[leesure]

 
Normal people on a budget should still consider the Modi to pair up with it. Nothing wrong with it or an ODAC.
I don't consider a $400 DAC a budget item!
 

 
I long ago ceased trying to impose my vision of 'budget' or 'value' onto others.  $400 may not be  budget item to you, but to many others who expect to spend $1200+ on a DAC, $400 IS a budget price.  
 
Just work on what sounds good TO YOU and fits into YOUR budget and stop expecting others to see things through your eyes.

 

[M-13]

   
Are you trying to tell me that my $50 HifimeDIY Sabre dac is NOT the BEST dac ever???

 

 
No man it PROBABLY IS the best ever! Best dac ever (like that song).  What can be better than something you hand built? The value is just off the charts.

 

[purrin]

 
For those with tube experience, how would you rate the "Tube-iness" of the Vali? Does it add a lot of that tube sound, or a little bit of "tube flavor" to the signal?

 
Originally Posted by purrin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Let me photoshop an illustration for you with other amps for reference. Give me a about 30 minutes. I'm trying to make the most of double XP weekend in SWTOR right now by killing some Imperial scum.

 
Take this with a pinch of salt. It's really not so clear cut and more complex than this.
Use it as a rough indicator of where things stand.

 

[kstuart]

please explain why anyone would choose USB over the optical connection. It's more expensive and schiit has always recommended Optical over usb for best sound quality. also much less expensive. A

This seems to have changed with the new USB Gen 2 board.   This comment by Jason indicating that they feel that USB is a little better than SPDIF with the new board.   (http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/1215#post_9772462)
 
Note that prior to this, many other DAC engineers have insisted that USB is superior (Halverson, Rankin come to mind).  Now that Schiit have had enough time to come out with a competitive USB board, they seem to have changed their mind.

 
PS  Darko confirms that the new USB Gen 2 board is as good as Jason claims...
 
Note that we are really getting into TINY subtleties with different digital connection methods!  I would not spend money just to find out it makes little difference in your setup.

 

[NinjaHamster]

Maybe Tyll Hertsens can come up with something like his headphone measurements but for DACs.

You mean he could come up with "Stereophile" ?  OK, let's all hope in the DeLorien and enjoy the ride !!

 

[Barry S]

   
...Right now i'm testing the Modi with the Vali and HD-650. It seems like it sounds a bit more blurry/muffled than it normally does. Like almost a slightly double whammy in warmth, but why?! I don't even find the Modi warm. Confusing. Still not too bad.  
The Modi ALWAYS sounds crystal clear with the Micro and O2 with the HD-650 so this is a bit weird...

 
The Modi is neutral, but it does have some congestion and thickness compared to to the Gungnir. The Vali soundstage is smaller than the Mjolnir and the overall sound is more closed in, but it sounds just articulate enough to enjoy with the Gungnir feeding it. Modi/Vali is probably going to be a little thick or veiled.  I'll test it tomorrow with my Modi and HD650 against the Magni. The Gungnir>Vali sounds better than the Modi>Mjolnir, so score one for the DACists.

 

[purrin]

 
We all are man. Nobody likes wasting money. There are lots of smart people on here. It takes brains and an education to make money to spend on audio gear. You don't make money by making bad deicsions and being dumb. I think it's important to not dismiss the experience of others unless you've given them a fair evaluation. And yeah cables can make a difference, a small or big difference depending on how you view it.
 
These days with so many places offering no hassle returns and trial periods for dacs, it's very easy to go hear for youself without taking a hit to the wallet. Or like I mentioned going used is also great because you can sell it back to the community for almost no loss or no loss at all in most cases.
 
Snake oil is everywhere, not just in audio. But you have to understand most people on this forum don't have any secret agendas or motivations. We're all here to enjoy music and share our experiences. Yeah there are some bad eggs, but they kind of reveal themselves in an obvious manner in due time.

 
The way I see audio (and cars): it's the equivalent of women's cosmetics / skin-care products / plastic surgery. No doubt there's a luxury / cachet element to it. I got no problem with a successful busy banker, doctor, lawyer, businessman dropping five to six figures on expensive audio gear. They work hard for their money and have little time to waste evaluating gear on a constant basis. They just hear something they like, think it's awesome, and just go for it. Then they can brag to their friends about the cool audio stuff they can easily afford. Not anything different from the OC housewives who compare boob jobs (yes that actually happens around here.)
 
Let me get back to one crucial fact: the Vali costs $119.

 

[purrin]

 
This seems to have changed with the new USB Gen 2 board.   This comment by Jason indicating that they feel that USB is a little better than SPDIF with the new board.   (http://www.head-fi.org/t/603219/schiit-gungnir-dac/1215#post_9772462)
 
Note that prior to this, many other DAC engineers have insisted that USB is superior (Halverson, Rankin come to mind).  Now that Schiit have had enough time to come out with a competitive USB board, they seem to have changed their mind.

 
PS  Darko confirms that the new USB Gen 2 board is as good as Jason claims...
 
Note that we are really getting into TINY subtleties with different digital connection methods!  I would not spend money just to find out it makes little difference in your setup.

 
I have an old USB board and a new Gen 2 USB board on hand. I have not had a chance to AB them thoroughly yet, but comparisons between the coax from my PC (what I use in favor of the built-in USB on the PWD2 DAC - actually a very good implementation already) and the USB Gen 2 seem to indicate no difference. This is a score for the USB Gen 2 board because usually USB sucks - like really sucks - compared to coax from a decent source. It is very subtle though. The Uber Analog board is a no-brainer must have upgrade. The USB Gen 2 - that depends on your setup.

 

[olor1n]

Originally Posted by purrin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[...]
 
Let me get back to one crucial fact: the Vali costs $119.

 

 

[purrin]

 

 
Let's embark on a path of constant side-grades: acquire four amps at about $99 each on average, three DACs at about $149 each, and five headphones at about $300; and then bitch about about the $419 Beef-Roast is too extravagant and high-end for their tastes.
 
Moar <> bettar. Unless of course you want to list an extensive headphone CV in your profile to proclaim your awesomeness.

 

[painted klown]

Purrin, Thanks a lot for that chart. Although I have not really heard many of those amps (have only heard a couple different headroom amps at a local shop), it does put things into an easy to understand chart, and is a great point of reference.
 
That fact that it leans toward the "syrupy" side, is good news to my ears, as I feel that it would be a very good indicator of weather or not I will enjoy tubes as a whole.  IMO, it seems to be a low cost way to test the water.
 
Thanks again, I haven't really posted/read much on this forum, but you come across as an experienced head-fi'er who is more than willing to help out us noobs. I see that your comments can sometimes be polarizing, but anyone who garners a lot of respect will evoke strong responses to their opinion...as it matters to a lot of people, and clearly holds some sway.

 

[hans030390]

You all are going to love this. This is my current setup I'm toying around with:
 
1. USB to JKSPDIF MK3 to DAC
2. Metrum Quad DAC (Got this with the JKSPDIF for $750 used for everything...couldn't resist trying a NOS DAC - Currently using with XXHighEnd software)
3. Schiit Vali ($120)
4. Tascam TH-02 ($30, about $55-60 after mods)
 
Mmm, that upside sound cost pyramid sounds good. 
 
The ringing scared the crap out of me when I plugged the headphones in. Saw that Schiit directly addressed it on the product page and went about my business.
 
It's a great amp, and the price doesn't hurt. It's also got a bit of a noise floor with sensitive headphones, but, eh.
 
 
Quote:

 
Is there any equipment that can measure the analog signal coming out of a DAC, so it can be objectively compared? I would think the delta in DAC's could be easily quantified if such a tool existed.

 
Yes...you can find DAC measurements all over the internet...frequency response, distortion (of all types), noise, impulse response, sine wave response, etc. You name it. I'm just starting to learn some of the complexities behind it. For example, the measured frequency response of a DAC might tip you off to the type of upsampling or digital filtering is being used, though there's more to be said about how upsampling or digital filters affect the sound outside of just the frequency response (ex: they can also affect pre and post-ringing in the sound...check impulse responses). I'm trying out a NOS DAC (non-oversampling) to see if my ears find the DAC less fatiguing. NOS DACs have their own measurable advantages, but they also have downsides, generally in harmonic and intermodulation distortion. But, a true NOS DAC should have a clean impulse response without ringing. Measurements can show these things but can't always necessarily answer which balance of benefits and compromises your ears will prefer.

 

[purrin]

  Purrin, Thanks a lot for that chart....

 
You are welcome. Don't take me too seriously. I've been laughing my ass off this entire time and still have a smile glued to my face.  I'm just having fun rest day now that I've managed to send my parents back home this morning.

 

[Nic Rhodes]

  Thank you for the input.
 
Can you please elaborate on the differences between these two amps?
 
I own neither one (I currently have no HP amp) but was seriously looking at one of the Little Dot offerings to get a tube amp on the cheap.
 
Since tube rolling can be costly (therefore making it something I would end up doing very little anyway), I figured I would see how this little amp compares.
 
Save $$$ and get a taste of tube flavor. I have never really had the opportunity to listen to any tube playback gear, so I am always wanting to try some. With the low cost of entry for the Vali, it's almost worth taking a chance on one "just to do it". However, if I would be better off skipping it and moving to a Little Dot, then I would rather save the time/money of buying multiple amps. Hope that reasoning makes sense.

what phones do you intend to use with it?

 

[tdockweiler]

   
That fact that it leans toward the "syrupy" side, is good news to my ears, as I feel that it would be a very good indicator of weather or not I will enjoy tubes as a whole.  IMO, it seems to be a low cost way to test the water.
 
 

 
IMO it's not even remotely like that, but we'll see what others say in the next week. I know Purrin didn't say this.
 
Don't forget that it's a hybrid tube amp.