[ACHofNY]

Hi, I'm Al from LI, NY. Decades ago, I used to be an audiophile. Between moving to my current house and having kids, I did, and still do not get much opportunity to listen seriously much with the stereo. The family room is large with hard vaulted ceilings and hard wood floors; the sound was not ideal and sound spreads through out the house. I've since started to use headphone. I would say I am just a starter Head-Fi. I came here to see what it my next step to improve my listening experience. I use different headphones due to convenience nor when I am able to listen seriously. Currently, please don't laugh, my serious listening is with a Sennheiser HD600, Teac UD-301 DAC, with and without Little Dot MkII with upgraded Russian Tubes, driven by my Mac or modded iPod Classic 7th Gen digitally using mostly lossless audio sources. Sometimes, I run records from a turntable, with a Rega Tone arm& cartridge through my Carver C-4000 PreAmp to my Little Dot. If I'm lazy, I use an iPod Classic 5.5 gen with the Little Dot in a different rooms. I figure the Little Dot may be a great sound for the price, but there has to be reason others goes much higher. Pleased with my Teac, I tried for portability, the Teac HA-501 with the iPod Classic digitally, that was a mistake. I really like the open headphone sound from the HD600.

I'm trying to figure out my next upgrade, but not going super crazy in price. Thinking maybe a new headphone amp (with tubes?) that will take the balance output from the Teac DAC, or go to something like the Drop HD8XX, at the high end. Would going to a nice balanced headphone amp or the HD8xx would get the most improvement now until the next step. Any suggestions? Thanks in Advance
Al

 

[dunring]

Hey, Ive got balanced and the only reason is if you have one that puts out more power on that connector. The sound is the same. What kind of improvement are you looking for over the HD600? I've got a Drop thx 789 and Topping d10 balanced and it's amazing for the price. The Sennheiser drop HD6XX which is similar to yours sounds terrific, but on the single ended plug, the Beyerdynamic 250 ohm DT880 are really fun too. Top companies like Chord and Reference don't even make balanced stuff. I still miss my $200 Khadas tone board and Schiit Magni Heresy I got used, seemed like a simpler setup.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Hi, I'm Al from LI, NY. Decades ago, I used to be an audiophile. Between moving to my current house and having kids, I did, and still do not get much opportunity to listen seriously much with the stereo. The family room is large with hard vaulted ceilings and hard wood floors; the sound was not ideal and sound spreads through out the house. I've since started to use headphone. I would say I am just a starter Head-Fi. I came here to see what it my next step to improve my listening experience. I use different headphones due to convenience nor when I am able to listen seriously. Currently, please don't laugh, my serious listening is with a Sennheiser HD600, Teac UD-301 DAC, with and without Little Dot MkII with upgraded Russian Tubes, driven by my Mac or modded iPod Classic 7th Gen digitally using mostly lossless audio sources. Sometimes, I run records from a turntable, with a Rega Tone arm& cartridge through my Carver C-4000 PreAmp to my Little Dot. If I'm lazy, I use an iPod Classic 5.5 gen with the Little Dot in a different rooms. I figure the Little Dot may be a great sound for the price, but there has to be reason others goes much higher. Pleased with my Teac, I tried for portability, the Teac HA-501 with the iPod Classic digitally, that was a mistake. I really like the open headphone sound from the HD600.

I'm trying to figure out my next upgrade, but not going super crazy in price. Thinking maybe a new headphone amp (with tubes?) that will take the balance output from the Teac DAC, or go to something like the Drop HD8XX, at the high end. Would going to a nice balanced headphone amp or the HD8xx would get the most improvement now until the next step. Any suggestions? Thanks in Advance
Al

HD 600 is difficult to beat in many ways, for any amount of money. The HD 800 (and 8XX, I guess) is not necessarily an upgrade unless you listen mostly to orchestral or big band.

What musical genres do you listen to, what kind of music sources do you listen to (physical media, files, formats) and what are you trying to improve?

 

[ACHofNY]

Thanks:
Gimmeheadroom, it sounds like the HD8XX may not be worth the money. I do listen and love hearing all the instruments in orchestra and big bands, but it is not my most listened to music.
Dunrig, here is more information

Initially, I felt I needed more power when I drove the HD600 with the Teac only, I drove it by itself for some time. Then I got the Little Dot to play with tubes separately and was pleased considering I was driving it with the iPod. Then I connected it to the Teac and I'm fairly pleased. I been using that setups for some time and wonder what I am missing since I paid so little money for the Amp, so I guess I feel I like to see if I can improve the sound. I always felt that although we can enjoy our setup, we may not know what we are missing. I listen to a varied sort of music, but mostly older material I guess due to my age . I listen to Jazz, Pops, R&B, classical and oldies.With the HD600, I only listen to either either lossless compressed, not much hi-res, and some AAC/MP3 for those that was not worth to rebuy. (Most of the Hi-Res I would buy, I have the analog records.) I do no listen to streamed audio much, unless it is uncompressed. I can't stand the sound of lossy sources on this headphone. It does not mean I don't, when on the run, I use (ugh) Bose QC35 or worse AirPod Pros which masks the flaws.

With my setup I do hear, I think all, the small nuances that I missed without this setup. I don't want pounding bass, I feel the low end, although is good with HD600, it is not quite there. I read the the HD650/HD6XX has slightly more, but it is a small upgrade. For example, when I listen to Dave Brubeck's Take Five, the drums is seems lower with more dynamic on the QC35, and seems lacking on the HD600. Also, I've read that balance provides lower noise and more dynamics, definitely worth an upgrade from the builtin amp on the Teac with the high impedance cans. I started to get interest in Drop thx 789 or Monoprice, it would definitely be a different sound, but I not sure if I will get a headache (I have migraine often) from it from what I read, especially with compressed or mismatched sampling rates.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Quinto]

If a second hand ZMF Aeolus is not over your budget, it's like a HD600 on steroids, it's a very good allrounder, doesn't need top-end amp/dac and older recorderings sound best way possible to my ears.. still plenty of detail, tonality/timbre to die for

 

[Redcarmoose]

Well, the other thing to note is many like the HD600 better than the HD800 series? I have heard the HD600 with the WA3 which I guess is a lot like the Little Dot? You want just a tad more authority and speed, I would guess?

I mean there is a lot of different ways to go. Obviously synergy is key maximizing the individual component quality. It’s first off difficult to change headphones as there may be improvement in another quality but then a reduction in a different area with new headphones. There are people who actually went all over the place trying different headphones just to return to the HD600 again!

I would try to maximize the signal to the HD600s. There are numerous ways to get the HD600s to scale I think? You just need someone with “scaling” experience and who has had actual experience with an upgrade. Myself I have only heard the HD600s on the Woo Audio 3 and Woo Audio 5LE?

In many ways the industry has moved forward getting people really top tier sound for very little money. There is maybe a handful of amps to at least try to switch-in and at least try to find out if they bring the improvements your looking for? There are so many new amps to try and they don’t have to be tube to work, though I would look at tubes maybe first as they can be so good with the HD600?

 

[gimmeheadroom]

Initially, I felt I needed more power when I drove the HD600 with the Teac only, I drove it by itself for some time. Then I got the Little Dot to play with tubes separately and was pleased considering I was driving it with the iPod. Then I connected it to the Teac and I'm fairly pleased. I been using that setups for some time and wonder what I am missing since I paid so little money for the Amp, so I guess I feel I like to see if I can improve the sound. I always felt that although we can enjoy our setup, we may not know what we are missing. I listen to a varied sort of music, but mostly older material I guess due to my age . I listen to Jazz, Pops, R&B, classical and oldies.With the HD600,

There is probably not a better all around headphone for those genres. The only thing is if you want a different style of presentation. Otherwise, consider an amp or tube upgrade.

With my setup I do hear, I think all, the small nuances that I missed without this setup. I don't want pounding bass, I feel the low end, although is good with HD600, it is not quite there.

Usually, complaints of not enough low-end with HD 600s are based on lack of power, or are from people coming from non-hifi headphones who are used to bloated, overemphasized bass.

I read the the HD650/HD6XX has slightly more, but it is a small upgrade.

They are not- they are just retunings of the HD 600 to make them more popular. Don't mess with success, you got the best of the series already

For example, when I listen to Dave Brubeck's Take Five, the drums is seems lower with more dynamic on the QC35, and seems lacking on the HD600. Also, I've read that balance provides lower noise and more dynamics, definitely worth an upgrade from the builtin amp on the Teac with the high impedance cans. I started to get interest in Drop thx 789 or Monoprice, it would definitely be a different sound, but I not sure if I will get a headache (I have migraine often) from it from what I read, especially with compressed or mismatched sampling rates.

The 300 ohm Sennheisers are not hard to drive, but they're hard to drive well. If you can borrow somebody's amp or take your source where there are amps to try, listen to your 600s out of a more powerful OTL amp or a good solid state amp and I believe your issues regarding lacking bass on the HD 600 will disappear.

 

[Redcarmoose]

Usually, complaints of not enough low-end with HD 600s are based on lack of power, or are from people coming from non-hifi headphones who are used to bloated, overemphasized bass.

That’s what I was thinking! The damping factor is in some ways very confusing. With better damping your not making anything louder but increasing bass character, adding texture and cleaning up lower midrange bass fog. Truly this has been one of my biggest learning experiences here. As my first headphones and amp were a total mismatch when I started Head-Fi.

When damping is increased there will be bass soundstage and pace which you never thought you would find in your headphones. Also it seems to increase clarity in the midrange and treble areas.

 

[gimmeheadroom]

That’s what I was thinking! The damping factor is in some ways very confusing. With better damping your not making anything louder but increasing bass character. Added textures and cleaning up lower midrange bass fog. Truly this has been one of my biggest learning experiences here. As my first headphones and amp were a total mismatch when I started Head-Fi.

When damping is increased there will be bass soundstage and pace which you never thought you would find in your headphones. Also it seems to increase clarity in the midrange and treble areas.

I listened to my 600s out of a lot of different gear. And I realized that they sound lifeless when they don't get enough voltage. As you alluded to, these headphones scale amazingly, to the point it's hard to throw too much amp at them. A lot of people consider them endgame out of a Bottlehead Crack and solid state amps like the Violectrics are also a great match. Every time I put on my 600s I'm always amazed how wonderful they sound.

 

[DenverW]

The HD600's are one of my favorites. You have to move up the chain a decent amount in cost (such as the aeolus that was mentioned above) before you start getting into headphones that will beat them overall. A couple of amps mentioned above will really bring out the shine with the 600s, my personal affordable favorite being the bottlehead crack. I don't think you need to worry about running balanced at this time.

 

[ACHofNY]

I can't decide, there are a number of choices. I am all over the place, I guess that is why some folks has a few units. (This forum is no help, there are a good number of helpful suggestions. ) Some are lower price (may be different but different than LD MK2), It is tough these days to try out without buying. Some models on my list are, in no specific order: Valhalla 2, Bottlehead Crack/Crackatwoa, on the solid state higher side of my initial price range: Flux FA10 ( I think over FA12?).

(For curiosity, for a very low price, SMSL SP200 THX AAA-888. I expect a totally different sound. But to try balance, the balanced cables will cost almost as much as that unit on Drop, therefore it probably is a waste of money and spend it on a more on the amp.)

For non-audio reason, I got interest in building the Bottlehead (Crackatwoa unless musically is not worth it over Crack,) may be when I retire in a couple of months. I've seen some beautifully built units, not sure If I can do as well on my first build.

Thanks

 

[Monsterzero]

I feel the low end, although is good with HD600, it is not quite there. I read the the HD650/HD6XX has slightly more, but it is a small upgrade.

It is a bit anemic vs. the HD650/6xx, which has a pronounced midbass hump. The tradeoff though is the sub bass tends to roll off a bit early.

IMO both the 600 and 650 are hard to beat at that price, and if youre invested in an OTL, even more so.

I started to get interest in Drop thx 789 or Monoprice,

Measures great, but if you're enjoying the sound of tubes you will most likely find this amp kinda soul-less.

If a second hand ZMF Aeolus is not over your budget, it's like a HD600 on steroids

I think it sounds more like the 650 with the midbass slam.

OP,

Have you tried tube rolling on your amp?
Also, forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but what is your realistic budget?

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Currently, please don't laugh, my serious listening is with a Sennheiser HD600, Teac UD-301 DAC, with and without Little Dot MkII with upgraded Russian Tubes, driven by my Mac or modded iPod Classic 7th Gen digitally using mostly lossless audio sources.

I took my HD600 (with angled Brainwavz pads) and Cantate.2 to listen back to back vs a Focal Utopia and some new Cayin amp with variable impedance settings. Decided to stay with my gear, but I moved to the next suite in that audio suite (wow, trade shows...from the before times, long, long ago...) to listen to another Utopia (the Stellas).

Also had the LD MkII before but it boosted the low end too much on the HD600. Same on the SR225, but on that one it boosted the midrange but the treble was still sharp. Getting more bass and not cranking it up as high wasn't enough to manage the treble and I suspect it was boosting that too, as my Cantate.2 doesn't have that problem. I mean, the SR225 was a bit sharp, but it's not as sharp on the Meier even if I crank it up a bit more. Same thing with an SR80e.

If I'm lazy, I use an iPod Classic 5.5 gen with the Little Dot in a different rooms. I figure the Little Dot may be a great sound for the price, but there has to be reason others goes much higher.

More power, lower noise, maybe not much in the way of lower damping factor so the response is more linear like on the Schiit Valhalla vs the LD MkII.

Whether you'll perceive a big difference is another matter entirely, and so is liking it in the case of the Valhalla.

If you want to just change the amp and try another OTL amp, maybe the Darkvoice DV336se. If you want to try an amp with more current delivery and lower output impedance, and more power (especially at lower impedance loads), then maybe the Meier Jazz FF (though not that much more power at 300ohms). Although the Meier will have far more power than the Teac at any load impedance, plus it has Crossfeed.

Pleased with my Teac, I tried for portability, the Teac HA-501 with the iPod Classic digitally, that was a mistake.

Just to clarify...when you "tried...with the iPod Classic digitally," you used a dock to extract digital audio from that iPod?

I'm trying to figure out my next upgrade, but not going super crazy in price. Thinking maybe a new headphone amp (with tubes?) that will take the balance output from the Teac DAC, or go to something like the Drop HD8XX, at the high end. Would going to a nice balanced headphone amp or the HD8xx would get the most improvement now until the next step. Any suggestions?

If you can stick with single ended there's the WooAudio WA6se (transformer-coupled) and WA2 (OTL). If you really want balanced drive there's the WA22.

 

[ACHofNY]

Just to clarify...when you "tried...with the iPod Classic digitally," you used a dock to extract digital audio from that iPod?

FYI, the iPod Classic, 7th Gen can output digital data stream via the USB dock connector. I don‘t know if current DACs would work Anymore. Years back when iPods were more popular, the DAC’s spec would say it is compatible with iPod/iPhone. It works like plugging the USB into a car’s stereo via USB. Some older dock connector may use the analog line out. I can tell, if it works on my gen 5.5, that only output lime out.

Thanks, you have a lot to think about.

 

[ACHofNY]

It is a bit anemic vs. the HD650/6xx, which has a pronounced midbass hump. The tradeoff though is the sub bass tends to roll off a bit early.

IMO both the 600 and 650 are hard to beat at that price, and if youre invested in an OTL, even more so.

Measures great, but if you're enjoying the sound of tubes you will most likely find this amp kinda soul-less.

I think it sounds more like the 650 with the midbass slam.

OP,

Have you tried tube rolling on your amp?
Also, forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but what is your realistic budget?

No, I did not mention my budget. Initially, I started at $500 then went to a $1000 limit. i haven’t tried tube rolling other than my LD MK2 has: “(E182CC ECC99 ) 6N6P double triode Russian gold grid + 2 USA GE5654W tubes that came with it when I purchased it.” I have a hard time knowing what I like and how to go about it. Maybe down the line I have more time to learn and try. Thanks.