMS sounds awesome for native sample rate. Easily my favorite. But couldn’t for the life of me get it to work with 16Fs content. I use HQP on pass thru for PGGB files and upscale through HQP for streaming.

Just download LMS on your server and then set up a squeeze end point either on your server or networked endpoint.

Also Dan from Ausiowise has been banging the table on his blog about Mojo 2 superiority to Dave using PGGb files and his solutions. His blog posts were the primary inspiration for purchasing Mojo 2 and some of his other equipment. I’m very happy with the results.

 

[chelseafc]

FWIW I had trouble playing pggb files with LMS. LMS sounds awesome for native sample rate. Easily my favorite. But couldn’t for the life of me get it to work with 16Fs content. I use HQP on pass thru for PGGB files and upscale through HQP for streaming.

Just download LMS on your server and then set up a squeeze end point either on your server or networked endpoint.

Also Dan from Ausiowise has been banging the table on his blog about Mojo 2 superiority to Dave using PGGb files and his solutions. His blog posts were the primary inspiration for purchasing Mojo 2 and some of his other equipment. I’m very happy with the results.

I hated HQPlayer with all my guts and was relived to rid myself of all that tinkering and hiccups once I got the MS.
Hustle aside, MS sounded far superior to HQPlayer in my subjective opinion.
I‘ve been listening to the M-scaled M2 for a few days now and not missing DAVE for a second, seriously considering selling it.
By comparison, I could only listen to MS/TT2 for a few minutes before going back to MS/DAVE In panic mode.

Anyhow, back to the HQPlayer.
Can you set it up to pass PGGB untouched and upsample anything below 705/768 without constantly changing settings?

 

[genefruit]

Anyhow, back to the HQPlayer.
Can you set it up to pass PGGB untouched and upsample anything below 705/768 without constantly changing settings?

Not that I'm aware of but I wish...