[The Jester]

Strange then that several of their studios use cables from a mob called Audioconnections ?
And no, I don’t believe everything I read wherever it’s printed, read reviews and opinions both positive and negative and try and make as informed a choice as possible as to what, and what not to listen to, after that it’s a personal choice.

 

[gregorio]

What “Audioconnections” mob? Cables are made up by the installers in the case of a refit or by the in-house Abbey Road Studios tech department in the case of replacements. Again though, out of standard cable (Van Damme mostly) and standard Neutrik connectors.

G

 

[The Jester]

Google is your friend.
Helps if I get the name right …
Studio Connections …..

 

[gregorio]

Google is your friend.

How is google more of a friend than actually working at Abbey Road Studios and seeing and using their cabling for myself? And incidentally a number of other top class commercial studios.

As Google not only serves up the facts but also a great deal of misleading marketing and quite a lot of entirely fake news, then it’s only your friend if you read the information presented carefully and research more widely. For example, I can’t find where Studio Connections explicitly states that Abbey Road Studios use their cables, they only (and misleadingly) imply that’s the case.

Instead of typing “Abbey Road Cables” or “Studio Connections” into Google, try “abbey road studios cables”!

G

 

[The Jester]

True, conflicting information everywhere, hence the thread starter’s “impression thread” in bold type and a few pages of discussion on impressions,
Your views on cables, Dacs, etc are well stated in the Sound Science forum and your trying of “a Nordost cable” and noting little to no difference comes as no surprise, I tried their lowest tier cables that use the same basic design as their crazy expensive ones on loan and returned them, convincing myself I didn’t need to spend money on cables and the good quality “basic” cables I was using were fine, only to find after a week or so that there was “something missing” and ended up with Nordost interconnect and speaker cables, that was five years ago and I’ve had no desire to try anything else since,
Each to their own.

 

[gregorio]

True, conflicting information everywhere,

Not regarding cables there isn’t. The ONLY place there’s conflicting information about cables is within the audiophile world. You won’t find all the conflicting information caused by audiophile marketing in the pro-audio world or telecommunications world for example.

hence the thread starter’s “impression thread”

How does making it an “impression thread” stop conflicting information? Just banning science and the actual facts doesn’t stop the conflicting information, it just stops the false marketing being challenged on the basis of actual facts.

your trying of “a Nordost cable” and noting little to no difference comes as no surprise

I didn’t just try a Nordhost cable, I also comprehensively tested it. And, it obviously shouldn’t come as a surprise, as there has never been any reliable evidence to the contrary.

… convincing myself I didn’t need to spend money on cables and the good quality “basic” cables I was using were fine, only to find after a week or so that there was “something missing” and ended up with Nordost interconnect and speaker cables

What was the “something missing”?

More importantly though, if there were something missing with standard cables, then as the recordings you’re listening to have been recorded and produced with standard cables, then that “something” is already missing from the recording and I presume you’re not claiming that an audiophile cable can somehow recreate what’s not actually in the recording you’re reproducing?

Focusing on the actual facts, instead of only the simple logic above, the audio signal is the same, there was nothing added or missing from it.

G

 

[The Jester]

If I could describe the “something missing” I would try,
I’m neither an audio engineer or a neuroscientist so trying to explain what causes for want of a better term “an emotional connection” with the music isn’t easy, from limited reading “emotional response” to music is more the emotional side of the brain vs the cognitive side, and not everyone is the same in their response and reaction, maybe in your work as an engineer spending countless hours listening, adjusting and optimising is all done with the cognitive senses ?
I don’t know, what I do know is I get more enjoyment from music now than I did 10 or 20 years ago, Maybe my speakers back then wouldn’t have produced the same results ?
What I know for sure is I’m buying more music than I ever did in the past.

 

[gregorio]

I’m neither an audio engineer or a neuroscientist so trying to explain what causes for want of a better term “an emotional connection” with the music isn’t easy,

Cables don’t carry emotions or even specifically music, they just carry an electrical signal, that’s it, nothing more. One can have an emotional response to a cable though, to say it’s appearance, it’s brand name or to how much it costs. That must be what you’re missing because they don’t affect the signal they’re carrying, which is why commercial studios don’t use audiophile cables.

maybe in your work as an engineer spending countless hours listening, adjusting and optimising is all done with the cognitive senses ?

Not quite sure what you mean by cognitive senses? Certainly we spend countless hours listening, adjusting and optimising but what is it that you think we’re listening, adjusting and optimising for? Sure, some of it is technical issues but mostly it’s adjustments and optimisations to make it subjectively better, to increase the emotional response.

G

 

[The Jester]

Cables don’t carry emotions or even specifically music, they just carry an electrical signal, that’s it, nothing more. One can have an emotional response to a cable though, to say it’s appearance, it’s brand name or to how much it costs. That must be what you’re missing because they don’t affect the signal they’re carrying, which is why commercial studios don’t use audiophile cables.

No, more just budget in a totally different situation, home systems don’t use much in the way of cables, a couple of hundred $$ on speaker cables when you’re only looking at maybe 2 x 2 metres going to however many $100’s or $1,000’s spent on a pair of speakers, is way different to tens or hundreds of metres I’m guessing there is in a studio environment, even if there was any difference in cables that cost $50 per metre over $10 per metre it couldn’t be justified as the $10 cable would be adequate and any discretionary extra costs would be better spent elsewhere,
Taken as a pure hypothetical, even if there was a proven improvement would anyone approve the 5x cost increase in a business environment ?,
“How much ?, can we ask any more for the end product ?, how many customers would notice the difference ? …. Forget it”.

Not quite sure what you mean by cognitive senses? Certainly we spend countless hours listening, adjusting and optimising but what is it that you think we’re listening, adjusting and optimising for? Sure, some of it is technical issues but mostly it’s adjustments and optimisations to make it subjectively better, to increase the emotional response.

G

Encouraging to hear that you take the time to make a recording as good as is possible, compared to the popular “ Loudness war” and the overuse of compression limiting dynamic range used in so much of today’s popular music.

 

[whitedragem]

No, more just budget in a totally different situation, home systems don’t use much in the way of cables, a couple of hundred $$ on speaker cables when you’re only looking at maybe 2 x 2 metres going to however many $100’s or $1,000’s spent on a pair of speakers, is way different to tens or hundreds of metres I’m guessing there is in a studio environment, even if there was any difference in cables that cost $50 per metre over $10 per metre it couldn’t be justified as the $10 cable would be adequate and any discretionary extra costs would be better spent elsewhere,
Taken as a pure hypothetical, even if there was a proven improvement would anyone approve the 5x cost increase in a business environment ?,
“How much ?, can we ask any more for the end product ?, how many customers would notice the difference ? …. Forget it”.


Encouraging to hear that you take the time to make a recording as good as is possible, compared to the popular “ Loudness war” and the overuse of compression limiting dynamic range used in so much of today’s popular music.

I think basic aspects of these ‘arguments’ are all to quickly swept under the rug (we are all masters regarding our own subjective opinions-ignoring and dismissing facts we care not to include in our personal worldview).

I see people argue silly notions that to me are just ludicrous, but to them ‘scientifically sound’, and whilst true “science is all about measurements’ not all aspects of our hearing are scientific (requires 100% reproducability:sorry-people are more diverse than this notion entails).

the xlr cable in a studio that passes one instruments ‘mono’ (single channel) of sound, like a river, flows into the ocean that is a mixing board.
a mixing board allows producers/engineers to make a whisper louder than the rest of the musicians/instruments AND does so in multichannel, with panning and delicate placement.
there is a reason a drum set might have fourteen microphones.. the echo of the room, the decay of the sound frequencies over time.

engineering excellence pushes well past the dynamic range of any single microphone, and the TOTAL dynamic range and stage (with microdetails) is then optimised to the range and capaility of the downstream hardwares capabilities (eg CD/Bluray/SACD etc)
the final result is something that can recreate much more than the individual parts.
great playback systems reveal the nuance (WELL)
-in fact this was one of the aspects of audio science that got me into this ‘hobby’ in the first place.

cables make a difference, sure..
like any hardware builder who has rotated parts to tweak a components’ sound- not every change makes any scientifically measurable ‘audio difference’, yet they rotate the parts (not necessarily just to save $$) to tune the sound towards ‘more pleasurable’
sure this is my subjective opinion. but I’d argue my views, stemming from a highly ’scientific’ mind are sound by logic, and I will happily alter my world perception to align.. (subjective reality is all we each have, yes?)
the fact that different systems respond to different cables in different ways (and components to parts rotation too), we are all still learning..
its a fun ride and a great school to play around in..

but yeah, cables after EVERYTHING ELSE.

edit: my inference was that home playback of the final ‘mastered product’ is vastly beyond the range /need of any given (single) xlr cable being used for a small ‘pieceof the pie’ @ the studio.
and xlr cables flog generic home parts… hmmmm!!

 

[gregorio]

even if there was any difference in cables that cost $50 per metre over $10 per metre it couldn’t be justified as the $10 cable would be adequate and any discretionary extra costs would be better spent elsewhere.

Yes, if there were a difference then it could be justified. As there isn’t a difference though, then no studio is going to pay $50 a meter, if $5 a meter performs the same.

Taken as a pure hypothetical, even if there was a proven improvement would anyone approve the 5x cost increase in a business environment ?

Yes, pretty much all of the top studios would. They’ve spent many millions/10’s of millions, another a few thousand even a few tens of thousands is relatively peanuts, if there were actually an improvement.

how many customers would notice the difference ?

None at all, unless you told them one cable cost 10 or 100 times more than the other.

and whilst true “science is all about measurements’ not all aspects of our hearing are scientific

But we’re not measuring “hearing”, we’re measuring audio performance.

(requires 100% reproducability:sorry-people are more diverse than this notion entails).

But we’re not trying to reproduce people, we’re trying to reproduce an audio signal/sound pressure wave. And obviously, if we couldn’t reproduce 100% every time, then we couldn’t mix or master all those fine details because they’d be different every time.

there is a reason a drum set might have fourteen microphones.. the echo of the room, the decay of the sound frequencies over time.

No, it’s because the instruments that comprise a drum kit are typically processed significantly differently. For example, hi-hats are processed significantly differently to the kick drum and the snare drum differently again. So we need separate mic inputs to be able to achieve this.

engineering excellence pushes well past the dynamic range of any single microphone, and the TOTAL dynamic range and stage (with microdetails) is then optimised to the range and capaility of the downstream hardwares capabilities (eg CD/Bluray/SACD etc)

Unfortunately again: No, it’s the opposite, the total dynamic range is almost always significantly less than the dynamic range of any single mic. Of course it can depend on the mic but even a typical studio mic from 60 years ago will have a dynamic range significantly greater than the total dynamic range because, we do NOT mix to the capability of CD, Blu-ray, SACD, etc., or anywhere even vaguely close. We mix to a dynamic range which is defined by human hearing, within a range that is “comfortable”. The vast majority of commercial music releases have a dynamic range of around 45dB or less, the most dynamic (some symphonies), can have a dynamic range up to about 60dB, which is roughly about 1,000 times less than the theoretical dynamic range of CD.

not every change makes any scientifically measurable ‘audio difference’, yet they rotate the parts (not necessarily just to save $$) to tune the sound towards ‘more pleasurable’
sure this is my subjective opinion.

If there’s no measurable audio difference, then there is no difference. A DAC, cable, etc., has no human subjectivity, give it the same audio signal and it will do exactly the same thing every time. Not so with humans of course, because our perception changes and our preferences change. But again, obviously we’re measuring the audio performance of these components, not the individual human responses to them. I find this apparent confusion quite bizarre, there isn’t anything other than an audio measurement, that’s what digital audio is. How an individual might perceive/prefer that performance is a completely different thing and obviously varies from person to person. I can only assume that decades of audiophile marketing, to deliberately confuse this issue has been and continues to be successful with a portion of the audiophile community.

the fact that different systems respond to different cables in different ways (and components to parts rotation too),

But that’s not a fact, different systems respond exactly the same way, assuming of course that it’s the right cable for the job. If they did respond differently, we’d never have developed national or international telecommunications.

we are all still learning..

Many thousands of scientists/engineers discovered this stuff a century or so ago. Maybe the audiophile industry is a century or more behind everyone else and “are all still learning” what other audio industries have known for decades?

G

 

[whitedragem]

the 'filters' are STRONG on this one....

We have subjective reality and facts we find to corroborate our beliefs.
Some people have beliefs that change (via education) over time..

some people argue to understand.. some argue to show how intelligent we need to believe that they are...
doesn't change the reality, objectively speaking.

I think it is fair to say that we could waste a lot of time,.. and whether we are experts at being ignorant, of course we would never know.
Greggorio does a good job to educate me so, so I suppose my shortfalls in knowledge, based on someone elses' beliefs, need be changed.

I find when I listen to people and take on board a point of view, I have a chance of WIDENING MY PERSPECTIVE.
I feel this would put a person in a better place to figure out fact/fiction... but the objective evidence, certainly in the science threads, is that the blind lead and the ignorant follow.
We do this for different reasons, my ignorance (by the reasoning of others) is that I want to feel 'ego good' to spend MORE MONEY on things that don't actually matter.
My madness is so strong, that I just change my filters to 'imagine' many experiences..

The challenge to this notion, I would put out, is that of the two of us, (assuming we both have the faculty of reason and knowledge gathering) surely the one who is willing to listen and consider the viewpoints of others or 'thinks outside the box' to gain understanding, might have a great imagination.

Tonight, I listen to a setup with most of my worst hifi bits in the chain.
It sounds the best it has ever sounded, and is some of the best sounding audio I have ever heard.
The parts I have rotated in (ancient budget DAC/ancient mid tier source/and 'a few other things that I know to cripple the 'total sound of a system') is objectively reasons to find a worse performing musical system.
Yet, honestly, it sounds brilliant and I am enjoying it thoroughly (no joke). How? because one thing was improved (okay maybe two, but one of them COULDN't make a difference according to 'the masses')...
I know of 'live and let live' and the problem with people who assume they are 'helping' others by shouting out mistruths (and declaring they be truths) is tht is is misleading and misguiding...
of course there are two sides on this coin/fence, and both parties would/should be entitled to feel a want to 'help/save' others when they set out on an audio journey...

I suppose it comes down to 'an opinion is worth something when asked for', 'given freely it is 'priced fairly', for the value it may hold to the receiver.. (who isn't asking for it)..
I have no idea why some on headfi need to run around from thread to thread and dismiss things that they do not find true.. surely they are champions of their own cause..
they can't be moderated.. they think their subjective truths are objective facts...

I know my subjective truths are subjective truths.. but I also know that the world is a dynamic, huge, incredible place where many things, understood & unknown play out.
I am quite content knowing that I do not know all that is fact, but for someone I see as ignorant to always have quote wars with me, when they full well know that I do not agree with them, like they are trying to save me,.. I do them the favour of not trying to force feed them my beliefs.. I too could quote (them) constantly and show how many ASSUMPTIONS and fallacies they take as foundation or have a poor grasp on... but I don't on the basis of 'to each their own'.
What amazes me is when people just delete the fact that many many many many other people have experiences that corroborate the truths (not found by some) and simply write it off..

I reiterate- 'the filters are strong' on some people.
The hard truth is the audio world has a lot of tech to navigate, a lot of concepts to grasp, and too many (FAKE) authority figures to spew mistruths, elegantly even, in ways that makes the fence sitters just go 'these people are ALL mad.

There is a LOT OF casual readers who would never create an account, mostly cause they would be afraid to associate with the types that are willing to argue these notions.

My audio journey has been a long one. I do not spend a lot of time arguing with people against their posts, my motivation is 'towards musical excellence'.
Sometimes I am fortunate enough to find it.
Do all DACs sound the same,.. yes. (its true if you can't tell a difference)
Do cables make a difference.. yes (its true if you CAN tell a difference)

As this is a Nordost thread, it would be antisocial/anti Nordost to try and BS that CABLES DO NOT ALTER THE SOUND CAPABILITIES OF A SYSTEM.
I agree it may not be YOUR EXPERIENCE.. but then arguing to make YOUR OPINION 'the only sound/sane' opinion thus given (at the expense of ALL others, being contrary to every other post), I'd write off as
Does YOUR SYSTEM allow you to 'see' the difference.
I have had cables in some setups do little, and yet range so completely in other setups as to be either a 'win' or a 'get rid of it quick' situation...

I suppose my willingness to try and to not be invested in the outcome, helps remove some bias, but I won't deny, that based on previous Nordost experience, they are the only cable I would buy, blindly (untested) and know that I will forever have a use for just such a piece of occult/magic technology.

How about we leave the egos at the door, leave the need to prove others WRONG aside, and trust that others may be educate, and able to formulate thoughts (and/)or do their own testing (in controlled ways) that may actually develop their understanding on a topic.
Surely the ability to have an experience with a piece of kit is not limited to just one person... (and it is big assumption when some on these threads like to throw around that they know the mind sciences more than the majority..- heck by the 1990s Psychology had been studied by a significant subset of western and developed cultures for a range of reasons (and not just health/advertising/sales),.. and that was DECADES AGO. Lets not be so silly to immortalise our words on the internet that suggest that we are the first person (ever) to have come across basic principles as to how the human mind works.. (and the ways we fool ourselves).

I like being foolish..
In fact it is my single greatest attribute. (that and unconditional positive regard (wink.gif))
the skills and lessons of the fool are many, for varied reasons.

I like Nordost cables...
but then, I also presently 'really like' a setup of many of my worst bits of tech assembled haphazardly into a super system that just somehow opens the music appreciation zones in my head to just 'feel it'.

I am happy if others simply want to say its' cause I am relaxed and that it IS in my mind,, (but keep it to yourself, my delusions are WORKING FOR ME)
Faith heals, and sure, maybe faith leads to sales of Nordost cables.
That is faith earned through experience (for me)

so it isn't really faith.
others can tell me it is
I just THINK its FACT
-that would be: S U B J E C T I V E ('subjective' for those using translators)

if my ego was in a mood to 'sell myself as an expert', I'd do up my top button, tighten my tie (a little), I'd argue that Nordost cables make an OBJECTIVE difference when put in situ.
The reason I don't- I don't know other peoples systems.
Certainly- until they have their endgame system, probably not worth going down the path of looking at things 'they don't believe in'
cables DO matter.. which cables and where is certainly system AND owner dependent.

My subjective reality is MORE REAL than your subjective reality? I don't think so.
Is my opinion from a wider pool of knowledge? dunno, but based on how hard some work to 'not hear' others, I'd say yeah/maybe...

If nordost want to send me a sample, I will record my system playing back some tracks with and without the Nordost cables in place. (I'd put some other cables in place when I remove the Nordost ones), and I would make a recording... people could watch via youtube, and I bet they would hear a difference just playing the clip.. maybe not through an ipads speakers, but through some decent headphones they would.
I agree that the poor ADC in my ten+ year old Fuji camera would inhibit the potential quality of the recording, but then that wouldn't be what we are testing, would it?
I'd be happy to leave the like/unlike as a voting system for 'can you hear a difference', and certainly I'd turn the popcorn machine on before sitting down to 'read the comments',.. but I'd do it cause I have total faith that the difference would be so overt/obvious that such a basic test would reveal.

Any reps from Nordost want to PM me I will show you my 'tube channel (so you can see whether you'd think I'd make it fun) and PM you the rig I'd feed.
(heck I think you got those cute short interconnects that I could replace the internals in the (MF) NuVista M3, but I wouldnt be able to do them 'on the fly' .. "lets talk!")

 

[gregorio]

I find when I listen to people and take on board a point of view, I have a chance of WIDENING MY PERSPECTIVE.
I feel this would put a person in a better place to figure out fact/fiction.

I’m sure listening to say a flat earther would widen one’s perspective. Hopefully though, it would not put one “in a better place to figure out fact/fiction”, hopefully all it would do is give you some perspective of those who are deluded.

but the objective evidence, certainly in the science threads, is that the blind lead and the ignorant follow.

Please present that objective evidence.

We do this for different reasons, my ignorance (by the reasoning of others) is that I want to feel 'ego good' to spend MORE MONEY on things that don't actually matter.

What others have that reasoning?

The challenge to this notion,

I don’t have that notion or know anyone else who does, so what’s the point in challenging it?

of course there are two sides on this coin/fence,

There’s two sides on the coin/fence of the earth being flat.

I suppose it comes down to 'an opinion is worth something when asked for'

What opinion? I didn’t present any opinions in my last post.

I know my subjective truths are subjective truths..

That’s up to you of course. I, on the other hand, do not know if my subjective truths are actually truths but then the point is moot because I didn’t present any of my personal subjective opinions.

What amazes me is when people just delete the fact that many many many many other people have experiences that corroborate the truths (not found by some) and simply write it off..

With the exception of a few pilots and astronauts, the vast majority of humanity have never seen the curvature of the earth. Many, many, many more people only have experience that corroborates the earth is flat. Are you therefore really arguing that the truth must be that the earth is flat?

[1] Do all DACs sound the same,.. yes. (its true if you can't tell a difference)
[2] Do cables make a difference.. yes (its true if you CAN tell a difference)

1. No, all DACs don’t sound the same. If you can’t tell a difference that doesn’t mean it’s true all DACs sound the same, it just means you personally can’t tell a difference. All it takes is one person to tell a difference between any two DACs, under controlled conditions, to falsify the hypothesis that all DACs sound the same.
2. Yes, cables can make a difference. They obviously look different, may have an audiophile brand name and may cost a great deal more than other cables. All of these are often very obvious differences and therefore can certainly affect some peoples’ experience. I’m not arguing against people experiences, I’m just arguing the objective facts of a cable’s audio performance.

As this is a Nordost thread, it would be antisocial/anti Nordost to try and BS that CABLES DO NOT ALTER THE SOUND CAPABILITIES OF A SYSTEM.

It’s not BS, assuming the correctly specified cable for the job, cables do not alter the the sound output by a system. And, it would be antisocial to suggest they do!

I agree it may not be YOUR EXPERIENCE..

How can you agree or disagree with my experience, when I haven’t discussed my experience or my opinions, just the actual facts? If I were to discuss my experience, then just like all other human beings, I have heard differences where there aren’t any and vice versa.

but then arguing to make YOUR OPINION 'the only sound/sane' opinion

I’m not arguing MY OPINION is the only sane opinion, I’m arguing the proven facts and those who are arguing their opinion against the proven facts cannot be anything other than misinformed or deluded.

Does YOUR SYSTEM allow you to 'see' the difference.

My system and the systems I’ve worked with are almost certainly higher fidelity and more revealing than yours. However, my system and many of the systems I work with don’t allow me to “see” the difference because some/many of the cables are hidden from sight.

I suppose my willingness to try and to not be invested in the outcome, helps remove some bias.

Not really or rather, it may for some but not for others and removing some bias doesn’t necessarily make any difference, you need to remove all bias.

Surely the ability to have an experience with a piece of kit is not limited to just one person...

No one, me included, is arguing with whatever experience you may have had.

(and it is big assumption when some on these threads like to throw around that they know the mind sciences more than the majority..

That wouldn’t be a big assumption, as the vast majority of people know next to nothing about psychoacoustics. However, that’s irrelevant because I didn’t argue about “mind sciences”, I argued about objective facts; why multiple mics are used to record drumkits, the dynamic range of mics and mixes, the audio signal performance of cables, etc. None of these things have anything to do with “mind sciences” because obviously cables, mics and mixes do not have “minds”.

if my ego was in a mood to 'sell myself as an expert', I'd do up my top button, tighten my tie (a little), I'd argue that Nordost cables make an OBJECTIVE difference when put in situ. The reason I don't- I don't know other peoples systems.

If they make an audible objective difference, it’s relatively easy to provide objective evidence.

My subjective reality is MORE REAL than your subjective reality?

Who knows but as I’m not arguing my subjective reality, just the proven facts, what does it matter?

Is my opinion from a wider pool of knowledge?

Clearly not, as you’re ignoring a century or so of countless hundreds of thousands of scientists, audio engineers and the universities and text books that teach all this stuff. Although your opinion does appear to draw from a wider pool of audiophile marketing, but that’s just my subjective guess!

(I'd put some other cables in place when I remove the Nordost ones), and I would make a recording... people could watch via youtube, and I bet they would hear a difference just playing the clip.

I’m sure some would too. If you removed all the clues though, so there would could be no bias, then no one would. And, how much would you like to bet, more than $1 million? Because that’s already been done, James Randi offered/bet $1m to anyone who could identify an audiophile cable from a cheap standard one (from sound alone). 15 years later, no one had managed to claim the prize and he’d won the bet!

G

 

[AussieMick]

Back to Nordost, maybe? Three Focal Celestee headphones, all well broken in, and three cables - Nordost Blue Heaven, Nordost Heimdall 2, and Cardas Parsec, all plugged into the same Chord TT2. Files served by an Innuos Zen MK3. Well it was a terrific experience for the three of us in attendance and we summarised our experience thusly…

1. we didn’t all prefer the same cable.
2. all three cables are a worthwhile improvement over the stock cable
3. they sounded different from each other in an obvious way
4. each Headphone spent time on each cable
5. we did it two ways, firstly sticking to our own headphone and swapping through the cables, then leaving everything connected and swapping headphones
6. whilst we had our preferences, we all agreed that whichever we owned we’d be happy to live with and would probably forget about the other two within two weeks and just be happy

It was a really good experience. Cables matter. Everything matters.

 

[AussieMick]

As an addendum to the above, we then compared Celestee + aftermarket cable to a Radiance with the stock cable. The fundamental character of the two headphone models was still obvious, and the performance gains of the Radiance were still there over the Celestee. This have us a good idea of relative value of the cables. Celestee + Heimdall 2 didn’t outperform Radiance.
Adding the aftermarket cables to the Radiance only made the gap between it and Celestee wider. both headphones were improved by all three aftermarket cables. Personally, I’d buy Radiance before I’d buy Celestee + cable, but I’d definitely want to add a cable later.