[DavidMahler]

glad I could help..........if this is your first Mahler symphony, it may be a lot to take in.....one sort of has to build up to the 9th......almost as if Mahler's symphonic cycle is a story and the 9th is its climax / ending. Even still, I hope you can enjoy it as I do. When listening to it for the first time, I suggest hearing it all the way through with little interruption.

-Dave

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DavidMahler /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the 1st symphony I choose Bernstein's final recording of the work with the Concertgebouw. For the 2nd I choose Zubin Mehta's 1975 recording with Vienna. Christa Ludwig's performance is one of the best and the orchestra is just amazing on this! For the 3rd I have two favorites........John Barbirolli's with Halle Orchestra on BBC. But I find myself listening more often to Riccardo Chailly's with the Concertgebouw which all in all is probably a slightly less potent performance, but the sound quality is ideal and the orchestra is just incredible. For the 4th I have some weird opinions.......Lorin Maazel's recording with Vienna and Kathleen Battle has the finest vocal ever recorded for this work, but the conducting is just awful and so I never can listen to the symphony as a whole when I choose this recording. George Szell is often a favorite, and definitely a great allround recording. But the one I've learned to like the most is Michael Tilson Thomas's recording with San Francisco..........The third movement is definitely "too slow" BUT its perfectly played and moves me more than any other version.....the final movement is sung wonderfully as well. For the 5th.......There is only one recording I will listen to. Rudolf Barshai with the German Youth Orchestra is not only my favorite recording of this work, but in fact I feel it is the finest Mahler recording I've ever heard. No joke. For the 6th I love Thomas Sanderling's out of print recording. However, I think I've never heard an awful version of this symphony......all of the ones I've heard please me to a major degree.......Sanderling is just my favorite. For the 7th....I think Bernstein's original on Sony with NYPD is the best performed, but the recording bothers me a lot because the sound has no center....almost like the Stereo Sgt Pepper or Revolver, with the vocals on one side and the drums on the other.....with the Bernstein 7th, the instruments sound like theyre in different rooms. I like Barenboim's a lot, but I even prefer Gielen's wonderful approach with the Baden Baden For the 8th....my least favorite Mahler symphony......I love Chailly's monumental performance. Why is this my least favorite.....because while its a wonderfully written piece, it is Mahler at his most Grandiose, an ingredient which Mahler's music is often inherently borne with. It's just a little too big for me, but I still appreciate it! For Das Lied von der Erde.........the greatest alto to ever sing this piece is/was Janet Baker, but I never thought she met a conductor which could match her vision.....this includes Kubelik, Haitink, and Leppard. My favorite recording of this work is Klemperer's with Wunderlich and Ludwig. The best soloist combo ever for this work AND the conducting is brilliant. Yes the inner movements are a little slower than usual, but it doesn't hurt the overall feel whatsoever. For the 9th, my favorite piece of music, I have learned to adore Seiji Ozawa's recent recording on Sony. This CD is not available in the USA, not even on Amazon..... I bought it from HMV Japan......if you are a lover of this work, you MUST try to acquire this performance. It is unparalleled in my opinion. For the 10th......Simon Rattle owns this work. His second recording with Berlin is a wonderful attempt at this Semi-Mahler work.

Top 5 Mahler list:

1) Bernstein/Sony + Kubelik/Audite + Solti/LSO/Decca Legends + Gielen/Hanssler + Abbado/CSO/DG
*
2) Solti/CSO/Decca + Bernstein/Sony + Mehta/Decca Legends + Litton/Delos + Kaplan/Conifer + Rattle/EMI GROTC
*
3) Horenstein/Unicorn + Bernstein/Sony + Tennstedt/EMI + Barbirolli/BBC + Kondrashin/Melodiya
*
4) Szell/Sony + Inbal/Dennon + Levine/RCA + Renier/RCA + Welser Most/EMI
*
5) Bernstein/DG + Kondrashin/Melodiya + Sinopoli/DG + Gatti/Musical Heritage + Kubelik/Audite
*
6) Mitropoulos/EMI Great Conductors + Eiji Oue/Fontec + Thomas Sanderling/Real Sound + Bernstein/Sony + + Kondrashin/Melodiya
*
7) Kondrashin/Melodiya + Bernstein/Sony + Kubelik/Audite + Abbado/CSO/DG + Barenboim/Teldec
*
8) Horenstein/BBC Legends + Solti/Decca Legends + Bertini/EMI + Bernstein/Sony + Rattle/EMI
*
DLVDE) Klemperer/EMI GROTC
*
9) Ancerl/Supraphon Gold + Bernstein/BPO (live 1979) + Kubelik/Audite + Kondrashin/Melodiya + Karajan/DG Live

Fun to discuss lists

1) Bernstein is exceptional here but I prefer his early NYPO/Sony version, the only later DG remake I think he noticeably improved upon his original set was his VPO/DG 5th, but I would never argue with Bernstein/DG as someones top pick

2)I am also huge fan of Mehta/VPO which ranks as 3rd best for me, but no one has surpassed the monumental statement made by Solti/CSO here for me.

3)Stay with the old warhorse Horenstein/LSO, something magical here that Horenstein taps into and his long sustained build up to a
very powerful climax remains the reference for me, Horenstein is master of the "long line"

4)Another old warhorse Szell/Sony 4th remains at the top but Helen Donath with Inbal/Denon has almost ideal "childlike" vocals (Kathleen Battle perhaps best vocals of all but Maazel pacing is unacceptable for reference version)

5)Bernstein/VPO/DG 5th is the best performance of his later DG set and by chance the weakest of his early NYPO/Sony set, so I always tell people to get the compltete Bernstein/Sony set then supplement with the 2CD Bernstein/DG Panorama Mahler 1,5 for an ideal Bernstein complete set. I do have the Barshai also and rank it very high but not quite in the top 5 list, the Sinopoli/DG is an amazing performance and the highlight of his complete set

6)Mitropoulos/EMI Great Conductors is perhaps the most intense and dramatic Mahler performance of any Mahler symphony I have heard to date, so for me it leads a very competitive field, an unforgetable experience. For those who like a more balanced approach the Sanderling and Oue performances have better sound while still maintaining great intensity, both are great but unfortunately both are very hard to find now

7)Kondrashin/Melodiya weaves this difficult tapestry like a magician, I like this better than his later Tahra label performance which is more restrained. Bernstein/Sony has a special magic here also, this symphony can often sound confused and weak in lesser hands. For budget price the Abbado/CSO can hardly be faulted.......I almost always prefer the older Abbado/CSO performances to any of his newer BPO/DG versions

8)I go with Horenstein/BBC Legends for 8th for the same reasons I like him for the 3rd, building and sustaining the long line in part II.
A 1959 stereo live performance at Royal Albert Hall, virtually no recordings existed for this work when Horenstein performed it in 1959 but Horenstein connects with the spiritual levels of this work like no other for me. The steady build up to final climax yields an unforgetable moment of classical music as Royal Albert Hall reverberates for many seconds after last thunderous note is played, very very few modern versions come even close to matching this for me

DLVDE)This is actually pretty easy call for Klemeprer/EMI GROTC, Ludwig gives her usual great performance but Fritz Wunderlich owns this work, haven't heard any other male vocalist that can seriously challange him. The GROTC sound remaster reveals another layer of fine detail and subtle nueance, a real winner

9)With all the great 9ths out there the Ancerl/Supraphon surfaces a few years ago and sweeps the field, how many other great mahler works lay hidden in record company vaults. I am convinced after hearing the 1938 Walter/VPO 9th that Ancerl captures the spirit of Mahler as he himself would perform the work and these modern 90 minute performances are an unfortunate distortion occuring over time making tempos ever slower. A good rule of thumb for me is if it takes 2CDs for performance it will not be a reference 9th for me



BTW did you ever get the Kondrashin/Melodyia set? (missing 2,8 symphonies) I rarely hear it mentioned but it has some great performances

 

[tonym]

What do you think of the LSO/ Gergiev David?

 

[DavidMahler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonym /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you think of the LSO/ Gergiev David?

Good question. I have the 6th, 7th and 1st by Gergiev..... I'll be honest and say that I haven't devoted enough attention to these CDs yet. I was impressed by the 6th. I am a very big Gergiev fan in general, and I tend to like Russian approaches to Mahler. The LSO is a nice balance for Mahler because I don't know what the Kirov Orchestra could have done with Mahler's music. The sound quality of LSO series generally I find very dry and it makes me less inclined to listen to those series.

I am very interested in seeing what Gergiev does with the 2nd. I think that symphony may suit him well.

I think of the many cycles being either started or completed right now (Tilson Thomas, Jansons, Gergiev, Zinman, Zander) Jansons impresses me a lot, but partially because the Concertgebouw is my favorite orchestra, and also.......Tilson Thomas can often be very interesting, I just bought his new Das Lied today, haven't heard it yet.

 

[mbhaub]

I've been sampling the LSO/Gergiev cautiously. Mostly because initial critical reviews were not favorable but my usually trusted sources. So I did get 6 & 7. The 6th seems to suit him very well and I really like it, not as much as the Philly/Eschenbach, but it's still excellent. The 7th oddly enough works well, too, and the playing of the LSO live is unbelievable. They couldn't have chosen a better orchestra to make these live recordings. That's not to say it's perfect, but still superb in almost all ways.

I tried the Zinman. Very disappointing. The sound was fine, it's just that Mahler doesn't seem to be Zinman's thing. Thomas I have mixed feelings about. He seems too disconnected somehow. The 7th was good. The 2nd not so good. The 5th had weird sound balance. He's actually a really good Mahler conductor as his earlier 3 & 7 and Das Klagende Lied show. Somehow though, something's missing in the SFO versions.
Jansons I loath in Mahler -- too many liberties, too many arrogant personal touches. It may be fine live, but for repeated listening, not. I keep his 2nd on Chandos around to show people how badly Mahler can be done when a conductor isn't sympathetic to the style.
Zander. Where's he been? Where's the 7th? In general I find the accompanying disks explaining the music more enlightening than any of his performances. They're good, but no more. And the sound sure hasn't lived up to the usual high Telarc standard.

So from my standpoint, we still need a top-notch Mahler set in sacd with great playing, singing, conducting and sound. Since Fisher apparently won't be doing a cycle, what's out there? In my dreams, Levine/Boston in sacd from RCA.

 

[yashicaman]

Wow. What a great thread! I've got a few Mahler cd's and like Mahler's music immensely, but I've not plumbed the depths of the different versions of Mahler that are available. I know the importance of different versions and rejoice in the variety of interpretations that are available.

I think that I'll revisit my Mahler collection and groove to his beat. And maybe order up a few new Mahler cds to enhance my listening pleasure.

Cheers!

 

[DarkAngel]

Just an observation that very few Mahler recordings I have heard made in last 20 years that can make my top 5 list like Barenboim/Warner 7,9 and maybe a couple from the Geilen set

A sad commentary for current generation of Mahler conductors...........

 

[DavidMahler]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just an observation that very few Mahler recordings I have heard made in last 20 years that can make my top 5 list like Barenboim/Warner 7,9 and maybe a couple from the Geilen set A sad commentary for current generation of Mahler conductors...........

I like Barenboim as well. In fact when I see all the Mahler Symphonies in order at Carnegie Hall this upcoming May....I will be seeing Barenboim with the Staatskapelle Berlin doing the 7th and 9th, 10th Adagio (also Das Lied, the 5th and 1st).....Pierre Boulez will conduct the remaining works.

Barenboim is an interesting Mahlerian in that he didn't conduct Mahler as a youngster.

I don't all Mahlerians are bad right now....I think Abbado is a great Mahlerian, I think Rattle often gets it right, I think Yoel Levi can be quite good, I think Rudolf Barshai released the greatest Mahler recording of all time just a decade ago. I think Ozawa's doing some good things.......

I think the Mahler market is flooded with mundane releases, but there's quite a few good things going on.

DarkAngel, I was always under the impression that you adored Klemperer's 2nd (GROTC) but I notice that didn't make it to your list of favorite 2nds.....do I have you confused with someone else?

 

[mbhaub]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Just an observation that very few Mahler recordings I have heard made in last 20 years that can make my top 5 list like Barenboim/Warner 7,9 and maybe a couple from the Geilen set A sad commentary for current generation of Mahler conductors...........

I think the problem is that too many young conductors aren't ready, willing, or able to specialize. They have to do it all, or think they do. Our local conductor Michael Christie tries to, but it's just not working. In the olden days conductors had areas they felt closer too, and they excelled. Ormandy was in his element with the late romantics and nationalists. But he was not comfortable or good with Mozart, Beethoven, Haydn or Bach -- unless it was garishly orchestrated. Neeme Jarvi is at his best with the Russian and Soviet schools, as well as the nordic composers. But he's lost in Brahms and much of the German school. (Although he gave an Eroica of a lifetime in Detroit that I was lucky enough to attend.)

The other problem is one that has become ominously obvious. The "great" conductors, many of them, actually knew the composers, their direct associates and students. I think that line has been broken, and too much tradition and too many tricks of the trade have been lost. That's why those scratchy b/w videos of the masters conducting will become more and more imporant to preserve how music used to be made. Too often now, the students coming out of the conservatories are too technically trained in the search of perfection, and the "music" is being ignored while the printed notes are the law. There are some youngsters who give hope and promise.

 

[DarkAngel]

DM
I do like Klemperer/EMI GROTC Mahler 2nd very much especially in the new remastered GROTC edition, lies just outside the top 5 versions I list.

Abbado for me in many ways is losing ground in his Mahler performances, I almost always like his 1970/80 performances with CSO/VPO to the new BPO releases........much in the same way I prefer the early Sony Bernstein Mahler to his later DG series. I will say the new Abbado Mahler 9 is quite good but I can find one of his older ones I like as much or better.

MB
Good points you make...........as I recall though you do not like conductors that stray from the written score and put thier own stamp on a piece. For instance many Bernstein critics while admiring his Mahler work say that it is more Bernstein's version of Mahler than actual Mahler etc.

 

[JayG]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif The other problem is one that has become ominously obvious. The "great" conductors, many of them, actually knew the composers, their direct associates and students. I think that line has been broken, and too much tradition and too many tricks of the trade have been lost.

I agree with most of what you said, and I even agree with your diagnosis of part of the problem as quoted above. However, I think there is a more important and troubling source of this very problem, which is that the majority of the classical music audience no longer has any appetite for new music. It's hardly fair to complain that current conductors don't personally know the composers whose music they conduct when the only music the audiences want to hear are the standard rep from Bach to Shostakovich (and even he is a stretch to this day in many halls). If only more emphasis were placed on music composed by members of the same or at least within one or two generations of the currently performing conductors and musicians, I'm sure many of them would have interesting, insightful and personal things to say with their interpretations.

Of course Bach, Beethoven and Mozart should never fade from the rep, but the fact that no conductors have lived for a very long time who actually knew those musical giants hasn't stopped many of them from delivering good and even great performances of their work. But if we want new, "legendary" recordings, like Kondrashin's Shostakovich, Walter's Mahler, or Boulez's Messiaen, we are searching for the wrong thing. We don't need new Kondrashins, Walters, or Boulezs, we need new Shostakovichs, Mahlers, and Messiaens.

 

[DavidMahler]

I'll be honest.....Bruno Walter's Mahler was never my favorite. I know....blasphemy

 

[JayG]

It's not my favorite either.

He was just a good example of a revered conductor who had the advantage of knowing many of the composers whose work he conducted.

 

[DavidMahler]

I adore Walter's Brahms cycle though. His Beethoven is really good too.

 

[DarkAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbhaub /img/forum/go_quote.gif So from my standpoint, we still need a top-notch Mahler set in sacd with great playing, singing, conducting and sound. Since Fisher apparently won't be doing a cycle, what's out there? In my dreams, Levine/Boston in sacd from RCA.

I always wondered why Szell with such a high quality 4,6 on Sony never tried to complete a Mahler set? Especially with his contemporary Bernstein achieving such popularity for his Mahler set......maybe in a record vault somewhere........