[tupac0306]

  Good discussion, tupac and al, thanks.
 
I'm interested in what you've said about the tonal balance, since that's important to me. Some audiophiles I trust have had the same issues with the Roxanne's tonality after having heard it. I'm looking forward to hearing it with an open mind and ears.

Some CIEMs have tonal accuracy and some CIEMs have tonal balance.  
 
Tonal accuracy to me is: there isn't any portion of the spectrum is pushed out or in. Of course, such thing doesn't exist, so I pick the closest one. How do I know if the spectrum is linear? well that will have to depend on my experiences in listening to different CIEMs and headphone and mixing/EQing over the time. To me there are a few CIEM go in this category: SE5, NT6.
 
Tonal balance to me is: the spectrum is obvious tuned to sound like a unique thing, so it's colored. but the hump and cut compensate each other quite well, so it still sound balanced as a whole. CIEMs go into this category: JH16, roxanne, 1+2. JH13 FP (without changing the cable). UM mentor.
 
CIEMs that are completely off to my ears: Heir 8.a, MG6 PRO (sorry) 
 
K10 is left to be determined.
 
Also it's is really difficult to differentiate mid fullness vs mid forwardness, mid forwardness vs lower treble forwardness, brightness vs clarity vs resolution vs transparency. It's very easy to get these mixed up, I know I did. so that's why we hear different opinions from different people. Also the source and amp play a importantly role of course. I normally judge my CIEM with my desktop anedio D2 which has a super low output impedance and clean/healthy power. So I know if anything sounds wrong, it's not the source it's my earphone. 
 
Anyway, I am just being honest to what I hear, no bias, no hype. If it sounds wrong to my ears, eg. if my K10's custom didn't sound as good as the demo, I will say it.

 

[Kunlun]

That's cool, I'm the same way about no bias, no hype. You'll remember I found the SE5 to be nice, but not at all the way it's been described since it's a tonally dark stage monitor. That's just my ears and my honest take, no offense to anyone. I think you're right about describing sound not being so easy. Plus, people have different music, different sources. Other considerations are hearing issues, most often in the higher frequencies. For example, I and a number of other people hear a treble spike in the JH13fp (demos for me, customs for others), while others don't even seem to report it at all. Another example is the Noble 4C, which I hear as has a broader, gentler, lift in the treble, but I haven't seen other people report that. This adds to the sense of transparency and clarity, which they definitely do report, however. That brings us back to describing sound. Those lifts and dips change our sense of things like clarity, as I mentioned, and what sounds natural to our ears is not a "flat" frequency response. Looking at research on equal loudness contours, this perception changes with volume, so different listening volumes are another reason people report different sound signatures from the same earphone.
 
I'd say tonal accuracy and timbre reproduction are related. If female and male voices, cymbals and violins, guitars all sound tonally real, then the earphone is tonally accurate even if the frequency response shows a colored sound. A great example is how earphones with a dark coloration can have good timbre. This is how I hear a number of stage monitors with non-fatiguing sound...
 
Anyway, always nice talking to you. I imagine you'll find the K10 custom to be just as good or better than the demo--how could it not be?
 
 
Speaking of no bias, I recently bought a ciem for a girlfriend. Having had her audition a few ciem/top tier iems, we talked about the sound she wanted to hear (that's always the question I ask anyone). The JH16fp matched that most closely so that's what I got her. She's really enjoying her pink and rhinestone studded ciem!

 

[wickson]

That's cool, I'm the same way about no bias, no hype. You'll remember I found the SE5 to be nice, but not at all the way it's been described since it's a tonally dark stage monitor. That's just my ears and my honest take, no offense to anyone. I think you're right about describing sound not being so easy. Plus, people have different music, different sources. Other considerations are hearing issues, most often in the higher frequencies. For example, I and a number of other people hear a treble spike in the JH13fp (demos for me, customs for others), while others don't even seem to report it at all. Another example is the Noble 4C, which I hear as has a broader, gentler, lift in the treble, but I haven't seen other people report that. This adds to the sense of transparency and clarity, which they definitely do report, however. That brings us back to describing sound. Those lifts and dips change our sense of things like clarity, as I mentioned, and what sounds natural to our ears is not a "flat" frequency response. Looking at research on equal loudness contours, this perception changes with volume, so different listening volumes are another reason people report different sound signatures from the same earphone.

I'd say tonal accuracy and timbre reproduction are related. If female and male voices, cymbals and violins, guitars all sound tonally real, then the earphone is tonally accurate even if the frequency response shows a colored sound. A great example is how earphones with a dark coloration can have good timbre. This is how I hear a number of stage monitors with non-fatiguing sound...

Anyway, always nice talking to you. I imagine you'll find the K10 custom to be just as good or better than the demo--how could it not be?


Speaking of no bias, I recently bought a ciem for a girlfriend. Having had her audition a few ciem/top tier iems, we talked about the sound she wanted to hear (that's always the question I ask anyone). The JH16fp matched that most closely so that's what I got her. She's really enjoying her pink and rhinestone studded ciem!

For "a" girlfriend.... How many do yo have? Lol

 

[Kunlun]

For "a" girlfriend.... How many do yo have? Lol

Well... "it's complicated"

 

[wickson]

Well... "it's complicated" :wink_face:

Lol... Nuff said...

 

[tupac0306]

   Looking at research on equal loudness contours, this perception changes with volume, so different listening volumes are another reason people report different sound signatures from the same earphone.
 
I'd say tonal accuracy and timbre reproduction are related. If female and male voices, cymbals and violins, guitars all sound tonally real, then the earphone is tonally accurate even if the frequency response shows a colored sound. A great example is how earphones with a dark coloration can have good timbre. This is how I hear a number of stage monitors with non-fatiguing sound...
 
 

Yes, I agree with that too. I normally listen to earphones with medium - large volume, just to make sure the earphones are properly powered. 
 
From my experience, the more linear the frequency response is, the closer I got bring into the music. This is very hard to explain by words, but when you hear something that's right, you know it feels right. Also different types of mixing in songs play a big part here too. When someone says, a earphone sounds particular GREAT with Guitar/violin, or female vocals, that sounds to me that this earphone is already colored to a certain extent. Also "GREAT" here doesn't mean it sound real, just exaggerated a good way.
 

For "a" girlfriend.... How many do yo have? Lol

He will have to buy one for each

 

[OziasEvangeline]

Not sure if I'm lagging but I just saw a new product on JH website..? The ambient FR? Not a siren then.. O.o

 

[OziasEvangeline]

Looks more like for stage use though.. Starting price 1299 with quad lows and quad highs with 2 way crossover. Interesting...

 

[Kunlun]

. When someone says, a earphone sounds particular GREAT with Guitar/violin, or female vocals, that sounds to me that this earphone is already colored to a certain extent. Also "GREAT" here doesn't mean it sound real, just exaggerated a good way.  

Yes, excellent point!

 

[bobeau]

One thing that fascinated me at the SoCal meet was how incredibly loud some people listen to headphones.  Just about every rig I sat down at had the volume turned to a much level higher than I typically like, and some seemed dangerously loud - like exceeding 100db.
 
About 8-9 years ago I hosted a local meet w/ about 30 people.  The converse seemed to be the case, there were a couple people there who SPL tested their rigs and had tried to keep things in the low/mid 80s.  I'm not sure where I'm at, but probably somewhere in the upper 80s.

 

[robm321]

3 weeks after sending my Roxanne's back for a refit, I received an email that it will be standard overnight-ed to me. Cool of them to overnight it. I never emailed or talked to them. I just got the email tracking from Fedex. I'm happy with the turn-a-round time. Hoping like hell it fits 

 

 

[ALRAINBOW]

My are shipped of today. I paid for over night to and from. Let's see.
I received an apologetic email from jh audio. They are nice about fixing what happened.

Al.

 

[Lukalop]

Why is 'fun sounding' always associated with being less analytical. In your opinion what is the fastest sounding most analytical IEM you have heard? I am looking to hear everything in absolute balance, as neutral as it gets, I do not want any coloration whatsoever and it would also be good if the decay was variable (as is with the SE5-Way). Thanks.

Or am I asking for the impossible.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

Because analytical usually means as close to neutral as possible, and neutral is boring as hell. 

 

[ALRAINBOW]

What you ask for is not impossible for you
But it is for someone to recommend
As the most neutral I me I have heard is the jh13
It is for me a true reference IEM.
How ever before you finishing reading this
Others will be here to give you there's.
And that is fine too.
There is two
People on here that I have learned much from
One is the joker and the other is avg joe
They both have multi IEM reviews in a chart
That is extremely helpful to view and read.
The other answer is fun means colored
It's just a discription used. Perhaps the Roxanne is fun
As opposed to the jh13 being the other side of things
Now this is my view and others will say something
Else. And that is ok. Read the multi reviews
Of the two I recommended
It will put things in perspective for you. Why cause
No open debate will occur as in this thread and only fuel your confusion
More.
Al