[Chris_Himself]

Preproman:

Drop some knowledge on a brother, will ya?

No seriously, I'm quite curious. I forgot what HE-6 sounded like and I borrowed a pair during a period where I did not own other headphones. So it's memory exists in complete isolation from other sonic signatures.

 

[wje]

Quote:

Has anybody in here compared HE-6 to HE-5LE?

I forgot what HE-5LE sounded like, just that I liked it for particular reasons I chose to note over HE-500.. which I also conveniently forgot how it sounded.. other than LCD-2 was darker.

I have no idea how some of you guys managed to catalog entire collections of headphones haha

 
I don't know either.  However, a series of calculated moves over the past month was made in order to simplify the process on my end.  Some thoughtful consolidation.  I went through and determined that there was really no viable need for me to hold onto some of the $50 to $150 headphone wonders that I had.  While there were some "interesting" offerings in that price range, I found them to actually be a distraction, when looking at the big picture.  To me, the big picture was achieving a sound that I could finally love, and one that I could be content with.  The constant revolving door of buying, selling, buying more, selling more has been halted.  I have decided on my "keepers" which will be the HE-4, the HE-5LE and the HD-600.  Oh, and the HD-555 for when I sleep.  The 4, 5LE and 600 should be able to round out my various needs for my appetite when it comes to listening.
 
With that being said, what could be worse on a weekend than realizing your pair of HE-5LE headphones arrived at FedEx early on Friday morning, with a scheduled delivery of Monday?  To add fuel to the fire, I called FedEx to see if I simply couldn't change the delivery option to hold for pickup.  Well, FedEx explained that the package was still in the larger shipping container (truck?) and would be there until it would then be unloaded, sorted and placed on trucks for Monday's delivery schedule.  Yes.  Having to suffer through 72 hours of a pair of headphones less than 20 miles away, but kept under the control of FedEx from an eager receiver who wants to get his ears and hands on them?  But, I can remain contained.  I have my HE-4 headphones, which I, myself, truly truly love.  Since I listen to so many female vocalists, the HE-400 was just butchering my music.  It was bad.  Real bad.  Then, the HE-4 came into my life.  Freedom for my ears finally arrived!  The ladies now sing to me with their loving voices and none of the sibilants can be heard.  I have reached a great plateau here.  A great moment indeed.
 
As to music, I've learned that Audiogon is going to be rolling out monthly access to high definition tracks so one can test their gear out to the best potential.  Here is the link:
http://hub.audiogon.com/2013/02/22/wake-up-your-ears-with-audiogon/
 
Finally, last evening, my searching for female blues singers landed another catch.  Bettye LaVette.  Yes, she has a great voice - and even an album where she does covers of some of the famous British rock songs that we know and love from the likes of the Moody Blues, Pink Floyd and others.  Now this, my friends, is where I enjoy my headphones - through listening to newly found artists who have some great, great talent.  None of that Lady GaGa crap for me!!!

 

[Joong]

Yes it can!

I used th m-stage with the 4s with good result.

Then I switched to SA-31 and it makes wonder!

Could you compare SA-31with EMOTIVA mini-x for HE-5LE?
Thanks.

 

[Clemmaster]

I own (listened to) neither de 5LE nor the Mini-x
 
Prepoman might answer you, he is "the one who owned them all"

 

[shipsupt]

This bums me out so much!  If I didn't know how much FedEx killed us on the cost of that shipping it wouldn't bother me so much!  The best laid plans of... Oh well.  Glad you found a few things to hold you over, and thanks for the Audiogon link, looks interesting.  I'll be happier when I see those 5LE's arrive Monday!
 
 
 
Quote:

 
 
 
With that being said, what could be worse on a weekend than realizing your pair of HE-5LE headphones arrived at FedEx early on Friday morning, with a scheduled delivery of Monday?  To add fuel to the fire, I called FedEx to see if I simply couldn't change the delivery option to hold for pickup.  Well, FedEx explained that the package was still in the larger shipping container (truck?) and would be there until it would then be unloaded, sorted and placed on trucks for Monday's delivery schedule.  Yes.  Having to suffer through 72 hours of a pair of headphones less than 20 miles away, but kept under the control of FedEx from an eager receiver who wants to get his ears and hands on them?  But, I can remain contained.  I have my HE-4 headphones, which I, myself, truly truly love.  Since I listen to so many female vocalists, the HE-400 was just butchering my music.  It was bad.  Real bad.  Then, the HE-4 came into my life.  Freedom for my ears finally arrived!  The ladies now sing to me with their loving voices and none of the sibilants can be heard.  I have reached a great plateau here.  A great moment indeed.
 
As to music, I've learned that Audiogon is going to be rolling out monthly access to high definition tracks so one can test their gear out to the best potential.  Here is the link:
http://hub.audiogon.com/2013/02/22/wake-up-your-ears-with-audiogon/
 
Finally, last evening, my searching for female blues singers landed another catch.  Bettye LaVette.  Yes, she has a great voice - and even an album where she does covers of some of the famous British rock songs that we know and love from the likes of the Moody Blues, Pink Floyd and others.  Now this, my friends, is where I enjoy my headphones - through listening to newly found artists who have some great, great talent.  None of that Lady GaGa crap for me!!!

 

[captouch]

I don't know either.  However, a series of calculated moves over the past month was made in order to simplify the process on my end.  Some thoughtful consolidation.  I went through and determined that there was really no viable need for me to hold onto some of the $50 to $150 headphone wonders that I had.  While there were some "interesting" offerings in that price range, I found them to actually be a distraction, when looking at the big picture.  To me, the big picture was achieving a sound that I could finally love, and one that I could be content with.  The constant revolving door of buying, selling, buying more, selling more has been halted.  I have decided on my "keepers" which will be the HE-4, the HE-5LE and the HD-600.  Oh, and the HD-555 for when I sleep.  The 4, 5LE and 600 should be able to round out my various needs for my appetite when it comes to listening.

With that being said, what could be worse on a weekend than realizing your pair of HE-5LE headphones arrived at FedEx early on Friday morning, with a scheduled delivery of Monday?  To add fuel to the fire, I called FedEx to see if I simply couldn't change the delivery option to hold for pickup.  Well, FedEx explained that the package was still in the larger shipping container (truck?) and would be there until it would then be unloaded, sorted and placed on trucks for Monday's delivery schedule.  Yes.  Having to suffer through 72 hours of a pair of headphones less than 20 miles away, but kept under the control of FedEx from an eager receiver who wants to get his ears and hands on them?  But, I can remain contained.  I have my HE-4 headphones, which I, myself, truly truly love.  Since I listen to so many female vocalists, the HE-400 was just butchering my music.  It was bad.  Real bad.  Then, the HE-4 came into my life.  Freedom for my ears finally arrived!  The ladies now sing to me with their loving voices and none of the sibilants can be heard.  I have reached a great plateau here.  A great moment indeed.

As to music, I've learned that Audiogon is going to be rolling out monthly access to high definition tracks so one can test their gear out to the best potential.  Here is the link:
http://hub.audiogon.com/2013/02/22/wake-up-your-ears-with-audiogon/

Finally, last evening, my searching for female blues singers landed another catch.  Bettye LaVette.  Yes, she has a great voice - and even an album where she does covers of some of the famous British rock songs that we know and love from the likes of the Moody Blues, Pink Floyd and others.  Now this, my friends, is where I enjoy my headphones - through listening to newly found artists who have some great, great talent.  None of that Lady GaGa crap for me!!!

I'm quite interested in your thoughts about the HE-4 vs HE-5LE. You don't read much on the HE-4, and while I know about the differences between the HE-500 and HE-5LE since I owned them both and could compare, but not sure where the HE-4 fits in.

 

[preproman]

Clem, Wayne, Captouh and Luke can chime in with their thoughts as well.
 
First my order of preference goes like this:
 
HE-6 --> HE-5LE --> HE-4 --> HE-500 --> HE400.  Waiting to get a pair of HE-5s..
 
The one thing I've noticed about the HiFiman Headphones is the treble energy.  Some better than others but as a house sound IMO the HiFimans are known for their smooth velvet like treble from the HE-6 down to the HE-500s.  The HE-400s to me can be somewhat bothersome at times, like an ice pick jabbing you in the ear.
 
Ones decision on what HiFiman headphone to purchase can depend on what amp you have or what amp you are willing to get.
 
For the 6 / 5LE / 4s these all need some juice.  The 500s and 400s not as much but a good amp would still be recommended.   
 
HE-6:
I use the First Watt F1J http://www.firstwatt.com/f1.html   http://www.firstwatt.com/f1j.html and the PWD2 (DAC).  I've tried lots of headphone amps and speakers’ amps for this headphone.  It is truly a Rabbit hole that doesn't have an end.  Why?  It's because IMO the HE-6's are mini speakers on top of your head.  So headphone amps for me just don't do it.  I have not heard the Dark Start so I can't comment on that.  The 4 Channel B22, BHA-1 and the Mjolnir all drive the HE-6 pretty well.  However, sibilants can and most likely will be heard - the lack of dynamics, bass - low end extension, a restricted sound stage also the lack of detail will also pop up.  The current reserves will run out on these headphone amps.  They don't have the power supply to keep up with this headphone.
 
The HE-6 IMO is the clear winner when we talk about the treble, no doubt about it. The HE-6's treble is as good as one can get in headphones with its extremely good detail retrieval, smoothness, presence and clarity. All this without a hint of being sibilant. "With the right amp I must add".  Other very good strengths of the HE-6 are the center focus and imaging, instrument separation and soundstage accuracy.  The resolution is astonishing. 
 
The HE-6 midrange is forward sounding and very accurate, the same goes for the HE-5LE and HE-4. In terms of midrange details, I think however the HE-6 has a clear edge here, which can be attributed to its rather forward and authoritative nature as it makes it easier to pick out details.  The bass is visceral with lots of texture, tight with attack. It's some of the best bass out there.  Not that great for movies, it doesn't give you that low-end rumble.  
 
HE-5LE – HE-4 – HE-500
The HE-5LE and the HE-4 much like the HE-6 but on a lower scale. Does not scale as high. While it does require some juice, most powerful headphone amps work just fine with these.  I love these on my 4-channel fully balanced Beta 22and the departed Emotiva a-100 mini X.  So the BHA-1, Mjolnir, Audio-GD SA-31 and other amps with decent power should work great.
 
The 5LE seem to deliver the kind of balance that might suit classical, jazz and folk genres. Open, expansive, and airy – I would say towards being "neutral", some may call it treble tilted.  IMO it’s not.  When giving the right amount of juice the treble can be tamed.
 
The 5LEs and the 500s sound more different than alike IMO.  Some differences being less air for the 500s IMO less detail as well. The HE-4 has the most air.  There is definitely a mid bass (something) in the 500s that’s not present with the 5LE.  This gives the 500s that lush / warm sound signature not as evident in the 5LE and 4. 
 
The 500s compared to the 5LEs and the 4s are more rounded, sweet and warm. Not as detailed as the 5LEs or the 4s. Which isn't an unwelcome thing if warmth is what your looking for, knowing you’ll be sacrificing small bits of detail, speed and accuracy here and there.  The HE-500 is a very seductive headphone.  It’s very smooth and very intimate. The 500s has somewhat of a silky tone.  Must be the mids.   I call the 500s the smooth operator.  The 500s are compared a lot to the LCD-2.2s IMO the LCD-2.2 sound congested when compared to the HE-500s.  The 500s has that good treble energy the LCD-2.2 doesn’t.  Now the LCD-3 is a different story. 
 
The HE-4s are a real airy, detailed and accurate headphone; some will call it bright when compared to the others.  I call it a detail monster I love it for female vocals, snare drum, cymbals and high hats.  Now the HE-4s are brutal when it comes to revealing flaws.  As far as forgiveness goes I would say these are in last place.  You better have a well-recorded track with these. The HE-4s are not for everyone. It shows you EXACTLY what is on the recording – bad things and all.
 
The HE-4s excels in detail retrieval, speed, accuracy and instrument separation. .  The HE-4 is not a bass head headphone at all, the bass is right in line with the tone and the presentation of the music.  If your track calls for bass punch or bass impact or bass attack it will give it to you. The HE-4 won’t extend down as low as the others.  However, I think the bass on the HE-4 is right according to the music.
 
The HE-5LE and the HE-4 will give you all the micro detail without being clinical or shrill. The instrument separation is really good, it sounds like each instrument has air and space to breathe. 
 
The HE-500 has silky smooth highs and lush mids.  I’ll say the 500s are the warmest of the three, the HE-4s being the airy of the three.  While the 5LEs sits right in the middle.
 
 
The HE-400:
A very fun headphone.  To bad for it’s treble spikes and overwhelming bass at times.  For me it gives you bass when the track doesn’t even call for it.  This is the closest bass head headphone in the line up.  So if bass is what you want this headphone is for you.  These are very easy to drive.  So pretty much any amp will work with these. It sounds like the HE-400s are built around bass and the others in the line up have a better tonal balance overall.
 
All is “IMO”

 

[wje]

Quote:

This bums me out so much!  If I didn't know how much FedEx killed us on the cost of that shipping it wouldn't bother me so much!  The best laid plans of... Oh well.  Glad you found a few things to hold you over, and thanks for the Audiogon link, looks interesting.  I'll be happier when I see those 5LE's arrive Monday!
 

 
No guilt, my friend.  I'm all fine.  I just wanted to share one of those "this close" moments with the group.  Also, I went ahead and had it held at the FexEx location, so I can pick it up.  I think this is a better move as my wife was happy to see me sell so much stuff - I think I actually impressed her.  In fact, I'm quite sure I'd get about 50 questions on Monday after I got home as she gets home before me.  So, in the end, it really will work out for the best if Monday it is.
 
Plus, I should be sleeping this weekend during the spare time as the workweeks have been crazy - but, good too.  Taxes to finish up (good refund coming) so I adjusted my W-4 for this current year.  While the desire to have something like the HE-6 can be quite appealing, it has to be within a range where I can buy it with cash.  The college payments for the daughter chew up the free cash as we insist on no loans for school.
 
Finally, when one takes into consideration how much I've spent on buying, selling, losing money on audio, I could probably be on a nice cruise right now ... just not on a Carnival cruise lines vessel.  

 

[wje]

Darryl,
 
Thanks for your impressions that you've shared.  Though, at times, you sound like a weather man.  Warmth in the bass, middle-bass breeze, chilly treble, harsh forceful upper frequencies.  But, it's all good.  

  

 
 
I think if I had many, many headphones, I'd have a serious case of headphone ADD.  I wouldn't be able to focus on just a single one long enough to be able to write some extended comments on it, as I'd be eager to move onto the next one for an extensive listening session.

 

[Joong]

I think his space is wider and deeper and longer because he has more ideas to measure them.
When I see his equipment and phones, it is natural consequence of his intelligence operating on them.

 

[captouch]

Quote:

Clem, Wayne, Captouh and Luke can chime in with their thoughts as well.
 
First my order of preference goes like this:
 
HE-6 --> HE-5LE --> HE-4 --> HE-500 --> HE400.  Waiting to get a pair of HE-5s..
 
The one thing I've noticed about the HiFiman Headphones is the treble energy.  Some better than others but as a house sound IMO the HiFimans are known for their smooth velvet like treble from the HE-6 down to the HE-500s.  The HE-400s to me can be somewhat bothersome at times, like an ice pick jabbing you in the ear.
 
Ones decision on what HiFiman headphone to purchase can depend on what amp you have or what amp you are willing to get.
 
For the 6 / 5LE / 4s these all need some juice.  The 500s and 400s not as much but a good amp would still be recommended.   
 
HE-6:
I use the First Watt F1J http://www.firstwatt.com/f1.html   http://www.firstwatt.com/f1j.html and the PWD2 (DAC).  I've tried lots of headphone amps and speakers’ amps for this headphone.  It is truly a Rabbit hole that doesn't have an end.  Why?  It's because IMO the HE-6's are mini speakers on top of your head.  So headphone amps for me just don't do it.  I have not heard the Dark Start so I can't comment on that.  The 4 Channel B22, BHA-1 and the Mjolnir all drive the HE-6 pretty well.  However, sibilants can and most likely will be heard - the lack of dynamics, bass - low end extension, a restricted sound stage also the lack of detail will also pop up.  The current reserves will run out on these headphone amps.  They don't have the power supply to keep up with this headphone.
 
The HE-6 IMO is the clear winner when we talk about the treble, no doubt about it. The HE-6's treble is as good as one can get in headphones with its extremely good detail retrieval, smoothness, presence and clarity. All this without a hint of being sibilant. "With the right amp I must add".  Other very good strengths of the HE-6 are the center focus and imaging, instrument separation and soundstage accuracy.  The resolution is astonishing. 
 
The HE-6 midrange is forward sounding and very accurate, the same goes for the HE-5LE and HE-4. In terms of midrange details, I think however the HE-6 has a clear edge here, which can be attributed to its rather forward and authoritative nature as it makes it easier to pick out details.  The bass is visceral with lots of texture, tight with attack. It's some of the best bass out there.  Not that great for movies, it doesn't give you that low-end rumble.  
 
HE-5LE – HE-4 – HE-500
The HE-5LE and the HE-4 much like the HE-6 but on a lower scale. Does not scale as high. While it does require some juice, most powerful headphone amps work just fine with these.  I love these on my 4-channel fully balanced Beta 22and the departed Emotiva a-100 mini X.  So the BHA-1, Mjolnir, Audio-GD SA-31 and other amps with decent power should work great.
 
The 5LE seem to deliver the kind of balance that might suit classical, jazz and folk genres. Open, expansive, and airy – I would say towards being "neutral", some may call it treble tilted.  IMO it’s not.  When giving the right amount of juice the treble can be tamed.
 
The 5LEs and the 500s sound more different than alike IMO.  Some differences being less air for the 500s IMO less detail as well. The HE-4 has the most air.  There is definitely a mid bass (something) in the 500s that’s not present with the 5LE.  This gives the 500s that lush / warm sound signature not as evident in the 5LE and 4. 
 
The 500s compared to the 5LEs and the 4s are more rounded, sweet and warm. Not as detailed as the 5LEs or the 4s. Which isn't an unwelcome thing if warmth is what your looking for, knowing you’ll be sacrificing small bits of detail, speed and accuracy here and there.  The HE-500 is a very seductive headphone.  It’s very smooth and very intimate. The 500s has somewhat of a silky tone.  Must be the mids.   I call the 500s the smooth operator.  The 500s are compared a lot to the LCD-2.2s IMO the LCD-2.2 sound congested when compared to the HE-500s.  The 500s has that good treble energy the LCD-2.2 doesn’t.  Now the LCD-3 is a different story. 
 
The HE-4s are a real airy, detailed and accurate headphone; some will call it bright when compared to the others.  I call it a detail monster I love it for female vocals, snare drum, cymbals and high hats.  Now the HE-4s are brutal when it comes to revealing flaws.  As far as forgiveness goes I would say these are in last place.  You better have a well-recorded track with these. The HE-4s are not for everyone. It shows you EXACTLY what is on the recording – bad things and all.
 
The HE-4s excels in detail retrieval, speed, accuracy and instrument separation. .  The HE-4 is not a bass head headphone at all, the bass is right in line with the tone and the presentation of the music.  If your track calls for bass punch or bass impact or bass attack it will give it to you. The HE-4 won’t extend down as low as the others.  However, I think the bass on the HE-4 is right according to the music.
 
The HE-5LE and the HE-4 will give you all the micro detail without being clinical or shrill. The instrument separation is really good, it sounds like each instrument has air and space to breathe. 
 
The HE-500 has silky smooth highs and lush mids.  I’ll say the 500s are the warmest of the three, the HE-4s being the airy of the three.  While the 5LEs sits right in the middle.
 
 
The HE-400:
A very fun headphone.  To bad for it’s treble spikes and overwhelming bass at times.  For me it gives you bass when the track doesn’t even call for it.  This is the closest bass head headphone in the line up.  So if bass is what you want this headphone is for you.  These are very easy to drive.  So pretty much any amp will work with these. It sounds like the HE-400s are built around bass and the others in the line up have a better tonal balance overall.
 
All is “IMO”

 
Should be a sticky for Hifiman headphone selection Prepro - awesome job!  I've only had the HE-5LE and HE-500, but I agree with all your observations on these two cans, and reinforces that the 5LE is the best "budget" choice for me.  I would add that I think the HE-500 instrument separation is excellent, subject to the caveat that I do believe there is some detail missing esp on the high-end.  So despite it being lush, silky, etc, the ability to isolate/pick out individual instruments is really good on these.  It's something I perhaps take for granted on the 5LE's because they are by default more airy and detailed, but it did surprise me that while being full/lush/warm, you don't get congestion/blending of details/instruments on HE-500.  The negatives to me on the 500 are just the loss of detail in treble area and that sense that it's giving a fuller/lusher presentation than really exists on the recording.
 
While I still love the cans, more recently I've ventured into full size speaker audio and tubes.  But if I want to upgrade cans in the future, sounds like HE-6 should definitely be on my list.
 
Thanks for taking the time to summarize the lineup.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

 
Should be a sticky for Hifiman headphone selection Prepro - awesome job!  I've only had the HE-5LE and HE-500, but I agree with all your observations on these two cans, and reinforces that the 5LE is the best "budget" choice for me.  I would add that I think the HE-500 instrument separation is excellent, subject to the caveat that I do believe there is some detail missing esp on the high-end.  So despite it being lush, silky, etc, the ability to isolate/pick out individual instruments is really good on these.  It's something I perhaps take for granted on the 5LE's because they are by default more airy and detailed, but it did surprise me that while being full/lush/warm, you don't get congestion/blending of details/instruments on HE-500.  The negatives to me on the 500 are just the loss of detail in treble area and that sense that it's giving a fuller/lusher presentation than really exists on the recording.
 
While I still love the cans, more recently I've ventured into full size speaker audio and tubes.  But if I want to upgrade cans in the future, sounds like HE-6 should definitely be on my list.
 
Thanks for taking the time to summarize the lineup.

That's likely due to the treble colouration of HE500, where it dips in the upper treble ~15kHz to minimize tizz (thus making the treble 'sweet'-sounding, without dimming it the slightest), but consequently it removes a bit of treble micro-detail. A worthy trade-off IMO, for those looking for a fatigue-free treble that is still very much there in quantity.
 
You could spot the dip in the upper treble here:
 
 

 
The dip around 5kHz could contribute to your experience as well, although that shouldn't do much more than making music a bit more laid-back than a perfectly neutral sound.

 

[captouch]

I'm guessing more likely the 5kHz, since at least with online sound files, I found I can't hear much above 13kHz.  Aging ears I guess. . . 

Quote:

That's likely due to the treble colouration of HE500, where it dips in the upper treble ~15kHz to minimize tizz (thus making the treble 'sweet'-sounding, without dimming it the slightest), but consequently it removes a bit of treble micro-detail. A worthy trade-off IMO, for those looking for a fatigue-free treble that is still very much there in quantity.
 
You could spot the dip in the upper treble here:
 
 

 
The dip around 5kHz could contribute to your experience as well, although that shouldn't do much more than making music a bit more laid-back than a perfectly neutral sound.

 

[Joong]

I try to familarize myself here on Head-fi, where all things are understood by set of all qualitiative measures, whereas I have been doing all analytical process that is required by the technological industry in particalular.
The graph of Jerg can bridge the 2 different world by indtroduction of measure, and tries to explan the reason why we feel like that.
 
The decibel / frequency dimension I can understand.
What is the meaning of ms ( time delay or phase ?) ?
Could you explain? jerg?

 

[jerg]

Quote:

I try to familarize myself here on Head-fi, where all things are understood by set of all qualitiative measures, whereas I have been doing all analytical process that is required by the technological industry in particalular.
The graph of Jerg can bridge the 2 different world by indtroduction of measure, and tries to explan the reason why we feel like that.
 
The decibel / frequency dimension I can understand.
What is the meaning of ms ( time delay or phase ?) ?
Could you explain? jerg?

It's a cumulative spectral decay plot, aka waterfall plot. Here's a site explaining it:
 
http://www.libinst.com/wattlar.htm